#1
Hey people...

i was at guitar lessons yesterday, and my teacher showed me these awesome licks in Dorian mode....now I tried tackling the modes a while back...but we decided to fill out the rest of the gaps in my basic theory first.

SO... the key signature said A minor, which is the relative minor to C major. So usually I wuld just solo up and down the neck with the A minor pentatonic. But...how do I know when I can use these licks, which incorporate the dorian's #6th? (i think thats what it is anyway...) Do I have to be careful about the chords happening? And can I use them over c swell as A minor? If its Dorian in A minor, what note would it start of again?

I really wanna know cos I get this cool blues/jazzy sound in dorian licks...
Mal: "Doctor, I'm taking your sister under my protection here. If anything happens to her, anything at all, I swear to you, I will get very choked up. Honestly, there could be tears." FIREFLY RULES!!!
#2
If you want to use dorian licks, then you need to know where the root note is in the licks.

The root note should be the same as the minor chord you play over.

For example-

---------------------
---------------------
-------------9p7h[b][color="DarkRed"]9[/COLOR][/b]---
------9h11p9---------
--[b][color="DarkRed"]7[/COLOR][/b]h10---------------
---------------------


This could be an E Dorian lick (roots in red), this would be played over E minor.
#3
oh... thankyou..so its all to do with the chords im playing it over....
Mal: "Doctor, I'm taking your sister under my protection here. If anything happens to her, anything at all, I swear to you, I will get very choked up. Honestly, there could be tears." FIREFLY RULES!!!
#4
It's not about the scale, it's about the style. Metallica uses Dorian a lot in their songs, and it doesn't really sound bluesy at all. You just really have to study the type of music you want to play to get the sound.
#5
Quote by Imafrog
which incorporate the dorian's #6th? (i think thats what it is anyway...)


The 6 is a natural btw. Do you know how to write a Dorian progression? If you can, you'll have Dorian licks flying in from every direction.
Last edited by mdc at Aug 15, 2008,
#6
here's how i understand writing a dorian progression (i'm very under-educated on modal vamps btw). if I wanted to write in D dorian, then i would have to first see what separates the dorian sound from the rest. as you guys said, the natural 6 (B, in this instance). Now I have to write a progression that does not want to resolve back to C. now looking at my chords:

Dm - D F A
Em - E G B
F - F A C
G - G B D
Am - A C E
B dim - B D F
C - C E G

so i could start with a Dmin ( D F A) and move that to a G (G B D). i should probably exclude chords that are rooted on the 1 and 6 from C Ionian ("Parent Scale") to avoid moving away from D. That rules out C maj and A min.

Now if I make the Dmin a Dmin7 (D F A C) then the B from the G maj will want to move to the C. and i'm pretty sure that would be a dorian progression...

for those that know how to create these progressions and are reading this thread, can you please help me understand this a little more thoroughly. i can't seem to create Modal vamps any longer than two chords!
#7
OK, the way it works with modes is that you need to find the characteristic notes of the mode - for Dorian, the characteristic note is the natural 6th scale degree - and be sure that when you use that note to get that Dorian sound, the chord underneath either includes the natural sixth scale degree or does not include the sixth scale degree at all.

In the case of A Dorian, as you mention, the notes are A B C D E F# G, with F# being your characteristic note. Basically what this means is that when you're soloing using the A Pentatonic (to start off) and you want to get that Dorian sound in a lick you're about to play, you need to make sure the chord underneath the lick either includes an F# or no F at all.

Let's say your chord progression is Am Dm Am Em. You can use the F#, the characteristic Dorian note, over the Am or Em because neither of those chords contains a note that will clash with the F#, especially if you use it gracefully to slide into chord tones (slide up from F# to G for example, on the Em chord). But if you try to use the F# to get that Dorian sound over the Dm chord, chances are you're in for one of those "WHOOPS" moments because the Dm includes an F natural and you'll be nailing that F# at the same time. That's not to say some guitarists can't figure out a way to tastefully incorporate the F# by sliding into or out of it, or through some other method, but unless you really know what you're doing, you would want to avoid the Dorian note on that Dm chord and shoot for the F natural instead, which would imply an A aeolian, or natural minor sound.

If you're using the pentatonics, though, you won't be hitting an F at all unless you're going for a modal sound because the sixth scale degree, F, is not included in the pentatonic scale.

Hope this helps.
#8
To add to this, though, if your progression was Am D(major) Am Em, then this is naturally a very Dorian sound chord progression and will SCREAM Dorian when played and soloed over because the D major chord already includes the F#. Give it a shot just vamping on these chords for a while and you'll HEAR the Dorian sound before even soloing over it. In this case, you'll want to target that F# on the D major chord and although you'll be able to use it over any of the chords, it will fit right in on that chord and sound like it belongs there. You'll be able to really hang on it. Try it out.
#9
Quote by PSM
In this case, you'll want to target that F# on the D major chord and although you'll be able to use it over any of the chords, it will fit right in on that chord and sound like it belongs there. You'll be able to really hang on it. Try it out.

.....because it's the major 3rd in relation to D. This thread should be in MT.
Last edited by mdc at Aug 15, 2008,
#10
OOOHHH!!! cheers psm...that has made it TOns clearer!
Mal: "Doctor, I'm taking your sister under my protection here. If anything happens to her, anything at all, I swear to you, I will get very choked up. Honestly, there could be tears." FIREFLY RULES!!!
#11
Isn't the Dorian progression:

ii-iii-IV-V-vi-dimvii-I
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#12
Quote by sTx
Isn't the Dorian progression:

You're starting from the second degree of the major scale which is Dorian....what you've done there is just follow the major scale degrees. Your roman numerals are correct.

Though to create a Dorian progression, it needs to sound like it resolves to the ii chord. It's important to realise that the tonic has now shifted to the ii chord.