#1
Both pretty similar spec amps with tight bottom end which do you think is best?!?
Last edited by KittehShred at Aug 23, 2008,
#2
I was in this exact predicament a few months ago, but lost my job.

The reality I found was that for recording a record, I'd prefer the Framus in the studio without a doubt.

For playing live however, I'd take the Savage.

They both are pretty tight amps, but I'd have to say the Cobra is tighter in the low end.
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#3
At that point it almost doesn't matter, if you want a tight amp either will suit you just fine. It's more important to think about voicing, durability, versatility, etc because either is gonna be just as tight as you want.
#4
Quote by Say Ocean
At that point it almost doesn't matter, if you want a tight amp either will suit you just fine. It's more important to think about voicing, durability, versatility, etc because either is gonna be just as tight as you want.



obviously, i didnt state i just wanted a tight amp just illustrated that they were tighter than the 5150s etc.
#5
Quote by rwalby9
I was in this exact predicament a few months ago, but lost my job.

The reality I found was that for recording a record, I'd prefer the Framus in the studio without a doubt.

For playing live however, I'd take the Savage.

They both are pretty tight amps, but I'd have to say the Cobra is tighter in the low end.


why savage live?!?
#6
Personally much prefer the Cobra to the Savage. The Cobra has a far more complex 3-D sound to it, and it gets so brutally aggressive at volume.

Didn't really get on with the Savage at all. The closest competitor to the Cobra from the ENGL range is the Invader 100 IMO, though it has a pretty different voicing.
#7
Quote by KittehShred
why savage live?!?
You realize that Cobras are made in China? Yes, a $2,400 amp is manufactured in China.. When paying that much for an amp, I'd want the best.

I think the Savage sounds better in a live situation, and its a bit more versatile than the Cobra. And its going to be more reliable.

You can literally pull off Framus tolex by putting your nail in it. Its thin.
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#8
Quote by rwalby9
You realize that Cobras are made in China? Yes, a $2,400 amp is manufactured in China.. When paying that much for an amp, I'd want the best.

I think the Savage sounds better in a live situation, and its a bit more versatile than the Cobra. And its going to be more reliable.

You can literally pull off Framus tolex by putting your nail in it. Its thin.



For all the speculation about the Framuses build quality, it's quite rare to find people that have had reliability issues with them. Certainly no more common than with other amps in that price range. I do agree that the tolex is very thin, and not hardwearing, but the cabinet itself is strong, and I'd recommend anyone gigging high end tube amps to invest in flightcases anyway.

That said, the Engls are built like tanks.
#9
im not too fussed about the build quality that can be sorted but i want something that is as close to a soldano hot rod or engl se sort of quality without paying the extra cash. I just cant face spending 2 grand on an amp even though i could get the cash together. Its tight but open sounding, and has its own character and its lively.
Last edited by KittehShred at Aug 23, 2008,
#10
Quote by KittehShred
im not too fussed about the build quality that can be sorted but i want something that is as close to a soldano hot rod or engl se sort of quality without paying the extra cash. I just cant face spending 2 grand on an amp even though i could get the cash together. Its tight but open sounding, and has its own character and its lively.
If you don't need a clean channel, a Soldano Avenger (newer hot rod 50) can be found for $1,000-$1,400 used.
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#11
just opinion, but I gotta vote Savage. The Framus are really nice sounding amps, but I have issues with the build quality for the price. I know a couple people personally that have had issues with the build quality. Consider all the bands that will only use them in the studio now too. One friend of mine was changing preamp tubes, and the PCB mounted pre sockets lifted from the solder joints. Another friend's mid pot just stopped working. They are tiny pots, the tolex is really thin, and the silkscreen lettering on the Cobra faceplate wipes completely off if you rub too hard. The build quality has decreased significantly since the earlier revisions IMO, the earlier ones were hand wired in Germany and had flying leads and chassis mounted sockets/pots.

Where are you located btw? A Soldano hot rod should be in the same pricerange. If you are in the states, you are looking at $1500-1800 used for either the Dragon or Savage anyway.

EDIT: since this thread got linked, just gotta say, I really like the sound of these amps, just personal experiences turned me off of them. May have been isolated incidents, but it's just what I have seen. I'm the reason those friends bought their amps, and feel kind of responsible for them having issues with them.
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Last edited by Erock503 at Aug 27, 2008,
#12
Quote by rwalby9
If you don't need a clean channel, a Soldano Avenger (newer hot rod 50) can be found for $1,000-$1,400 used.


not in europe my friend! 2700 USD more like. the cobra is 2200 USD here


edit-actually the avenger is a little more 2300 but the hot rod 50 is 2700
Last edited by KittehShred at Aug 23, 2008,
#13
Quote by KittehShred
not in europe my friend! 2700 USD more like. the cobra is 2200 USD here


edit-actually the avenger is a little more 2300 but the hot rod 50 is 2700
Just get the Savage then.
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#14
i actually just noticed the randall rm100 has gone down in price a lot so i need to think about everything. that has great modules.
#15
I vote Engl.
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#16
i haven't tried the framus (or the savage ), but if you're in europe, you have a couple of other options too.

I really dug the brunetti xlr-evo when i tried it; very versatile, and sounded really, really good. I know in the UK you can pick one up for about £1000, which is cheaper than either the framus or the engl, but prices may be slightly different depending on what part of europe you're in.

A koch powertone is bound to be worth a look too- i haven't tried it, but i liked the other kochs i've tried.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#17
I believe the Cobra is a Class A amp, while the Savage is a Class A/B.
If that helps.
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#18
i doubt very much that the cobra is class A.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
Quote by Dave_Mc
i doubt very much that the cobra is class A.


Agreed, a 100 watt class A amp is a somewhat unfeasible.
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#20
Quote by Dave_Mc
I really dug the brunetti xlr-evo when i tried it; very versatile, and sounded really, really good. I know in the UK you can pick one up for about £1000, which is cheaper than either the framus or the engl, but prices may be slightly different depending on what part of


I've heard some great things about the Brunettis, I'd love to try one. Sounds like they've got some great innovations on the go.

Quote by Van Noord
I believe the Cobra is a Class A amp, while the Savage is a Class A/B.
If that helps.


Erm, no.
#21
Quote by Nolly
I've heard some great things about the Brunettis, I'd love to try one. Sounds like they've got some great innovations on the go.



yeah, i've only been able to try one (and the shop which stocked them has since closed, so it looks like i won't get to try any more ), but it was really, really nice. there have only been about 2-3 amps i've tried since i got my savage se which would have had me second-guessing my choice, had i tried it before i purchased the savage se- this was one of them.

though, i've heard that the pirata (i think that's the one) wasn't all that great- haven't tried it though. the xlr-evo was kickass though, and decent money too (around a grand for the head). don't get me wrong, that's still expensive, but were it made in the USA, it'd be £2k easily.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
Quote by rwalby9
You realize that Cobras are made in China? Yes, a $2,400 amp is manufactured in China.. When paying that much for an amp, I'd want the best.

I think the Savage sounds better in a live situation, and its a bit more versatile than the Cobra. And its going to be more reliable.

You can literally pull off Framus tolex by putting your nail in it. Its thin.

I think you're over exaggerating a bit. I don't have one scratch in my Framus head and the cab I use (Randall) a good few tolex scratches. I've had mine for just about a year now and the only problem I've encountered is a fussy FX loop.

In regards to it being made in China, the website states that its made in Germany, which is where the company is based.

For those saying its around 1700 used, that's if you don't shop around well. I got mine for that much BRAND NEW shipped to my house. You just have to look around. I got mine from a store called Galucci Music.

TS- Whichever amp you get you'll be thrilled with. I personally prefer the sound of the Framus, it's a bit tighter IMO and more agressivie. The distortion is super clean as well and if you crank up all the gain the clarity is still great.
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#23
1. Don't forget the Dragon. I know a few people who have informed me that it sounds much better than the cobra.

2. As mentioned, there are other amps to consider for the price. Examples would be the aforementioned Brunetti XLR-Evo, the Engl Steve Morse Sig (Oddly, it's cheaper than the invader which it's based off of :confused, or perhaps something by VHT (I don't know european prices. Here, the Deliverance and Sig X both fall in your price range, and Pitbull UL's are available used in there as well). As a note on VHT, I was at a small concert. One band used Framus Cobras. The next used VHT Deliverances. The VHT's sounded WAY better than the cobras. Granted, guitars, micing, and EQ's affect this. Just saying though.

3. As a tie into the previous note, why were these the only two amps you were looking at?

4. Engl. I've heard some tones from the savage, though they were recorded songs and so could have had post EQ and such, that dominated almost anything I've heard.

5. Honestly, it comes down to which you like the tone of more, as they sound quite different.
Last edited by TheShred201 at Aug 25, 2008,
#24
Out of the two, i'd go for the ENGL; great cleans, insane distortion, and like other german amps (diezel's the first that comes to mind), it's built like a tank. Also, check out the Dragon from Framus (sounds better than the Cobra to me), or VHT. The Deliverance series rocks, and the Pittbull series is just disturbingly insane and pretty damn versatile.
#25
Im a Cobra owner and I can tell you its tight as ever. But Im sure the Engl is just as good. This is like asking whos is hotter. Jessica Alba or Jessica Beil.
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