#1
What are they and how do you play them?

Also these modes:

C Ionian

D Dorian

E Phrygian

F Lydian

G Mixolydian

A Aeolian

B Locrian

Do they all fit in with the key of C Major?

EDIT: Also if I'm improvising over a song in C Major and I start the solo/imrov. with an E but play the same shapes as the C Major Scale does it make the mode E Phyrigian if i use E as the root?
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Last edited by Conca at Aug 21, 2008,
#2
Yes, those modes are all in the key of C major. I'm sure someone will come along with an indepth explanation/link to said explanation in a minute but basically modes basically take the formula of the major scale and start it from a different degree of the scale, so the C major scale uses these notes:

CDEFGAB

If you take those same notes, but start on the second degree (the D), then you get the D Dorian mode:

DEFGAB

And that applies to each mode and each scale degree (so A Aeolian is ABCDEFG, E Phrygian is EFGABCD etc).

As for playing them, you can figure them out using the same major scale formula:

WWHWWWH

and starting it on the second, third degree again, so for example the Dorian mode (which starts on the 2nd degree) would use this instead:

WHWWWHW

which is the same formula as above, but starting on the second degree.
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Last edited by duncang at Aug 21, 2008,
#3
Do they all fit in with the key of C Major?

yes.

each one is the C major scale just starting off from a different note. for dorian you start on d phrygian e, and so on.

ex. an A dorian mode would be in G major...
#4
I'm pretty sure they do...

I know for sure that E phrygian has the same notes as C Ionian, as in, no sharps or flats...

Yeah - they ARE all C Major, BUT you should still learn each individual scale pattern.
It's the attitude you take towards playing the modes that really give them their own distinct feel.
#5
Quote by duncang
Yes, those modes are all in the key of C major. I'm sure someone will come along with an indepth explanation/link to said explanation in a minute but basically modes basically take the formula of the major scale and start it from a different degree of the scale, so the C major scale uses these notes:

CDEFGAB

If you take those same notes, but start on the second degree (the D), then you get the D Dorian mode:

DEFGAB

And that applies to each mode and each scale degree (so A Aeolian is ABCDEFG, E Phrygian is EFGABCD etc).

thanks

btw i edited the thread i dunno whether you could help with the other question too?
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#6
Quote by wyantsm
Do they all fit in with the key of C Major?

yes.

each one is the C major scale just starting off from a different note. for dorian you start on d phrygian e, and so on.

ex. an A dorian mode would be in G major...

but surely that means that you can play any natural notes on the fretboard (CDEFGAB) and it will be technically correct as you can just say you were using phrygian or whatever. i understand im probably confusing you but im really confused as far as modes are concerned thanks for the help
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#7
Quote by Conca
thanks

btw i edited the thread i dunno whether you could help with the other question too?


(I edited mine to go a little more indepth too)

Well, modes are defined the chords backing them. If you're playing over a progression in C major and you're playing the notes of C major then no matter what, you're playing C major (aka C Ionian). E Phrygian is applied where you are playing using the notes of C major over a progression that resolves on that E. Note that it's not in E major or E minor, but the 'home note' is E.
Quote by justinb904
im more of a social godzilla than chameleon

Quote by MetalMessiah665
Alright, I'll give them a try, Japanese Black Speed rarely disappoints.

Quote by azzemojo
Hmm judging from your pic you'd fit in more with a fat busted tribute.
#8
Quote by duncang
(I edited mine to go a little more indepth too)

Well, modes are defined the chords backing them. If you're playing over a progression in C major and you're playing the notes of C major then no matter what, you're playing C major (aka C Ionian). E Phrygian is applied where you are playing using the notes of C major over a progression that resolves on that E. Note that it's not in E major or E minor, but the 'home note' is E.

so if the E chord is being used a lot in a chord progression in C you would use the phrygian?
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#9
yeah those are the same, but no you cant just start a solo with an E and it'll be Phygrian. you gotta establish tonality first (throw in an E powerchord or something once in a while(as long as your not in Locrian, but thats a different story)). and +1 on the learning the shapes and being in the mindset.

EDIT: and also in E Phygrian try to avoid the C if at all possible
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#10
what do you mean by "establish tonality"?
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#11
Quote by Conca
so if the E chord is being used a lot in a chord progression in C you would use the phrygian?


You could put it that way, yes, but it's about whether or not the progression resolves on the E. If you listen to a chord progression that is in the key of C (as in the notes of the chords are those of C major) but the progression seems to be finished or resolved on the E chord then that is where E Phrygian is applicable. It's still in the key of C but is based around the tonal centre of E.
Quote by justinb904
im more of a social godzilla than chameleon

Quote by MetalMessiah665
Alright, I'll give them a try, Japanese Black Speed rarely disappoints.

Quote by azzemojo
Hmm judging from your pic you'd fit in more with a fat busted tribute.
#12
you gotta make the listener feel like their not just in C major waiting for the root.

and if you don't buy that im just trying to sound smart.
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#13
Quote by duncang
You could put it that way, yes, but it's about whether or not the progression resolves on the E. If you listen to a chord progression that is in the key of C (as in the notes of the chords are those of C major) but the progression seems to be finished or resolved on the E chord then that is where E Phrygian is applicable. It's still in the key of C but is based around the tonal centre of E.

oh right thanks
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#14
Quote by Ribcage
you gotta make the listener feel like their not just in C major waiting for the root.

and if you don't buy that im just trying to sound smart.

lol
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#15
If you're in E Phrygian, you're gonna wanna use an Em7 chord as your tonic chord. Or an E(b9)sus chord. And you're gonna wanna use the notes in that chord as your "safe notes" or whatever you kids are calling it these days. Try a vamp like this, Em7 - FMaj7 to get an idea of phrygian. I know it's not the most popular phrygian progression, but it's good.
#16
Ignore modes. Trying to learn modes before you have a solid grounding in the major scale and diatonic harmony is unnecessary and confusing. For now, all you need to know is that modes are a musical system in their own right, and you are not playing modally just because you start on a different note.
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#18
It's simply, every different note on the major scale represents a different mode, if you start on the second note it's a different mode, start on the third note it's a different mode, simply.
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#19
Quote by gonzaw
I have a question...

Is "modal music" as it is known nowadays derived from greek modal music, ecclesiastic modal music, or is it some jazz invented thing that came afterwards?

The modes are also called the "Church Modes" and were used in Gregorian Chant I believe.
#20
Quote by one vision
The modes are also called the "Church Modes" and were used in Gregorian Chant I believe.


Yeah, but they had different modes, plagal, authentic, hypodorian, etc and didn't have locrian (and some other one I can't remember), so I don't think the modern conception of "mode" is that one...

But greeks also had modes, and I think there were other ones in Renaissance or something, but I heard jazz players developed their own conception but I can't remember which one was which...
#21
Here's what it says in my theory book. It's the official conservatory book, so it's legit.

Modes are the scales that were used by the Ancient Greeks and later organized by Pope Gregory I. Known as the Church Modes, these scales were used throughout the Medieval and Rennaissance periods in the Gregorian Chant of the Roman Catholic Church.

Many modern compositions use the Church modes in their melodies and harmonies as well, and are often used in folk music.

Like major and minor scales, modes consist of eight notes (two tetrachords) and specific tone/semitone patterns. Each mode consists of five semitones and 2 whole tones. The tone on which the mode begins and ends is called a Final.

The four original modes were the Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian and Mixolydian modes.

EDIT: That's the history lesson. With regards to jazz, I don't know.
#22
Quote by one vision
Here's what it says in my theory book. It's the official conservatory book, so it's legit.

Modes are the scales that were used by the Ancient Greeks and later organized by Pope Gregory I. Known as the Church Modes, these scales were used throughout the Medieval and Rennaissance periods in the Gregorian Chant of the Roman Catholic Church.

Many modern compositions use the Church modes in their melodies and harmonies as well, and are often used in folk music.

Like major and minor scales, modes consist of eight notes (two tetrachords) and specific tone/semitone patterns. Each mode consists of five semitones and 2 whole tones. The tone on which the mode begins and ends is called a Final.

The four original modes were the Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian and Mixolydian modes.

EDIT: That's the history lesson. With regards to jazz, I don't know.



Well, I know there wasn't Locrian in Gregorian chant, so someone had to "imput" it or sorts and stuff like it is today (although it was in Ancient greece)...
But I don't know when or who, etc...
And it is confusing with people taking out modes and putting them back again
#23
Quote by Archeo Avis
Ignore modes. Trying to learn modes before you have a solid grounding in the major scale and diatonic harmony is unnecessary and confusing. For now, all you need to know is that modes are a musical system in their own right, and you are not playing modally just because you start on a different note.
Yup. That would be like trying to learn learn multi-variable calculus when you don't really even understand it with one variable.
#24
Quote by Archeo Avis
Ignore modes. Trying to learn modes before you have a solid grounding in the major scale and diatonic harmony is unnecessary and confusing. For now, all you need to know is that modes are a musical system in their own right, and you are not playing modally just because you start on a different note.


I'm gonna have to +1 that. Just focus on the major scale for now. Learn it inside and out. Learn how it works and how it is constructed. Modes can be complicated and are way above my head at the present moment. You don't necessarily have to use modes to write good, original, listenable music. Sure they help, but for the time being, they are not necessary. Just my $0.02
#25
Quote by Ribcage
yeah those are the same, but no you cant just start a solo with an E and it'll be Phygrian. you gotta establish tonality first (throw in an E powerchord or something once in a while(as long as your not in Locrian, but thats a different story)). and +1 on the learning the shapes and being in the mindset.

EDIT: and also in E Phygrian try to avoid the C if at all possible


The C is fine as long as you resolve to B
#26
Quote by one vision
Here's what it says in my theory book. It's the official conservatory book, so it's legit.

Modes are the scales that were used by the Ancient Greeks and later organized by Pope Gregory I. Known as the Church Modes, these scales were used throughout the Medieval and Rennaissance periods in the Gregorian Chant of the Roman Catholic Church.

Many modern compositions use the Church modes in their melodies and harmonies as well, and are often used in folk music.

Like major and minor scales, modes consist of eight notes (two tetrachords) and specific tone/semitone patterns. Each mode consists of five whole tones and 2 semi tones. The tone on which the mode begins and ends is called a Final.

The four original modes were the Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian and Mixolydian modes.

EDIT: That's the history lesson. With regards to jazz, I don't know.

Interesting post. I think there's a typo though and I think I've fixed it.
Si