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#1
Hi,

I joined a cover band a few month ago. Everything was going ok, but a month after I joined the band leader asked me to put money in the band's deposit (100 euro). I don't get payed for mayor gigs either. This money is used to buy beer (I don't even drink during rehearsals) and PA gear. I have a halfstack (Peavey), so i don't need the PA for rehearsals nor for small giggs. We don't do big gigs, and even if we did our PA would be to small.

The thing is, I don't want to pay for PA gear that i never get to use (they don't have guitar mics anyway). Only the singer and keyboardist have used the PA, but every member has to deposit money to pay for it.

What are your oppinions on this matter? If I don't pay they might kick me out. If I leave after I payed (even if they kick me) I won't get the money back.
Last edited by Voya at Aug 22, 2008,
#4
I wouldn't pay them. I would tell them that your part of a band deposit is towards paying to use a studio and stuff. If he needs a PA, that's his business to deal with.
#5
To HighPotency:

I did express the problem today, and they're about to kick me if i don't pay the money. The thing is, I would like to know if it's normal if a band askes money from the members, I'm not that experienced in the way that band's handle their money.
#6
Don't pay for **** you're not using. Pay for your gear, and when it comes to recording everyone chips in. They're screwing you over.
#7
If they want beer they should buy their own beer, cheeky bastards!

But the PA thing, well if everyone agrees that you'll need one, then everyone can split the cost of it.


Stand up for yourself, and if they throw you out, well then you're better off with that. They don't sound like a bunch of guys I'd wanna be in a band with.
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#8
Quote by Voya
To HighPotency:

I did express the problem today, and they're about to kick me if i don't pay the money. The thing is, I would like to know if it's normal if a band askes money from the members, I'm not that experienced in the way that band's handle their money.


A lot of bands do buy gear together(especially PA's) since it is often too expensive for one person to do on their own. HOWEVER, in the cases that this happens, THE BAND owns the PA. That means, if you put money in, part of that PA is now yours. If you leave/get kicked out, they have to give you that money. If I were you, and I was going to pay, I would get a receipt that states how much you paid, as well as a statement signed by all of them that you paid that much money. That way, if they do kick you out, you can still get the cash back. I would also tell them that you're not going to pay for their drinking. If they want to drink at practice, fine, but its on their own damn dime, not yours.

If you don't want to pay, let them kick you out. If they can't be responsible about their gear, then you probably don't want to waste time with them.

Edit: Also, if you do pay, you might want to invest an a guitar mic(you can own your own) and start plugging into that PA. There's no reason why you can't use it, unless you're cranking your Peavey and absolutely can't handle any more volume.

Double Edit: Is the band getting paid for gigs? If so, why aren't you getting a cut of that? And no, them putting all the money made into a "band account" doesn't cut it. The band leader should be taking the pay, and divvying it up to all the guys. What they do with their money is their problem, but don't let them drink away all YOUR money, so that you don't get paid.
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Last edited by kshelt76 at Aug 22, 2008,
#9
From what you've said it all sounds a bit dodgy to me. If it isn't for equipment you desperately need in order to further your band I wouldn't give them any money. Tell them what you've stated here on UG, i.e. You don't get paid for all the gigs you play, you don't use/need the PA for your guitar setup, the PA will be no good for bigger gigs and you don't drink during rehearsals so you don't see why you should buy their beer. If they get all touchy over the subject then you're probably better off finding another band.
#10
It sounds like they are more interested in the lifestyle then the band itself. I'd quit. No point in chipping in money that's not really going into the band, but in your bellies. That is if you're serious about the music.
#11
doesnt sound like a band id want to be in. you dont need a deposit for beer, you just go buy it. if there not your friends and your not expecting some kind of financial return (i.e. future paying gigs) then screw that
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#12
Yeah, I've come up with dubious methods of raising money from idiots before.

Seriously, they want money from you to piss away on beer. They're not friends and they're not musicians that are going anywhere.
#13
Do you see this band as a long term thing, or just a way of getting bit of fun and some cash? If it is long term, talk it out and solve these issues, but be prepared to compromise (and part with cash). If not, I'd leave now before you do put in the money and it gets messy.
#14
Don't pay! If it's not yours then don't pay for it, did they help pay for your guitar? Did they hep pay for your amp? No. You bought your own gear so they should buy their own gear. If they are too cheap to do it themselves and are trying to get your money then give then you need to ask yourself if they are good people to be in a band with. If they want to kick you if you don't give them money then that is horrible and they dont care about the music. They would just be using you for financial value... Free beer and gear...
#15
About the beer: it's not that they get drunk everey rehearsal, it's just 2 or 3 beers a person (not for me since I don't drink beer). But one other thing came up today: the drummer, who owns the rehearsal room (it's his basement) wants to charge the band for use of electricity, which I think is rediculous, I don't charge them for use of gassoline in my car when driving to rehearsal.

But anyway, thanks for the advice, I'll have one last chat with them about this tomorrow and I'll put up some of the opinions from this thread. I'm not intending to pay, so that rehearsal will prolly be my last.
#16
As far as the beer goes, I think it is lame to ask you to pay when you don't drink it. Maybe have whoever is buying beer get a case of Pepsi or a big bottle of orange juice or something too so you'll have something to drink?

Alternately, the money people kick in for beer and PA needs to be separated out into how much for each. If they're not shifty, they won't mind being accountable. Deduct your beer portion, but kick in for the PA.

It is pretty common for a band to all kick in for a PA. I'd personally just do it and go with the flow. The alternative, and we did this for a while, is everyone kicks in for a rental on a rehearsal space where the PA is provided. Again... everybody in some way or another uses it. It is to benefit the band.

When we do shows, sell CDs and merch, etc., we sink the money into a band account. Originally, we each fronted $300 for our CD duplication, but we paid ourselves back for it once the CDs started to sell and we had the money back in our account. Now, we have an account that pays for our web hosting, sonic bids, merch orders, etc. without anyone having to kick in anymore. The main thing is, we're reinvesting in the band. We don't pay ourselves. We practice at our guitar player's place, and he already owns a PA. Before that, though, we dutifully kicked in our $15/wk for rehearsal space from our own pockets.

Now... what happens when someone leaves? Okay... I'd say you would own a portion of the PA. Depending on how much you kicked in, it would be pretty petty for you to ask for it back. You'd be forcing the band to pay out of pocket (unless there IS a band account), or forcing the band to liquidate it to pay you off, and then buy another. If you were paying for rehearsal space, it would be a non-issue, as you can't ask for that back. Either way... it is money you spent and used. I dunno,... tough call.

Now, if the band breaks up, then nobody owns the PA because the band did, then the prudent thing to do would be to sell it and split the money equally.

When our guitar player quit, we gave him 25% of everything we had - band money, remaining CDs, shirts, stickers, etc. We didn't invest in any gear, so it was pretty easy to just reach into boxes and the bank account and pull stuff out.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

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#17
Quote by Voya
the drummer, who owns the rehearsal room (it's his basement) wants to charge the band for use of electricity,




Now THAT is worrying. I'd now say GTFO.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#18
Quote by axemanchris
Now... what happens when someone leaves? Okay... I'd say you would own a portion of the PA. Depending on how much you kicked in, it would be pretty petty for you to ask for it back. You'd be forcing the band to pay out of pocket (unless there IS a band account), or forcing the band to liquidate it to pay you off, and then buy another. If you were paying for rehearsal space, it would be a non-issue, as you can't ask for that back. Either way... it is money you spent and used. I dunno,... tough call.


Well if you are buying it for the band then they should sell it and share the money but if you are buying it and then the band all split up it should go to one person. The only way i would do something like that is if i KNEW i would get my money back.

Its not the same as buying practice time and then wanting the money back after you split because you have USED the time and it has been and gone but the band wouldn't have used all of the PA (if you know what I mean) So really you should deserve more of the PA which the band didn't get so you should get money IMO
#19
Part of me agrees with you. As I say... tough call.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#20
The singer has to pay a PA.... it's his instrument!
Did the rest of the band pay for your guitar or amp?
Actually, right now I would quit the band....really
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#21
If it's a vocal PA, it's the vocalist's instrument and he should pay for it, if it's a band PA, where the entire band go through it, then the entire band should split the cost.
But it's always better to simply put a percentage of gig earnings to one side and saving up for a PA that way, rather than just demanding that everyone forks up some cash pronto.

As for them wanting you to pay towards their beer, tell 'em to go an' take a running jump.
#22
Wow I actually feel lucky...

The drummer's stepdad generously lets us use his PA and monitors for practicing. Maybe thats why I kiss up to the drummer sometimes.... Oh right he doesnt write any of the music so I guess that's fair!

EDIT: don't freaking pay. these guys are cutting you out to buy booze. and the drummer charging for electricity?! these guys aren't about the music, they are about the money.
#23
Dude, your band seems, quite f***ed up, just leave the band , you'll find sth else...
#24
I wouldn't pay.If they want money for Beer,tell them to buy their own,and if you're not using the P.A. then why should you have to pitch in towards it?If the PA is already paid in full then they're just using you and I would tell them to go **** themselves and get somebody else.
#25
My band does this so everybody can get their gear faster but if it was just some random cover band I'd tell them to **** off I guess.
#26
First off, tell your drummer the practice place is HIS repsoncibilty, not the bands, so he has to pay the electricity.

Next, tell them to buy beer with their own money because you don't drink it. Tell them to only use your money to buy something for you.

Finally, if the PA is for the band then like others have said, chip in, which you have done. But if you see you are the only one chipping in, pull the money out of the account.

If you want to blackmail them for kicking you out for refusal to pay, take ALL of the money out of the account. Showed them for being assholes.
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#27
There's something just plain fishy here. The drummer wants money for his electricity, the band wants money for beer and a PA(which wouldn't be unreasonable alone). Sounds like a bunch of jerks or a strange kind of ponzi scheme.
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#28
Am I the only one who thinks the drummer is justified in asking for money to help pay his electricity bill?
Have you guys any idea how much electricity a couple of guitar amps and a PA system can suck up in the average (about three hours) practice session and how much that electricity costs?
So everyone should say 'Fu*k you, you're stuck with the bill we ran up at your house and we ain't giving you a penny?'
To one of your own band members?
How fu*ked up is that?
Why would you use and treat a fellow band member like that?
It's simple, any costs that the band incurs as a band, should be paid as a band, including the band's percentage of the electricity costs of the place where the band rehearses, and the band's percentage of the phone bill that was run up while some poor band member was ringing every venue within a 50 mile radius trying to get some gigs for the band.

Stop acting like douch bags people, pay your way and re-pay your debts, that way, no one hassles you about the money you owe or calls your moral attitude into question later down the line.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Aug 25, 2008,
#29
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Am I the only one who thinks the drummer is justified in asking for money to help pay his electricity bill?


It's probably the fair thing to do. I'm used to paying out the rear for electricity to run 5 computers and such, so I didn't really think much about it.

You have experience with bands, would it be easier on everyone to take off a percentage of everyone's gig pay for expenses than to ask people to chip in? I have a variable income, so there would be times when someone like me simply wouldn't have the green.
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#30
If you don't need a PA don't pay for it. Ask if they will pay for strings everytime you break one. The beer thing is ridiculous and if they kick you out for it you'd be better off without them.
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#31
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Am I the only one who thinks the drummer is justified in asking for money to help pay his electricity bill?
Have you guys any idea how much electricity a couple of guitar amps and a PA system can suck up in the average (about three hours) practice session and how much that electricity costs?
So everyone should say 'Fu*k you, you're stuck with the bill we ran up at your house and we ain't giving you a penny?'
To one of your own band members?
How fu*ked up is that?
Why would you use and treat a fellow band member like that?
It's simple, any costs that the band incurs as a band, should be paid as a band, including the band's percentage of the electricity costs of the place where the band rehearses, and the band's percentage of the phone bill that was run up while some poor band member was ringing every venue within a 50 mile radius trying to get some gigs for the band.

Stop acting like douch bags people, pay your way and re-pay your debts, that way, no one hassles you about the money you owe or calls your moral attitude into question later down the line.


if its 10 cents per kilowatt hour, and lets say you've got some kind of gigantic PA thats and a bvunch of amps that alltogether drain 10 kilowatts.... thats $1 per hour...$3 for a practice session

and I seriously doubt that you've got 10kilowatts of sound equipment....something like an AC unit is what...3 or 4 kilowatts and thats way more than any amp would have

get them to buy you a beer and be done with it
Last edited by seljer at Aug 25, 2008,
#32
Quote by seljer
if its 10 cents per kilowatt hour, and lets say you've got some kind of gigantic PA thats and a bvunch of amps that alltogether drain 10 kilowatts.... thats $1 per hour...$3 for a practice session

The 2006 average price of residential electricity in the United States was 10.4 cents per k, that was two years ago so I expect it's probably more by now.
But OK, for easy reckoning, let's say that it's 10c. a k. and let's say it works out at $3 a session like you said, if you rehearse twice a week like most bands do, that comes to $6 a week, or $24, per month.
Let's say that his average electricity bill comes to about about $60 a month, nearly half of that bill will have been run up by the band, why shouldn't they pay for it? How would you feel about paying out $24 per month for your band to rehearse, but not recieve anything back from the band? $288 payed out, every year by one person, just because the band say they don't wanna pay their fair share?

Gimme a break.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Aug 26, 2008,
#33
Quote by SlackerBabbath
The 2006 average price of residential electricity in the United States was 10.4 cents per k, that was two years ago so I expect it's probably more by now.
But OK, for easy reckoning, let's say that it's 10c. a k. and let's say it works out at $3 a session like you said, if you rehearse twice a week like most bands do, that comes to $6 a week, or $24, per month.
Let's say that his average electricity bill comes to about about $60 a month, nearly half of that bill will have been run up by the band, why shouldn't they pay for it? How would you feel about paying out $24 per month for your band to rehearse, but not recieve anything back from the band? $288 payed out, every year by one person, just because the band say they don't wanna pay their fair share?

Gimme a break.


a) 90% of UG has their parents pay their bills anyway
b) I mentioned GIGANTIC PA system there, I guess I wasnt really conservative in those estimates....you're not going to use that much power playing in your garage....thats more like an outdoor concert for 1000 people

you've got what....a 50watt guitar amp, a 200 watt bass amp and a 400watt PA system, even though consume a little more than what they put out, I doubt you'll be even breaking 1kilowatt

$3 a month, not per session
Last edited by seljer at Aug 26, 2008,
#34
if a "band fund" is used primarily for beer then this band will end as rubbish anyways. The only thing I can possibly think of the need to have one for is to save for studio time or merch.

tell the guys to establish their own personal beer funds because it ain't got jack to do with business.
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#36
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Am I the only one who thinks the drummer is justified in asking for money to help pay his electricity bill?
Have you guys any idea how much electricity a couple of guitar amps and a PA system can suck up in the average (about three hours) practice session and how much that electricity costs?
So everyone should say 'Fu*k you, you're stuck with the bill we ran up at your house and we ain't giving you a penny?'
To one of your own band members?
How fu*ked up is that?
Why would you use and treat a fellow band member like that?
It's simple, any costs that the band incurs as a band, should be paid as a band, including the band's percentage of the electricity costs of the place where the band rehearses, and the band's percentage of the phone bill that was run up while some poor band member was ringing every venue within a 50 mile radius trying to get some gigs for the band.

Stop acting like douch bags people, pay your way and re-pay your debts, that way, no one hassles you about the money you owe or calls your moral attitude into question later down the line.


I agree with you slacker, although as stated below it is probably fairly cheap and shouldn't be a big issue, if I was the drummer I would be happy if they simply bought my beer for each practice, and it would cost about the same....
Really, I think the drummer is probably asking for the $ because the rest of the band is asking for money to pay for their ****, sort of an "ok I'll pay that but you are going to have to start paying me for the practice space" thing.

Really, to the OP, this band sounds like a pile of crap and I would go ahead and cut your losses...

Splitting the cost of a PA is not a big deal in itself, but all this other stuff going on just sounds shady and likely the band will fall apart soon anyways.

I mean its one thing if say you guys had a band fund, and had like 700 bucks in there and needed another 200 to get a PA to play this big show that you had coming up, that would be a proper circumstance to ask for everyone to chip in. But if you are already playing shows and you don't use a PA...why get one now? just to feel special?? If you are going to start needing a PA because you are playing larger venues and what not...well what happened to all the money you guys made from your past shows?

I dunno, sounds fishy and not like a band I would be a part of. I guess I'm lucky in that I have a good job and can afford to shell out cash for gear when I want it, I am just unlucky in that I can't find any decent band members heh...
#37
I've quit the band yesterday. We had a discussion and like I thought would happen they said I had to choose, either I pay, or I'm kicked from the band. So I just left.

But I'm prolly better off without them. I really didn't feel like paying the vocalists gear (although I would have contributed if it was a situation where she payed the biggest part of the cost or if we really needed the PA) and I certainly don't like being forced into paying for their beer or other stuff.

Apparently they also bought food and occasional "gifts" for eachother from the band fund, so I guess music didn't came first with the other guys.
#38
TS I'd like an answer for this.

Are you the only one donating to the band fund? Or is the rest of the band giving up some of their cash.

Edit - Nevermind. You get your money back?
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#39
Quote by Voya
I've quit the band yesterday. We had a discussion and like I thought would happen they said I had to choose, either I pay, or I'm kicked from the band. So I just left.

But I'm prolly better off without them. I really didn't feel like paying the vocalists gear (although I would have contributed if it was a situation where she payed the biggest part of the cost or if we really needed the PA) and I certainly don't like being forced into paying for their beer or other stuff.

Apparently they also bought food and occasional "gifts" for eachother from the band fund, so I guess music didn't came first with the other guys.


Good call bro, sounds like a worthless bunch of people.
#40
You don't have to pay for the singer's gear, it's like if you had to pay drummer's new cymbal's, the P.A. should belong and be paid by the one who's using it, get your money back.
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