#1
hey all, so I've been needing to ask this question for a while as i need to expand my limits for my harmony (chords) of my songs.

I know the basic chord extension with 7ths is

Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj Amin Bdim

Cmaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bdim7

so would this be the same with 9ths and 11ths?

cheers, Aidan.
#2
Essentially, yes. If you write Emaj11, then the notes that must be present are the root, third, seventh, and eleventh. Usually, you will also have the ninth, but it isn't as necessary as the seventh or third.

For thirteenth chords, then it would be impossible to play every single note unless you have a seven string guitar. So, you will be forced to omit some notes. The fifth is most commonly omited because it is the most similar to the root. After that would be the other extensions (i.e. the ninth and eleventh). This can give you many different voicings for essentially the same chord.
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#3
It works with 9th chords. I do not know about the diminished chords though. I normally see min9b5th chords. But those are half diminished. You normally won't see a maj11th chord. The reason is when you add the 4th, it is a half step above the 3rd. The chord tones are 1, 3, 5, and 7. When you add a note for an extension if it is a half of step above a chord tone, then it is considered an avoid note. What you would do is raise the 11th by a half step to get a #11th. You can have minor 11th chords. When you raise the fourth a half step, the lydian scale would go better with it. So if you had a Cmaj#11th, C lydian would go good over that chord.

Correct me if I'm wrong theory experts.
Last edited by Guitar Guy21 at Aug 16, 2008,
#4
Quote by Guitar Guy21
It works with 9th chords. I do not know about the diminished chords though. I normally see min9b5th chords. But those are half diminished. You normally won't see a maj11th chord. The reason is when you add the 4th, it is a half step above the 3rd. The chord tones are 1, 3, 5, and 7. When you add a note for an extension if it is a half of step above a chord tone, then it is considered an avoid note. What you would do is raise the 11th by a half step to get a #11th. You can have minor 11th chords.

Correct me if I'm wrong theory experts.


The minor 11 is my favorite chord!

Especially because it resolves beautifully to a major chord in octaves.

So on piano, Ill do a Cm11, then play two Bb chords at once.
#6
Cmaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bdim7


A dim7 chord cannot be built from the major scale. The chord built off of the seventh degree is Bm7b5. A dim7 chord is: 1-b3-b5-bb7

so would this be the same with 9ths and 11ths?


It depends on the scale degree. You need to examine the scale from which you are trying to build these chords. The theory sticky covers chord construction.

I normally see min9b5th chords. But those are half diminished.


A half-diminsihed chord is m7b5.

You normally won't see a maj11th chord. The reason is when you add the 4th, it is a half step above the 3rd. The chord tones are 1, 3, 5, and 7. When you add a note for an extension if it is a half of step above a chord tone, then it is considered an avoid note.


This is partially true. It's true that the 11th is considered dissonant, and that it's reasonably common to omit the the third in an 11 chord (this is one of the only instances in which you would omit the third, at least in diatonic harmony), but chords in diatonic harmony are often chosen for their dissonance.

What you would do is raise the 11th by a half step to get a #11th. You can have minor 11th chords.


This is an option. As was said, the fourth is often considered an avoid note over a major chord. Depending on the genre, it would be common to use a #4 in the melody or to change the 11th to a #11th, though this is probably a better choice over, say, a dominant chord than the tonic chord.
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Last edited by Archeo Avis at Aug 16, 2008,
#7
Quote by Archeo Avis

A half-diminsihed chord is m7b5.

So when you add the 9th it can't be half diminished anymore?
#8
Quote by Guitar Guy21
So when you add the 9th it can't be half diminished anymore?


You wouldn't call it a "half-diminished chord" without elaborating in some way, and it would be misleading to describe a half-diminished chord as "m9b5".
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#9
Quote by Archeo Avis
You wouldn't call it a "half-diminished chord" without elaborating in some way, and it would be misleading to describe a half-diminished chord as "m9b5".

But does the intervals in that chord make it half diminished?
#11
Quote by one vision
I don't think it would be "correct" to call it a m9b5, but what's the correct way to go about it in this situation? m7b5add9 maybe?


Since the 7 is flattened, m9b5 accurately describes the chord. I just take issue with referring to it as half-diminished because it can be misleading. When you say half-diminished, people are going to think "m7b5". A m9b5 chord may function the same, but it would also be approached differently from an improvisational standpoint.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#12
Quote by Archeo Avis
Since the 7 is flattened, m9b5 accurately describes the chord. I just take issue with referring to it as half-diminished because it can be misleading. When you say half-diminished, people are going to think "m7b5". A m9b5 chord may function the same, but it would also be approached differently from an improvisational standpoint.

That was the answer I was looking for. I don't call a m9b5 a half diminished chord, but I wanted to know if it had the half diminished function to it.