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#1
how much money would it cost to buy hotter tubes and have them replaced?

this is what i have now-


power- 2 – 6L6 / 5881
pre amp-4 – 12AX7
reverb-1 – 12AX7

and what would be good to increase the gain while still keeping a good tone?
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Jackson Dinky DKMGT
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#2
you want more gain???????
those are the tubes that the mesa rectifier series uses man
u can´t get hotter tubes.... i think
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#4
Are they out of juice? You can get tubes with earlier breakup, check the JJ website. www.eurotubes.com

I reccomend Tung-sols for preamp tubes (that's what i'm sticking in the C30 when I retube it)

You might also want to bias them hot (won't last you as long though)

You may want to upgrade your speaker cabinet also
Ever considered an Overdrive pedal?
#5
well, ive only had the amp since april, and my guitar has active EMGs(i checked the batteryn not the issue), but its lacking a bit. i like it but the distortion from my MG is more metal, its just that the tone sucks(from the MG).

no i dont want a pedal, and would chaning my speaker make that much of a difference?
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Jackson Dinky DKMGT
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#8
Than Change the speaker in the combo.. I'll reccomend a Warehouse Reaper speaker (good for price and great voice for metal) remember once installed, it needs to be worn in.
#10
Quote by al112987
Just get a clean boost or overdrive pedal.



Correct. 12AX7's are the highest gain preamp tube made. Sure some may have a hair more than other 12ax7's but nothing noticeible. The best way to add more gain is an overdrive pedal.
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#11
so if i get a pedal, would that still keep the tone of the amp or would it just be the tone of the pedal? b/c if thats the case, i dont see the point of me having a tube amp

also, could it be that i rarely keep the volume higher than 1, sumtimes 2?
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Jackson Dinky DKMGT
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Peavey 6505+ 112
#12
Quote by seizetheday1103

also, could it be that i rarely keep the volume higher than 1, sumtimes 2?


You just solved your own problem. You've gotta crank it.

but if your just playing at bedroom levels get an OD.
Sig What?
#13
Quote by seizetheday1103
so if i get a pedal, would that still keep the tone of the amp or would it just be the tone of the pedal? b/c if thats the case, i dont see the point of me having a tube amp

also, could it be that i rarely keep the volume higher than 1, sumtimes 2?


This makes a huge difference, cranking the amp will allow the output tubes to break up. Depending on what types of output tubes you have, that can be a little, or a lot.
#14
His amp is 60 watts and it would be hella hard to crank that. Plus, he needs more gain from an amp with tons of gain so he is obviously playing metal (a genre that usually doesn't have powertube breakup at all).

Get an overdrive and put the overdrive knob on 0-1 and level on 8-9 and it will tighten your sound up and give you that extra oomph. It will essentially be the amps tone but with that little bit of coloration unless you get a clean boost or transparent OD.

Also, try diferent EQ settings. Some may sound weak which could lead you to believe that it doesn't have enough gain.
#15
Quote by acdcrocks0323
His amp is 60 watts and it would be hella hard to crank that. Plus, he needs more gain from an amp with tons of gain so he is obviously playing metal (a genre that usually doesn't have powertube breakup at all).

Get an overdrive and put the overdrive knob on 0-1 and level on 8-9 and it will tighten your sound up and give you that extra oomph. It will essentially be the amps tone but with that little bit of coloration unless you get a clean boost or transparent OD.

Also, try diferent EQ settings. Some may sound weak which could lead you to believe that it doesn't have enough gain.



as for that last part, my gain is on 9, treble on 8 bass and mids on 4, contour on 5 and low res on 9, so idk how it can be more than that w/o being muddy
(Main)Gear-v
Jackson Dinky DKMGT
PRS SE Paul Allender
Peavey 6505+ 112
#17
Quote by seizetheday1103
as for that last part, my gain is on 9, treble on 8 bass and mids on 4, contour on 5 and low res on 9, so idk how it can be more than that w/o being muddy



Not to preach but...DONT SCOOP YOUR MIDS!!!

That is why it sounds hollow and empty. Guitar is a midrange instrument. when you cut your mids your cutting most of the tone from your guitar.
Sig What?
#18
Yeah, put contour on 0 (or whatever side DOESN'T cut mids).
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#19
but if i have my mids higher, it sounds like less gain and less bite. sure it sounds clearer, but it makes it lack that punch even more
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#20
play louder. more volume = more metal.

also, overdrive pedal, and keep messing with your eq. start with them all on the low side, maybe there will be tonal differences.
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#21
Quote by Ubershall404
Correct. 12AX7's are the highest gain preamp tube made. Sure some may have a hair more than other 12ax7's but nothing noticeible. The best way to add more gain is an overdrive pedal.

I dunno, I can definitally hear the difference between a NOS GE 12AX7 and a new-production Gold Pin JJ ECC83, gain-wise. Still, I'd go for an overdrive.
#22
Quote by seizetheday1103
but if i have my mids higher, it sounds like less gain and less bite. sure it sounds clearer, but it makes it lack that punch even more


This will sound fine for home practice but will not work live. You simply will not cut through the mix if you're scooping.

How much gain are you looking for? It seems like you should have enough, if you're turning your volume up, you should getting more punch and a naturally tighter sound.
#23
when i need gain i use an overdrive pedal. some people use two overdrive pedals. i dont know how much more gain you need. you want to sound cool when dust falls on your string huh?
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#24
Quote by al112987
This will sound fine for home practice but will not work live. You simply will not cut through the mix if you're scooping.

How much gain are you looking for? It seems like you should have enough, if you're turning your volume up, you should getting more punch and a naturally tighter sound.

Really not true, if you keep your mids above 2 you can still be heard in a mix just fine if the sound guy doesn't suck at his job. Depending on the amp, sometimes less mids just sounds better. I dunno why everyone believes that less mids = less cutting. There are too many other factors to take into consideration.

I'm getting tired of people saying "oh god it needs to be cranked", especially in a thread where the TS plays high gain metal. In these situations, you want enough volume to get the punch but not to saturate the tubes, as it creates a sag that high gainers generally don't want. I would keep it under 12 o'clock on the volume which is still damn loud, but not cranking.

TS, get an Overdrive pedal. I'd say the Maxon OD808 or have the.spine.surfs build you one. Run it directly in front of the amp and it'll tighten it up and get you the heaviness you need.
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#25
just my input... but tube and speaker replacements can change your sound and give you some more gain, but it is more for shaping your tone than just if you wanted more gain...

maybe a good solid overdrive pedal if its gain you want
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#26
Quote by rwalby9
Really not true, if you keep your mids above 2 you can still be heard in a mix just fine if the sound guy doesn't suck at his job. Depending on the amp, sometimes less mids just sounds better. I dunno why everyone believes that less mids = less cutting. There are too many other factors to take into consideration.

I'm getting tired of people saying "oh god it needs to be cranked", especially in a thread where the TS plays high gain metal. In these situations, you want enough volume to get the punch but not to saturate the tubes, as it creates a sag that high gainers generally don't want. I would keep it under 12 o'clock on the volume which is still damn loud, but not cranking.

TS, get an Overdrive pedal. I'd say the Maxon OD808 or have the.spine.surfs build you one. Run it directly in front of the amp and it'll tighten it up and get you the heaviness you need.


Your sound guy keep you in the mix by boosting your midrange from the sound system. Its not very difficult to understand, cutting your mids will cause your high frequencies to compete with the drummer's high hat and snares, and your low frequencies to compete with the bass and bass drum. Its just a general rule of thumb.

If your amp is solid state rectified, it will NOT get a noticeable amount of sag, I don't know where this whole, "all tube amps sag" thing came from. Sagging comes from a voltage drop in power supply, with solid state rectified amp, there should be no real voltage drop across the rectifier, thus it does not sag. I'm 99.9% positive that a B-52 is not tube rectified.

I never said to saturate the tubes, I said to turn it up, 6L6 tubes have high headroom and will not saturate early anyway, but you still need to get a good amount of volume to get the tubes working, otherwise it eliminates the entire purpose of having a tube power stage. Not to mention, you need to push the speaker with volume.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 11, 2008,
#27
i cant tell if this did anything, but i raised the bridge pickup a little bit, would that increase output?
(Main)Gear-v
Jackson Dinky DKMGT
PRS SE Paul Allender
Peavey 6505+ 112
#29
ok- new topic, sort of

i think i worked out my gain issue but im still not 100% happy w/ my tone. no matter what i do its either too thin, too muddy, too weak etc... i cant get it just right

are there any tips for getting that perfect sound, and this is kinda noobish... all that remains and avenged sevenfold have that really tight, crisp distortion. is this because they use pedals and professional gear, or do they just have the EQ in a way i have never found?
(Main)Gear-v
Jackson Dinky DKMGT
PRS SE Paul Allender
Peavey 6505+ 112
#30
What does your current EQ look like?

If I remember correctly, B-52's are a bit on the loose side. Is it an open back?
#31
Quote by seizetheday1103
ok- new topic, sort of

i think i worked out my gain issue but im still not 100% happy w/ my tone. no matter what i do its either too thin, too muddy, too weak etc... i cant get it just right

are there any tips for getting that perfect sound, and this is kinda noobish... all that remains and avenged sevenfold have that really tight, crisp distortion. is this because they use pedals and professional gear, or do they just have the EQ in a way i have never found?

nah rich mainstream bands dont use professional gear
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#32
no its not open back and currently, my EQ is this
gain 8
bass 5
mid 4
treble 7.5
contour 4 (i hate when its up, idk wat it even does)
low res 3 (same thing as contour ^)

yea it does sound better at louder volumes, but my main issue is the tone on "lead" stuff and muddy-ness
(Main)Gear-v
Jackson Dinky DKMGT
PRS SE Paul Allender
Peavey 6505+ 112
#33
Quote by kayman121
nah rich mainstream bands dont use professional gear


i didnt mean it like that. i meant is their tone so crisp and tight because of the gear and recording equipment or is it just that they have perfect EQ?
(Main)Gear-v
Jackson Dinky DKMGT
PRS SE Paul Allender
Peavey 6505+ 112
#34
Quote by seizetheday1103
i didnt mean it like that. i meant is their tone so crisp and tight because of the gear and recording equipment or is it just that they have perfect EQ?

"perfect eq" is a pretty bold statement, considering the subjective nature of it. But the gear and sound techs definitely play a huge role
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#35
To the TS...

What gain channel are you using? Gain 1 or Gain 2? Also, I see that you have your gain at 9 which is A LOT, and your master at 1 or 2, right? Where is your channel volume (pre-amp)?

We have almost the same head, and I use Gain 1 for all my rhythm. I keep the Gain at around 7, the channel volume around 4 or 5, and the master around 4 or 5. Keeping the channel volume at 4 or 5 allows me to crank the master. If I crank the channel volume too high, I wont be able to turn the master past 2 or my contacts will melt to my eyeballs.

Regarding a pedal... I ran a Boss DS1 distortion pedal in front of the amp just for kicks and it sure added lots of gain, but it lost a lot of its punch and definition, for me anyway. And yes, I do love modern metal and that is basically the tone I'm getting. I think your ears might be tainted by that MG you say you've been using. Thats unnatural gain. Sure, it may sound more distorted and gainy, but thats just an illusion.

Regarding the countour (scoop thing). If your going to use it, put it at 8 or 9 (yes, this is LESS midrange cutting). The lower the number the more you scoop it. So keep it at 8 or 9, and it will give you that Avenged sound, but still keep some mids.

Also, try not to use too much reverb, that tends to muddy up and take some edge off power chords.

My advice, try different settings and don't give up right away. And yes, a tube change might make a difference. Follow the other poster's advice and look into eurotubes, or at least read the info on the pages on their site. Lots of knowledge in there...
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#36
Nice.

Also: sabbathu- is the B52 a loose amp by nature?

Quote by kayman121
nah rich mainstream bands dont use professional gear

Idiot.

Sum 41 uses Marshall JCM's and Mesa Boogie Triple Recs. In stereo.

Why wouldn't bands with more money be able to buy better gear?
#37
Quote by imgooley
Nice.

Also: sabbathu- is the B52 a loose amp by nature?


Idiot.

Sum 41 uses Marshall JCM's and Mesa Boogie Triple Recs. In stereo.

Why wouldn't bands with more money be able to buy better gear?


whooooooooooooooooooosh

and im the idiot
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#38
Quote by imgooley
Nice.

Also: sabbathu- is the B52 a loose amp by nature?


Thats the beauty of this amp, Goolz. The versitilty. The Type A tube setting will allow you to get that AC/DC classic rock, Randy Rhoads, in your face power chord gain. But when you try very fast, tight, rythmic, power-chord-speed chugging, it falls apart. Type A/B setting is where its at when you want 32nd not speed chugging, or detuned chugga-chugga...

BTW, TS, what class tube setting are you using? If you haven't tried A/B, do it... You might notice a difference.
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#39
But to better answer your question, Goolz.... Type A/B setting on the amp is tight and percussive and type A is more open and loose. Barely Legal vs. MILF
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#40
I like to tow the line between the two
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