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#1
My band has a bunch of songs that were planning on recording and putting on the internet, prob on myspace music...and hand out cd's. Is there a way to make sure noone steals our songs? If we put it up on myspace does that give us complete legal rights to it? thanks.
'I love her, but I love to fish...I'm gonna miss her"
#2
burn all the songs too a CD, and mail yourself the CD. NEVER OPEN THE ENVELOPE
its called the poorman's copyright
Ted: [Whispering to Bill] Your stepmom is cute.
Bill: Shut up, Ted.
Ted: Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?
Bill: Shut up, Ted!
#3
Alternatively, email it to yourself and save the unopened message in your hard disk.
less effort FTW
Quote by icaneatcatfood
On second thought, **** tuning forks. You best be carrying around a grand piano that was tuned by an Italian
#5
Conclusion: generally more effort than its worth.
Quote by lespaul#1
Indie stands for Industrial I think, like Marilyn Manson.

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The Falling Object Model
#7
You can pay the United States Copyright Office $30 and it becomes legit. You fill out some paperwork, sign some stuff, and then they get a copy of the material . It's 100% legal and holds up in every court system in the world.

The downside?

It gets a bit pricey. Do it by the album length.
#8
Quote by VIRUSDETECTED
You can pay the United States Copyright Office $30 and it becomes legit. You fill out some paperwork, sign some stuff, and then they get a copy of the material . It's 100% legal and holds up in every court system in the world.

The downside?

It gets a bit pricey. Do it by the album length.


or you can just mail it to yourself... even my record producer told us to do that
Ted: [Whispering to Bill] Your stepmom is cute.
Bill: Shut up, Ted.
Ted: Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?
Bill: Shut up, Ted!
#10
Quote by one vision
^Mail it to yourself? How does that work?


record quick demos of your music (or if you have real recordings already, that works)
put them on a disc and mail them to yourself. NEVER open the envelope
Every piece of sent mail has a government stamp, thus copywriting whatever is sent and unopened
Ted: [Whispering to Bill] Your stepmom is cute.
Bill: Shut up, Ted.
Ted: Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?
Bill: Shut up, Ted!
#12
it should work anywhere, does canadian mail have stamps on it?
Ted: [Whispering to Bill] Your stepmom is cute.
Bill: Shut up, Ted.
Ted: Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?
Bill: Shut up, Ted!
#13
Quote by Crimson Ghost
or you can just mail it to yourself... even my record producer told us to do that


Of course you can. I'm just explaining the other option. I prefer the mailing way anyway. It's only a buck or two, compared to 30.
#14
Quote by VIRUSDETECTED
Of course you can. I'm just explaining the other option. I prefer the mailing way anyway. It's only a buck or two, compared to 30.


for sure dude
Ted: [Whispering to Bill] Your stepmom is cute.
Bill: Shut up, Ted.
Ted: Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?
Bill: Shut up, Ted!
#16
but the part you dismiss is that mailing it to yourself doesn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are the original creator of it on the date stamped on the envelope. if you use the poor mans copyright and ever want to prosecute someone for stealing your music you better be prepared to pay for a rich mans lawyer. i suggest spending the $30, don't be cheap and be guaranteed that you have a copyright. if you have questions ask dirk gently, he's UGs resident law professional.
#17
^ i very much agree with that. in case anything happens with other guys copying you, and you mailed it to yourself, dates on mailing and the first time the other guys recorded it would have to be checked, and could be a huge mess. if you registered the song(s) officially, you'd immediately win the case with no big stress being caused.
#18
Quote by z4twenny
but the part you dismiss is that mailing it to yourself doesn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are the original creator of it on the date stamped on the envelope. if you use the poor mans copyright and ever want to prosecute someone for stealing your music you better be prepared to pay for a rich mans lawyer. i suggest spending the $30, don't be cheap and be guaranteed that you have a copyright. if you have questions ask dirk gently, he's UGs resident law professional.

If I may step in here, there are two glaring issues that I see with this "poor man's copyright" right off the bat.

1. Copyright infringement cases generally don't arise because the author of a work is disputed; most cases center around the ideas of fair use and distribution. Even if the poor man's copyright DID prove beyond a reasonable doubt (which it doesn't) that you are the original author of the work, mailing an envelope to yourself has nothing to do with the distribution and use of the product. Also, because of this you can get yourself into danger due to the Internet; if you release some music online on January 10, for example, somebody may be able to illegally distribute it that day. If you also send the letter in to the post office on January 10, it may not get processed until January 11 at the earliest. Because of this, your postmark would have occurred after any infringement you can possibly claim, thus nullifying your "copyright" and any claim of infringement you can dream up.

2. Following this logic, another huge problem is that copyright cases registered with the United States Copyright Office are heard in federal court. If you don't register with any federal office, the highest level you can take your case to is state court, because the federal government has no records of your copyright. Problem is, if you're in state court, you can only sue for one of two things: the amount made for somebody else off an infringement or the amount you lost. The greater of the two would be the amount you're awarded, and this would rarely turn out to be any amount greater than your grandmother mails you for your birthday.

To sum up -- do the correct copyrighting.
#19
Quote by :-D

1. Copyright infringement cases generally don't arise because the author of a work is disputed; most cases center around the ideas of fair use and distribution. Even if the poor man's copyright DID prove beyond a reasonable doubt (which it doesn't) that you are the original author of the work, mailing an envelope to yourself has nothing to do with the distribution and use of the product. Also, because of this you can get yourself into danger due to the Internet; if you release some music online on January 10, for example, somebody may be able to illegally distribute it that day. If you also send the letter in to the post office on January 10, it may not get processed until January 11 at the earliest. Because of this, your postmark would have occurred after any infringement you can possibly claim, thus nullifying your "copyright" and any claim of infringement you can dream up.


thats why you wait until you receive the envelope before sharing your music
Ted: [Whispering to Bill] Your stepmom is cute.
Bill: Shut up, Ted.
Ted: Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?
Bill: Shut up, Ted!
#20
Quote by Crimson Ghost
thats why you wait until you receive the envelope before sharing your music

But you didn't address:

The fact that the envelope does not protect against the issue at the core of most copyright infringement cases.

Point number 2 in its entirety.

I still see no advantage (other than saving a few bucks) to the poor man's copyright.
#21
Quote by :-D
But you didn't address:

The fact that the envelope does not protect against the issue at the core of most copyright infringement cases.

Point number 2 in its entirety.

I still see no advantage (other than saving a few bucks) to the poor man's copyright.



im not saying its the best way to approach things, but ive been recommended doing it from several professionals in the business, plus its quick, so you can also do it right away if youre too busy at the moment to go through the whole other process
Ted: [Whispering to Bill] Your stepmom is cute.
Bill: Shut up, Ted.
Ted: Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?
Bill: Shut up, Ted!
#22
Quote by Crimson Ghost
im not saying its the best way to approach things, but ive been recommended doing it from several professionals in the business, plus its quick, so you can also do it right away if youre too busy at the moment to go through the whole other process

Regardless of how busy I am, I'd rather fill out some paperwork and mail in the album if I knew I was protected for years by the federal government. The poor man's copyright has too many holes, I didn't even think of the obvious: what if you lose the envelope?
#23
^ +1

Quote by Crimson Ghost
im not saying its the best way to approach things, but ive been recommended doing it from several professionals in the business, plus its quick, so you can also do it right away if youre too busy at the moment to go through the whole other process


seriously if your music is that good and you're worrying about someone copying it then $30 and a couple signatures and $10 in mailing fees shouldn't be anything. if you don't have $40 and "the time" it takes to print out some pages and sign on a couple dotted lines then it would be in your best interest to wait until your "busy schedule" permits. i wouldn't consider anyone serious about keeping their music safe if they did the mailing thing. that sounds more like a bad joke than anything. in fact, if you are indeed that serious about your music i'd think you stop whatever the hell you're doing to make time to get it copywritten.

long story short, i wouldn't even consider it an approach to any situation.
#24
Quote by :-D
If I may step in here, there are two glaring issues that I see with this "poor man's copyright" right off the bat.

1. Copyright infringement cases generally don't arise because the author of a work is disputed; most cases center around the ideas of fair use and distribution. Even if the poor man's copyright DID prove beyond a reasonable doubt (which it doesn't) that you are the original author of the work, mailing an envelope to yourself has nothing to do with the distribution and use of the product. Also, because of this you can get yourself into danger due to the Internet; if you release some music online on January 10, for example, somebody may be able to illegally distribute it that day. If you also send the letter in to the post office on January 10, it may not get processed until January 11 at the earliest. Because of this, your postmark would have occurred after any infringement you can possibly claim, thus nullifying your "copyright" and any claim of infringement you can dream up.

2. Following this logic, another huge problem is that copyright cases registered with the United States Copyright Office are heard in federal court. If you don't register with any federal office, the highest level you can take your case to is state court, because the federal government has no records of your copyright. Problem is, if you're in state court, you can only sue for one of two things: the amount made for somebody else off an infringement or the amount you lost. The greater of the two would be the amount you're awarded, and this would rarely turn out to be any amount greater than your grandmother mails you for your birthday.

To sum up -- do the correct copyrighting.


My grandmother is a rich old geezer who lives in a big big mansion all alone. She owns lots of cats and keeps an endangered panda in her basement. She feeds the cats to the panda.
Quote by icaneatcatfood
On second thought, **** tuning forks. You best be carrying around a grand piano that was tuned by an Italian
#25
Quote by Laces Out Danny
My grandmother is a rich old geezer who lives in a big big mansion all alone. She owns lots of cats and keeps an endangered panda in her basement. She feeds the cats to the panda.

What?
#26
Quote by Crimson Ghost
im not saying its the best way to approach things, but ive been recommended doing it from several professionals in the business, plus its quick, so you can also do it right away if youre too busy at the moment to go through the whole other process

Slight indication there that those gentlemen were NOT professionals.
All that 'method' shows is that you mailed something to yourself on a particular day.
#27
Quote by Retro Rocker
Slight indication there that those gentlemen were NOT professionals.
All that 'method' shows is that you mailed something to yourself on a particular day.


id consider a grammy winning producer a professional
Ted: [Whispering to Bill] Your stepmom is cute.
Bill: Shut up, Ted.
Ted: Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?
Bill: Shut up, Ted!
#28
Quote by Crimson Ghost
id consider a grammy winning producer a professional

Did he sleep his way to the top?
#29
Quote by Crimson Ghost
id consider a grammy winning producer a professional


i'd consider you a liar. if you have the money for a grammy winning producer then you have $40 to spare for correct copyrighting

isn't common sense grand folks?

yes crimson ghost, im calling you out.
Last edited by z4twenny at Aug 18, 2008,
#30
Quote by z4twenny
i'd consider you a liar. if you have the money for a grammy winning producer then you have $40 to spare for correct copyrighting

isn't common sense grand folks?


actually, hes my dad's best friend so no, i dont really have to pay at all for recordings
also, im not saying i cant afford 40 dollars, the TS asked for a way to copywrite and i told him, and im just saying a way thats been recommended several times before, so do things whatever way you feel comfortable
Ted: [Whispering to Bill] Your stepmom is cute.
Bill: Shut up, Ted.
Ted: Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?
Bill: Shut up, Ted!
#31
^ so you expect me to believe that because "your dads best friend" is a producer you don't have to pay, because you're "his friends son" its not a business anymore? wtf!?!?! my dad had plenty of good friends in many industries of business, one of them was an auto mechanic and guess what they MIGHT give a TINY discount if you're nice. business is still business. again, no common sense. i'm not buying it and chances are no one else is either.

but this is getting off topic, spend the money and get a real copyright unless you either

A) don't care if your songs get ripped off (a part from one of mine has by Linkin Park, they used a riff virtually identical to one of mine in a song on their first cd, i however wrote my song about 2 or 3 years before that cd came out, so i look at it like being ahead of the curve)

personally i don't care if people steal my music, it means they like it.

B) want to sue somebody and have a high possibility of losing. in which case you like throwing money away, that being obvious you can just go ahead and send me your money instead of throwing it away.
#32
Quote by z4twenny
^ so you expect me to believe that because "your dads best friend" is a producer you don't have to pay, because you're "his friends son" its not a business anymore? wtf!?!?! my dad had plenty of good friends in many industries of business, one of them was an auto mechanic and guess what they MIGHT give a TINY discount if you're nice. business is still business. again, no common sense. i'm not buying it and chances are no one else is either.



actually, i get it completely free, the only problem is we have to record on his time which can be a bitch sometimes
Ted: [Whispering to Bill] Your stepmom is cute.
Bill: Shut up, Ted.
Ted: Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?
Bill: Shut up, Ted!
#33
^ which explains the countless pletheora of #1 award winning songs on your profile. still, not buying it.
#35
because im not posting songs on UG means nothing to me, and neither does aything you have to say.
im here to help the TS, which is the whole point of this thread
Ted: [Whispering to Bill] Your stepmom is cute.
Bill: Shut up, Ted.
Ted: Remember when she was a senior and we were freshmen?
Bill: Shut up, Ted!
#36
^ then why do you keep responding CG. im just calling you out on BS, if its BS thats fine, but don't try to back it up like a sad kid who gets upset someone isn't believing their lies.

edit: and subsequently i don't know if i would really consider telling someone to use a method that may or may not work to be THAT helpful. could he mail it to himself? sure, would that work without a shadow of a doubt? probably not.
Last edited by z4twenny at Aug 18, 2008,
#37
will we did both made two one we mailed to the copi write in DC and a poorboys copie write like the one said .my frist copie write 92 95 99 it is 30$ a song now but there is ways to do it if you know a lawer he mit know we did it as a book it we 30 for all the songs put your song on paper and tape put keys down got the forms of the net seed it to DC or to your self put it in a valt never opon it if any one stils your songs you got it it will be opon in the cort of law I have co writen on ather people songs to I am on four Copie writes I am not Big time yet my sister in law shes the one who worked on my copie write it you do the DC way some of the big time record compayns will write you about you songs to buy them or use them .it you wish to know more contac me
#39
Sorry if somebody already said this, but the "poor man's copyright" wouldn't hold up in court. You could just as easily mail an unsealed envelope to yourself, get it back, put in someone else's CD, and then seal the envelope. You would then have a poor man's copyright on something that wasn't yours. A lawyer or judge would never take this as serious proof of anything. Go the legal route, even $30/song now is better than losing your songs or paying a lawyer later.
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