#1
I've searched all over the forum but I'm still a little confuzzled...

I've got this great Mesa F-30 combo and I'd like to expand it a little by buying a cabinet for it.
It'll probably be a 2x12 (I don't really need a 4x12, and it's to big to fit in my room). And if I can get my hands on one, it'll be an Avatar cab (live in a place where they don't ship 'em to *sob*).

But, now, what are the do's an don'ts in choosing the speakers for it, and which speakers should I get edgeways?
I know that the wattage of the cab has to be higher than the wattage on my combo. But is it as simple as adding the wattage of the 2 speakers and making sure it's higher? Also, can I hook up the cab as well as the speaker in the combo, so that I'll have actually 3x12?
I play mostly Blues (the heavier, rockier kind), Rock and Hard Rock and very rarely venture into Metal, but only very rarely. I found the tone selector gizmo on the Celestion website a bit niffy-giffy and not really suited for comparison.

The bands I look up to are Led Zep, AC/DC, the Rolling Stones, SRV, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, etc...

Also, beside my question, are there other things I should pay attention to when I purchase my cabinet? Or maybe some alternatives to the Avatar?

Grtz.
#2
As long as cab RMS is larger then the amp output RMS, + matching impedance, you'll be fine.
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#3
For the musics you listed.
I'd buy a 2x12 with some warehouse speakers greenback copies.
Almost all the bands you listed used greenbacks.
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#4
You don't add the wattage of the speakers. If you have 2 50W speakers then your cab is gonna be 50W. Also you're gonna need to match the ohms, I don't know the rules of mixing ohms so I'm just gonna say that if the amp's rated at 4 ohms you want a 4 ohm cab, 8 ohms to 8 ohms, etc.
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#5
Quote by Sonicxlover
You don't add the wattage of the speakers. If you have 2 50W speakers then your cab is gonna be 50W. Also you're gonna need to match the ohms, I don't know the rules of mixing ohms so I'm just gonna say that if the amp's rated at 4 ohms you want a 4 ohm cab, 8 ohms to 8 ohms, etc.

Except you got the first part wrong. If you have 2 50W speakers then your cab is gonna be 100W.
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#6
Quote by Sonicxlover
You don't add the wattage of the speakers. If you have 2 50W speakers then your cab is gonna be 50W. Also you're gonna need to match the ohms, I don't know the rules of mixing ohms so I'm just gonna say that if the amp's rated at 4 ohms you want a 4 ohm cab, 8 ohms to 8 ohms, etc.


Wrong.

2 50 watt speakers will give the cabinet 100 watts total handling capacity.


Edit: To the TS, also make sure you buy a cab that matches the impedance of your head. Some amps have taps for 4, 8, 16 ohms, others don't. So thats something that needs to be checked first.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 9, 2008,
#7
Okay, thanks for the responses.

I did some research and found out that the impedance of your cab depends on how you wire your speakers. In series: if you wire 2 4 ohms together, you get 8 ohms and if you wire them in parallel, you get 2 ohms.
Don't know if I'm right, but it seems that you just have to add the wattage together, but that the weakest one is the deciding factor.
E.g. 2 60 watts give, 120 watts. A 60W and a 30W give only 60W etc...


EDIT: Also, Open or closed back?


Grtz.
Last edited by MesaBoogieF30 at Aug 9, 2008,
#8
Quote by MesaBoogieF30
Okay, thanks for the responses.

I did some research and found out that the impedance of your cab depends on how you wire your speakers. In series: if you wire 2 4 ohms together, you get 8 ohms and if you wire them in parallel, you get 2 ohms.
Don't know if I'm right, but it seems that you just have to add the wattage together, but that the weakest one is the deciding factor.
E.g. 2 60 watts give, 120 watts. A 60W and a 30W give only 60W etc...


EDIT: Also, Open or closed back?


Grtz.


Yes! thats absolutely right. But chances are, your amp will not be running a load of 2 ohms. Here is the rule for impedance.

Two resistors (R1, R2) in parallel yields a total resistance (Rt):

1/Rt=1/R1+1/R2

Two resistors in series yields Rt=R1+R2. Simple enough.

You just need to add the speakers wattages. People mix and max wattages all the time to get different sounds.

Open back and closed back is a matter of preference, closed back gives you a different projection more focused bass response. Open back will give you a more dispersed sound with more treble response.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 9, 2008,
#9
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#10
I have a mesa f 50 combo that has terrible tube rattle when i turn it up kinda loud. So i'm planing on buying a 2x12 closed back avatar cab with 2 vintage 30's. My amp had 2 4 ohms and 1 8 ohms that's powering the speaker in the combo. What ohms would i need to have the cab wired as? Also I plan on buying a mesa roadster, tremoverb or splawn head in the future which i think are all 100 watts. Could the avatar cab be used for these heads? thanks.
#11
I have a Peavey 120 watt head that i'm getting an Avatar 120 watt 2x12 cab for.


Is this a problem? I don't want to blow up my amp, if i crank it.
#12
Thats my thought exactly. Though i think it wont as long as you dont play cranked on 10 for real long.
#13
Quote by injected
I have a Peavey 120 watt head that i'm getting an Avatar 120 watt 2x12 cab for.


Is this a problem? I don't want to blow up my amp, if i crank it.


If you don't crank it, it maybe ok, I'd go for a 4x12 just to be safe. Remember amps are rated for clean watts.
#15
Quote by al112987
If you don't crank it, it maybe ok, I'd go for a 4x12 just to be safe. Remember amps are rated for clean watts.

And speakers are usually rated very conservatively. Result?

You can use a 120 watt head with a cab rated for 120 watts.

I don't think the cab makers are THAT stupid, you know. I think some old Marshalls came with cabs that were undermatched compared to the head - it gave them a specific tone, and no, they didn't all blow up.
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#16
Quote by Fama
And speakers are usually rated very conservatively. Result?

You can use a 120 watt head with a cab rated for 120 watts.

I don't think the cab makers are THAT stupid, you know. I think some old Marshalls came with cabs that were undermatched compared to the head - it gave them a specific tone, and no, they didn't all blow up.


You realize that there are amps that could put out twice their rated wattage when dimed? It depends on the amps and how a make rates their amps output power.

Cab makers simply put speakers in a cabinet and add their power handling capacities.

And no, old Marshall heads did not come with undermatched cabinets. Marshall cabinets have traditionally used celestion greenbacks since the JTM45 came out. A 4x12 cabinet with G12m greenbacks is 100 watts at least, and 120 watts if using G12h greenbacks.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 10, 2008,
#17
Quote by al112987
You realize that there are amps that could put out twice their rated wattage when dimed? It depends on the amps and how a make rates their amps output power.

Well, yeah, as we all know, Celestion is a stupid company which knows nothing about guitar amps and thus gives out false info.
Quote by Celestion website

Speakers must be capable of taking at least as much power as the amp puts out, or you risk damaging them. So, for a single speaker, pick one with a power rating the same or higher than the amp itself. For a twin speaker combo the minimum speaker power rating is half that of the amp and for a cabinet with four speakers it will be a quarter of the amp's max. power output.

Quote by al112987

Cab makers simply put speakers in a cabinet and add their power handling capacities.

I do admit that I used the wrong word, I ment speaker makers. That's just nitpicking tho.
Quote by al112987

And no, old Marshall heads did not come with undermatched cabinets. Marshall cabinets have traditionally used celestion greenbacks since the JTM45 came out. A 4x12 cabinet with G12m greenbacks is 100 watts at least, and 120 watts if using G12h greenbacks.

Oh well, I might be wrong here. I've just read that argument being used on these forums sometime, don't remember which amp. Might have been a combo? Dunno.
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#19
Maybe its just me, I always prefer to use a cabinet with low enough wattage to push the speakers, but not so low that I blow them out when I crank my amp.
#20
TS - look in your F-series manual (if you cant find it its on the mesa site) there is really useful information on how to hook up cabs, and how to safely mismatch impedeance levels. Good luck
#21
120 watt amps with 2x12's can easily be paired up.

I wouldn't get one with two 60 watt V30's though. I like a little buffer zone so 120 watts into a 120 watt cab would worry me when I crank it.

A better choice would be a 2x12 loaded with two 70 watt V30's for 140 watts. Like Mesa uses now. Or two 75 watt G12T-75's at 150 watts.
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#22
I feel bad for threadjacking. sorry TS... lol

I found an Avatar 4x12 with V30's rated at 240 watts for the same price as the 2x12 with v30's. It's going for $300.

needless to say, i think i'm still going to get the 2x12, because a half stack is simply too damn heavy. it can fit in my room for sure, but no way in hell am i going to lug a 4x12 everywhere to band practice.

I wish it was that easy though.
#23
Ok.
People who are continually saying in threads, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T CRANK IT.
no.
NO.
NO.
NO!

1:Speakers are rated CONSERVATIVELY just for this reason: To make it tard proof...but apparently that is impossible. Bandwagon more plx.
2: Amps ARE rated for clean wattage. Very true. Too bad it doesnt matter. why? Because speakers are rated CONSERVATIVELY. Speakers can typically handle DOUBLE their wattage before they blow. Why arent 25 watt speakers rated for 50? So that this conversation never happens.
3: For those who are buying 120 watt heads and are worried about 120 watt cabs:
You're an idiot. Unless it is a solid state head, i would like to see you run a 120 tube watt head at full volume. Not just full master, full channel AND master. Hearing damage very quickly. Palm mutes can probably stop pacemakers at that volume.
Even if you did, The speakers are rated conservatively. A typical 120 watt cab can probably handle 200+ RMS. So if ye 120 watt head is putting out 160 watts on overdrive channel fully cranked.
You're covered...


That is all.
Gear:
Ibanez RG550 20th RFR
Traynor YCV50
Fender FMT HH Tele
Mesa Boogie 2ch Triple Rectifier
2 1x12 custom Theile cabs
ISP Decimator
Krank Kranshaft
Boss BF-2 Flanger
BBE Sonic Maximizer
#24
^^Thanks, I feel alot more confident getting a 2x12 now. I've just played a 15 watt SS for the whole time ive been playing and i'm not really sure about all the infos i need to play with head/cabs
#26
Quote by kool98769
Ok.
People who are continually saying in threads, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T CRANK IT.
no.
NO.
NO.
NO!

1:Speakers are rated CONSERVATIVELY just for this reason: To make it tard proof...but apparently that is impossible. Bandwagon more plx.
2: Amps ARE rated for clean wattage. Very true. Too bad it doesnt matter. why? Because speakers are rated CONSERVATIVELY. Speakers can typically handle DOUBLE their wattage before they blow. Why arent 25 watt speakers rated for 50? So that this conversation never happens.
3: For those who are buying 120 watt heads and are worried about 120 watt cabs:
You're an idiot. Unless it is a solid state head, i would like to see you run a 120 tube watt head at full volume. Not just full master, full channel AND master. Hearing damage very quickly. Palm mutes can probably stop pacemakers at that volume.
Even if you did, The speakers are rated conservatively. A typical 120 watt cab can probably handle 200+ RMS. So if ye 120 watt head is putting out 160 watts on overdrive channel fully cranked.
You're covered...


That is all.
Thanks for gracing us "idiots" with your presence.
Speakers start to breakup quite fast a high volumes. Well before their peak power handling. When a 120 watt amps is driving a 120 watt cab hard, at high volume, too much speaker distortion can cause an amps tone to flub out and become unfocused. This is what a player should be concerned about. Not blowing anything up.
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MESA 412
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#27
I have never heard that speakers are made to handle twice their handling capacity.
#28
They can, but that's before they explode..

I'm just worried about preserving tone. i should be fine anyways