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#1
I was reading the James Bulger murder case that someone posted earlier, and it got me thinking. Why the hell do criminals get lawyers to DEFEND THEM? I don't mean suspected criminals, I mean those who have valid proof, whether it be video or witnesses of them commiting a crime. They pay the lawyers to either get them off the charges, or a lighter penalty. Murderers deserve their life in prison, not 10 years... Bah.
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#2
Right to a fair trial?
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
You can't prove that people DON'T walk on water. turn water into wine etc.
#3
Well, you see, there is this wonderful little thing called the Bill of Rights and well, I'll just be damned if it doesn't apply to everyone, even murderers.
#4
Quote by AlucardZero
I was reading the James Bulger murder case that someone posted earlier, and it got me thinking. Why the hell do criminals get lawyers to DEFEND THEM? I don't mean suspected criminals, I mean those who have valid proof, whether it be video or witnesses of them commiting a crime. They pay the lawyers to either get them off the charges, or a lighter penalty. Murderers deserve their life in prison, not 10 years... Bah.


Right to a fair trial?

Quote by GnR_ROK
Right to a fair trial?


Just a few seconds before me.
#5
For the lulz.
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#7
Because they don't want to go to jail. They know they did it, and it would be the right thing to do, but hey killing an innocent child wasn't the right thing to do and it didn't seem to bother them.
#8
Everyone has the right to defend themselves in court. What about those who have been framed? Or perhaps when the evidence doesn't paint the whole picture? We live in liberal states.
#9
Welcome to the legal system. So ****ed up its unbelievable . . . . . . . . . But people are more concerned with keeping up our races current ideas of 'morality' and 'rights' to punish those who ignore these rights and morals in a heinous fashion and punish them as neccessary, not realising that failing to punish or extinguish these individuals is what causes these kind of behaviours to continue to exist . . . ..
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#11
I must be forgetting the fair trial thing. Although does it seem FAIR to kill a person and only get 8 years? Killing at such a young age will turn you into someone that can hurt a lot more people.
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#12
Quote by Kensai
For the lulz.


This.
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#13
Quote by sebbsmith
Everyone has the right to defend themselves in court. What about those who have been framed? Or perhaps when the evidence doesn't paint the whole picture? We live in liberal states.


I said those who have valid (something that's unmistakable for someone else) proof, those who 've been framed I've no problem them having a lawyer.
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#14
oh dear, the ignorance in this thread is making me sweat.

There's this thing called the right to legal representation. Not everyone knows how to defend themselves in court, especially nowadays when they're much more complex. You want a bunch of lawyers bombarding a man with legal terms while he sits there like a scared child?

on the subject of evidence, the entire purpose of a trial is to determine that there's sufficient evidence to prove that a man's guilty. You cannot come into a trial with indisputable evidence of a man's crime, because that's where you dispute it.
#15
Quote by AlucardZero
They pay the lawyers to either get them off the charges, or a lighter penalty.



In most cases no they don't...

They end up with lawyers paid for by 'Legal Aid' (basically taxpayers pay for them), they (defendants) don't really get much of a benefit from it seeing as the lawyers are generally shit...


But yes... TS is a bit of a tool
#16
Most lawyers probably jump at the chance to defend these kind of people, the fee must be immense.
RULE BRITANNIA
#17
what i ask myself is when they arrest someone they say 'you have the right to remain silent'
and when they take him away they question him and say he has to admit everything :s
and why don't they use lie-detectors more? i mean isn't it like actual proof?
#18
Quote by bob farrell
Welcome to the legal system. So ****ed up its unbelievable . . . . . . . . . But people are more concerned with keeping up our races current ideas of 'morality' and 'rights' to punish those who ignore these rights and morals in a heinous fashion and punish them as neccessary, not realising that failing to punish or extinguish these individuals is what causes these kind of behaviours to continue to exist . . . ..


Well if you can't stick to your morals, you can't teach them.
#19
In case they're.. you know.. innocent.
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#20
Quote by toine
what i ask myself is when they arrest someone they say 'you have the right to remain silent'
and when they take him away they question him and say he has to admit everything :s
and why don't they use lie-detectors more? i mean isn't it like actual proof?


Lie detectors can't be used as definitive proof in court, they are used more as guidelines for heading detective and investigators the right way to find some real proof.
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#21
Quote by toine
what i ask myself is when they arrest someone they say 'you have the right to remain silent'
and when they take him away they question him and say he has to admit everything :s



What?

They have a right to remain silent, but anything they do say can be used against them - They don't have to be silent if they don't want to...

It's the same in an interview, they don't have to answer any questions - they can just 'No Comment' everything they get asked.

And Lie Detectors can't be used as evidence in most places.
#23
Quote by AlucardZero
I must be forgetting the fair trial thing. Although does it seem FAIR to kill a person and only get 8 years? Killing at such a young age will turn you into someone that can hurt a lot more people.


I do believe the minimum sentence for murder is a good 25. Unless you're referring to a murder by a minor, in which case, if a child is very young, he will be tried as a minor because youth is very unstable time and usually anything that would lead a very young person to kill is the result of extraordinary circumstances. If the child is older (16ish or older), but still legally a minor, depending on the circumstances of the murder he may be tried as an adult and still get the hard sentence.
#24
Quote by Cobain_Is_King
No one is truly innocent.
Edit: Except Ian Huntley.


Well...You say that... (applies to both parts of your post)
#26
Every criminal on trial is automatically appointed a lawyer in court (if they do not have one) for their best interests. As lawyers, we understand it is difficult to defend a culprit but the way we get through it is to keep reminding ourselves that everyone has the right to a fair trial - without rules, we're nothing short of barbarians. The courts do not recommend you represent yourself just incase you lose more than you deserve through sheer ignorence. This is another reason why Criminals get lawyers - Criminals don't understand the legal complications as a lawyer would and so may not be able to follow the procedures correctly.
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Last edited by Harmonius at Aug 21, 2008,
#28
Because everyone deserves a fair trial, and because sometimes they get the wrong person.
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#29
Quote by MaxLees666
I believe it is pronounced "teh"


Damn grammar nazi
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#30
Quote by Kensai
Damn grammar Nazi


<.<

EDIT: Who am I kidding...I speak a-no English
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#31
Quote by Kensai
Damn grammar nazi


Lol quite ironic isn't it as I'm "incorrecting" you. Meh. In internet grammar, anything goes. Except your/you're/their/there mistakes. I cant stand them
#32
Quote by sebbsmith
Everyone has the right to defend themselves in court. What about those who have been framed? Or perhaps when the evidence doesn't paint the whole picture? We live in liberal states.

Like in The Shawshank Redemption.

Well not really, but you get the point.
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#33
Quote by MaxLees666
Lol quite ironic isn't it as I'm "incorrecting" you. Meh. In internet grammar, anything goes. Except your/you're/their/there mistakes. I cant stand them


Don't forget should of/would of/could of.

Makes me mad
Quote by Fassa Albrecht
You can't prove that people DON'T walk on water. turn water into wine etc.
#34
Quote by AlucardZero
I was reading the James Bulger murder case that someone posted earlier, and it got me thinking. Why the hell do criminals get lawyers to DEFEND THEM? I don't mean suspected criminals, I mean those who have valid proof, whether it be video or witnesses of them commiting a crime. They pay the lawyers to either get them off the charges, or a lighter penalty. Murderers deserve their life in prison, not 10 years... Bah.


Valid proof can only be found during the trial and, witnesses have the ability to lie y'know.

The movie ''12 Angry Men'' would be a good movie to watch to shed light on the whole valid proof point.

EDIT: Also, a criminal cannot be convicted if there is insufficient Actus Reus or Mens Rea for a crime commited.
Last edited by LesPaulLeader08 at Aug 21, 2008,
#35
Quote by Harmonius
<.<

EDIT: Who am I kidding...I speak a-no English


Like-a me-a! I learnt english from super mario brothers.

Quote by MaxLees666
Lol quite ironic isn't it as I'm "incorrecting" you. Meh. In internet grammar, anything goes. Except your/you're/their/there mistakes. I cant stand them


I know, I was just messing with you
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#36
Because criminals, no matter what they've done, deserve the right to a free trial?
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#38
Because everyone needs a lawyer so they can have a trial.
Otherwise where would you draw the line at what was sufficient enough to bypass a trial(cough cough patriot act cough)?
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#40
Quote by urbanfox
What?

They have a right to remain silent, but anything they do say can be used against them - They don't have to be silent if they don't want to...

It's the same in an interview, they don't have to answer any questions - they can just 'No Comment' everything they get asked.

And Lie Detectors can't be used as evidence in most places.

why can't they be used in most places? i mean they can have a confessions that way :s
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