#1
I'm not sure how to put this question, so I hope this makes sense.
From what I know, the 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th intervals are major. If you flat one it becomes minor. The unison, 4th, 5th and octave are perfect intervals. If you flat one it's diminished and if you sharp one it's augmented.
Then there are major chords, minor chords, diminished chords and augmented chords. We know what chords to play in a major key or relative minor key by following a pattern (maj, min, min, maj, maj, min, dim) of these chords.

Assuming all that is correct, is there a relationship between major intervals and major chords, minor intervals and minor chords, diminished intervals and diminished chords, etc. that I'm not seeing? Or are they separate things that use the same names?
Play the music, not the instrument. ~Author Unknown


blackzeppelion
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Ovenman
Iron blimp.
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Ovenman
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#2
major chord = 1 3 5
minor chord = 1 b3 5
augmented chord = 1 3 #5
diminished chord = 1 b3 b5

etc.
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#3
Quote by Exo M7
major chord = 1 3 5
minor chord = 1 b3 5
augmented chord = 1 3 #5
diminished chord = 1 b3 b5

etc.


Well yes I knew that. But is an augmented chord called that because the fifth of that chord, a major interval, has been sharpened, making that major interval now an augmented interval? Or am I not supposed to think of it that way?
Play the music, not the instrument. ~Author Unknown


blackzeppelion
Who's the band that could become the next led zeppelin?
Ovenman
Iron blimp.
J.A.M
Aluminum helicopter.
Ovenman
*Breaks out periodic table* Magnesium bi-plane.
#4
^ for basic chord construction thats a way to look at it, the answer to your question in the short hand is yes, you are correct. i think in the end the best way to approach it though is as a grouping of notes and theory as a set of descriptions and not so much as rules.
#5
Well, yeah.
A chord has both the name of the third and the fifth, for instance a Perfect Major chord (fundamental note, major third and perfect fifth) or Perfect minor.
So diminished adn augmented implies the fifth.
But I don't know if it is called Diminished minor/major or Augmented minor/major too..
#6
Quote by gonzaw
Well, yeah.
A chord has both the name of the third and the fifth, for instance a Perfect Major chord (fundamental note, major third and perfect fifth) or Perfect minor.
So diminished adn augmented implies the fifth.
But I don't know if it is called Diminished minor/major or Augmented minor/major too..


Aha, this is starting to make sense then. So a minor triad is called a minor triad because the major interval (3rd) has been flattened, making it a minor interval now.
Play the music, not the instrument. ~Author Unknown


blackzeppelion
Who's the band that could become the next led zeppelin?
Ovenman
Iron blimp.
J.A.M
Aluminum helicopter.
Ovenman
*Breaks out periodic table* Magnesium bi-plane.
#7
Quote by MarshmallowPies
Aha, this is starting to make sense then. So a minor triad is called a minor triad because the major interval (3rd) has been flattened, making it a minor interval now.

Yeah that's right.
There are only four possible triads since a triad by definition is a chord made up of two third intervals stacked on top of each other. Two thirds stacked on each other will create some kind of fifth interval.

A major third interval plus a major third interval = an augmented fifth interval. The triad is called augmented. (1 3 #5)

A minor third interval plus a minor third interval = a diminished fifth interval. The triad is called diminished. (1 b3 b5)

A major third plus a minor third = a perfect fifth. (1 3 5)
A minor third plus a major third = a perfect fifth. (1 b3 5)
The quality of each of these two triads is defined by the interval between the root and the third. The first is a major triad the second is a minor triad.

There are only four triads since there are only two third intervals (major and minor) and only two places to put them. 2x2=4.
Si
#8
Quote by 20Tigers
Yeah that's right.
There are only four possible triads since a triad by definition is a chord made up of two third intervals stacked on top of each other. Two thirds stacked on each other will create some kind of fifth interval.

A major third interval plus a major third interval = an augmented fifth interval. The triad is called augmented. (1 3 #5)

A minor third interval plus a minor third interval = a diminished fifth interval. The triad is called diminished. (1 b3 b5)

A major third plus a minor third = a perfect fifth. (1 3 5)
A minor third plus a major third = a perfect fifth. (1 b3 5)
The quality of each of these two triads is defined by the interval between the root and the third. The first is a major triad the second is a minor triad.

There are only four triads since there are only two third intervals (major and minor) and only two places to put them. 2x2=4.


That's enormously helpful. If you were me, how would you put something like that into practice? Just work out what the different triads look like on the guitar?
Play the music, not the instrument. ~Author Unknown


blackzeppelion
Who's the band that could become the next led zeppelin?
Ovenman
Iron blimp.
J.A.M
Aluminum helicopter.
Ovenman
*Breaks out periodic table* Magnesium bi-plane.
#9
Quote by 20Tigers
Yeah that's right.
There are only four possible triads since a triad by definition is a chord made up of two third intervals stacked on top of each other. Two thirds stacked on each other will create some kind of fifth interval.

A major third interval plus a major third interval = an augmented fifth interval. The triad is called augmented. (1 3 #5)

A minor third interval plus a minor third interval = a diminished fifth interval. The triad is called diminished. (1 b3 b5)

A major third plus a minor third = a perfect fifth. (1 3 5)
A minor third plus a major third = a perfect fifth. (1 b3 5)
The quality of each of these two triads is defined by the interval between the root and the third. The first is a major triad the second is a minor triad.

There are only four triads since there are only two third intervals (major and minor) and only two places to put them. 2x2=4.



I thought you could have diminished and augmented thirds?
#10
Quote by gonzaw
Well, yeah.
A chord has both the name of the third and the fifth, for instance a Perfect Major chord (fundamental note, major third and perfect fifth) or Perfect minor.
So diminished adn augmented implies the fifth.
But I don't know if it is called Diminished minor/major or Augmented minor/major too..
Neither the Diminished major nor the Augmented minor are triads.
As far as the Augmented Minor goes - it is just a different major chord in 1st inversion.

Not sure about the diminished major I've never seen it before except in alterations of extended chords. Cmaj7b5, C7b5 - that sort of thing. Though I can say categorically, that whatever it is, it isn't a triad.
Si
#11
Quote by gonzaw
I thought you could have diminished and augmented thirds?

You can but you always look for the simplest representation. When constructing or spelling chords a diminished 3rd most often is easier described as a Major 2nd and an augmented third is a Perfect fourth.

A 3 note chord with root dim3 and P5 intervals would be 1 M2 P5 (a sus2 chord) etc.

EDIT: I think those intervals are more used for spelling altered scales. But I'm not sure to be honest.

1 2 #3 #4 5 6 7
C D E# F# G A B

So you might describe the intervals as M2 Aug3 Aug4 P5 M6 M7
But a triad built on the scale (C E# G) would still be called a Csus4 (1 4 5) since chord spellings and names relate to the Major Scale.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Aug 14, 2008,
#12
Quote by 20Tigers
Neither the Diminished major nor the Augmented minor are triads.
As far as the Augmented Minor goes - it is just a different major chord in 1st inversion.

Not sure about the diminished major I've never seen it before except in alterations of extended chords. Cmaj7b5, C7b5 - that sort of thing. Though I can say categorically, that whatever it is, it isn't a triad.


Well, both stack thirds, one stacks a minor third and augmented third, and the other one a major third and a diminished thirds.

Quote by 20Tigers
You can but you always look for the simplest representation. When constructing or spelling chords a diminished 3rd most often is easier described as a Major 2nd and an augmented third is a Perfect fourth.

A 3 note chord with root dim3 and P5 intervals would be 1 M2 P5 (a sus2 chord) etc.



They are different intervals, it doesn't matter what it's enharmonical one is.
It is like saying superdiminished fifths don't exist because its enharmonic is the perfect fourth (or diminished 7ths instead of major 6ths, etc)....
Also I don't know if in pythagorean tuning "enharmonical" intervals have the same ratios or not...
#13
Quote by gonzaw
Well, both stack thirds, one stacks a minor third and augmented third, and the other one a major third and a diminished thirds.

They are different intervals, it doesn't matter what it's enharmonical one is.
It is like saying superdiminished fifths don't exist because its enharmonic is the perfect fourth (or diminished 7ths instead of major 6ths, etc)....
Also I don't know if in pythagorean tuning "enharmonical" intervals have the same ratios or not...

I'm not sure. I know there are diminished 7ths etc such as in Cdim7 (1 b3 b5 bb7). But if it were 1 3 5 bb7 it is just a C6 and would be better spelled as 1 3 5 6.

But like I said I'm not sure of why it is correct one way or the other.

I am certain however that there are only four triads. This has been stated in every theory book and reference I have ever seen.
Si
#15
Quote by gonzaw
But then how do you name R b3 #5
Or R 3 b5?
YOu only name them CMb5 and Cm#5?
But it isn't really CM since it has only 2 notes, and same with Cm...

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by it only has 2 notes.
The first one is an inverted major chord - Ab/C or sometimes Ab⁶
The second one i guess would be called Cmajb5. You would put maj in to denote that includes a maj3rd. Cb5 would be a diad (Cb powerchord) and C(b5) could also be confused as a diad, I guess.

I have been scouring the internet and have seen one source say there are 9 different triads. I have two problems. Why 9? If there are four types of third intervals there would be 4x4=16 triads. The other problem is many of these triads the 9 triads are either inversions of other chords or suspended chords. Everywhere else says there are 4.

I'm confused now too
Si
#16
Well, again, you can call a chord different ways, but there must be a way for calling it that way (not Ab/C, but also it should be G# not Ab). YOu could call a Cmaj chord (C E G) Emin/C or something too....
But doesn't Cmaj imply a 5th? Does a Cmaj diad exist (I would guess it will be called C3 instead maybe)?
But I think there should be a way of calling that triad..


9 triads?
Well, there are 4 types of third (minor major diminished and augmented) and 5 types of fifth (perfect diminished augmented superdiminished superaugmented) so it would be 20 triads (well, the ones that are R #3 bb5 can be removed though)...
Why it is 9 I have no idea......