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#1
I find the only way I can get a metal tone is by scooping the mids and adding treble.


I set the mids to about 2-3 because 0 has no definition but at 2 or 3 it feels alot wholer. The trebles make it very present and in your face, I set them around 8.. Likewise, if I try to be generous with the mids and put the treble anywhere between 4 and 8(normal), then the most i can get is a rock tone. I'm using an active eq on a Peavey Ultra 120.

I'm using a digital multieffects in the fx loop to add even more eq. Without the additional eq, it doesn't sound very metal at all, even with it scooped. On the multieffects, I scoop the mids EVEN MORE, and have treble around 10 o clock.(When I cut back on the treble though the multifx, it seems to have the same effects as cutting mids, it's very strange).


Maybe I just suck
#2
It totally depends on the amp man. On my 5150 I couldn't stand the mids over 3, but on my new ENGL I love them around 1 o'clock.

Now I'm all for keeping mids low, but it really is on an amp by amp case. Some amps need them, some amps don't. This also applies to how amps cut. Some will cut just fine without a ton of mids, and some need more to be heard well.
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#3
from what ive found this is more of a question of your ear developing. i think the problem with a lot of metal guitarists is they try to emulate a cd which has huge bass frequencies and multi layered guitars. they try to compensate by scooping. Just go easy on everything...the 666 dialtone..everything at 6.
#4
If it sounds good in a full band situation then it is no big deal.
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#5
Scooping your mids just gives your highs and lows a more pronounced, punchier sound. But it has a hard time cutting through a live mix and sounds kind of blegh... in general.

Idk, I usually keep my mids at 7 or so.
#6
^Yeah, I found cutting mids completely did not let it come through drums and bass and vocals etc, but like i said, i turned it on a little bit, just enough to cut through all the other instruments. Any more and it wouldnt be metal enough :/
#7
Scooping isn't bad at all. The only problem that can be encountered is when you're in a band and it doesn't stand out enough.

Yes, it is used for a lot for metal (at least modern metal) due to the tone it provides.

Also, higher mids do get a rock tone... that's what's used in rock music.
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#8
hey man my metal tone is

mids like 8
trebel 8
bass low maybe 3 or 4

its thrashy and you get a nice crunch from the mids
valvertornix nu metal setting (mesa tone)
#9
TS, maybe try to ask what some other people are using for their XXX metal settings? If you're concerned enough about it, that is. I think the Ultra was an early version of the XXX.
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Currently amp-less!

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#10
Quote by injected
^Yeah, I found cutting mids completely did not let it come through drums and bass and vocals etc, but like i said, i turned it on a little bit, just enough to cut through all the other instruments. Any more and it wouldnt be metal enough :/


If you're in a metal band then its probably fine.

I like having a fair amount of mids, it gives my guitar a more "woody" tone and my sound a more vocal quality.
#11
The guitar is a very "middy" instrument. Scooping the mids too much risks your guitar not cutting through the mix well.
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#12
It depends entirely on what your amp is. My mids never go over 5 because that just sounds horrible.
#13
Almost every todays metal album has lots of mids on the guitars.I hate it,the scooped mids sound so dark.For example Cannibal corpse on Tomb of the mutilated sounded dark and heavy,on The Wretched Spawn they just sound like Lamb of God.Ofcourse its just my oppinion
#14
Scooping mids isnt bad, it's a bandwagon people flame on Ug. Just like spiders, stereotypes, stereotype metal bands, marshalls, gibsons, etc I could go on.
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#15
Quote by DSchmitty
Scooping mids isnt bad, it's a bandwagon people flame on Ug. Just like spiders, stereotypes, stereotype metal bands, marshalls, gibsons, etc I could go on.

well, not really. scooping out the entire midrange by turning the mid EQ knob down low is bad, however, if your amp has a scoop button or contour knob you can scoop out only a selection of midrange frequencies and still give that punchy tone, its ok. i have a small scoop in the lower-midrange on my overdrive pedal and it cuts through the mix fine.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#16
Quote by Horlicks
It depends entirely on what your amp is. My mids never go over 5 because that just sounds horrible.


+1.
Depends greatly on the amp.
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#17
for me playing metal I use as less mids as possible. Basically I start out at like 2 and turn it up until I can hear myself well in the mix with the band. Currently i'm at around 4. Some people here will tell ya you need tons of mids but as long as you are being heard and cutting through then you are good. Once you find that sweet spot.
#18
Quote by xxXshredderXxx
i scoop

what now? some little computer nerd fags gonna ****en "flame me" well why doesnt someone hand me a "flame sheild" incase i get "pwned" cause im a "n00blet"

****en get real.

i think whats going to happen is you'll get banned for trolling. lol.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#19
Quote by Blompcube
well, not really. scooping out the entire midrange by turning the mid EQ knob down low is bad, however, if your amp has a scoop button or contour knob you can scoop out only a selection of midrange frequencies and still give that punchy tone, its ok. i have a small scoop in the lower-midrange on my overdrive pedal and it cuts through the mix fine.


From your profile, you also have the jackhammer?
The contour controls are actually really good - I set contour + contour freq to halfway. Nice "scooped" sound, while still easily cutting through.
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Quote by Doppelgänger
You could always just sleep beside your refrigerator.

Guitar:
- Ibanez S670FM w/ JB
- Fender 'Lite Ash' Stratocaster
- Fender '72 Deluxe Telecaster
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Amp:
- Laney VC15

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#20
Quote by Blompcube
i think whats going to happen is you'll get banned for trolling. lol.



oh dear.


but seriously, why would i get banned for that?


honestly, how is that bad?

i see people always saying arogant comments like that, and they never get banned
#21
Quote by Simsimius
From your profile, you also have the jackhammer?
The contour controls are actually really good - I set contour + contour freq to halfway. Nice "scooped" sound, while still easily cutting through.

mine are both at about 10 o'clock, the original reason for me using the contour control is because my mid-heavy settings on my amp made it sound really boxy otherwise. As solidsnake15 said, its a matter of finding the sweet spot - and in this case, before i scooped the mids on the pedal, it was taking the sweet spot a little too far.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#22
Quote by Blompcube
mine are both at about 10 o'clock, the original reason for me using the contour control is because my mid-heavy settings on my amp made it sound really boxy otherwise. As solidsnake15 said, its a matter of finding the sweet spot - and in this case, before i scooped the mids on the pedal, it was taking the sweet spot a little too far.


Interesting. "Too far"? That term confuses me somewhat
Sunn O))):
Quote by Doppelgänger
You could always just sleep beside your refrigerator.

Guitar:
- Ibanez S670FM w/ JB
- Fender 'Lite Ash' Stratocaster
- Fender '72 Deluxe Telecaster
- Arbiter LP Jr. Doublecut
Amp:
- Laney VC15

'72 Tele Appreciation Group
RIP DIO
#23
I personally am against the banning thing unless it's something extreme. I mean i'm not offended easily though and some people are. I mean if I don't like something I just ignore it. The moderators aren't to bad though. It's the people who want to suck them off thats pretty annoying. Everytime you say anything they say "reported!" so the forum police are pretty annoying. If I was a mod those would be the people I banned. lol
#24
Quote by Simsimius
Interesting. "Too far"? That term confuses me somewhat

i think i worded that wrong - i got the sweet spot for the mids on my amp. then when i switch on the pedal and theres too much... i should really have said it "ruined" it as opposed to taking it too far.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#25
Quote by Blompcube
i think i worded that wrong - i got the sweet spot for the mids on my amp. then when i switch on the pedal and theres too much... i should really have said it "ruined" it as opposed to taking it too far.


Oh! ok.
Makes sense now.
Sunn O))):
Quote by Doppelgänger
You could always just sleep beside your refrigerator.

Guitar:
- Ibanez S670FM w/ JB
- Fender 'Lite Ash' Stratocaster
- Fender '72 Deluxe Telecaster
- Arbiter LP Jr. Doublecut
Amp:
- Laney VC15

'72 Tele Appreciation Group
RIP DIO
#26
Quote by solidsnake15
I personally am against the banning thing unless it's something extreme. I mean i'm not offended easily though and some people are. I mean if I don't like something I just ignore it. The moderators aren't to bad though. It's the people who want to suck them off thats pretty annoying. Everytime you say anything they say "reported!" so the forum police are pretty annoying. If I was a mod those would be the people I banned. lol

they post that because its part of the rules - you see a bad thread, you report it and post *reported* so that people know its been reported - otherwise the mods will get hundreds of reports of the same thread and it annoys them. i've moderated forums before and i know how annoying it is when some spammer posts some pr0n links and all of a sudden you have 673 new messages in your inbox which are notifications from the forums, all reports from the same thread.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#27
Yeah I understand that but if you are going and sending e-mails reporting people you are probably easily offended and have nothing better to do. I'd say most of us that just get on here when were bored and talk about gear and have fun really don't give a crap what someoen on the internet says. If you do place importance on what they say ya got issues.
#28
Quote by solidsnake15
Yeah I understand that but if you are going and sending e-mails reporting people you are probably easily offended and have nothing better to do. I'd say most of us that just get on here when were bored and talk about gear and have fun really don't give a crap what someoen on the internet says. If you do place importance on what they say ya got issues.

without moderation this forum would be completely trashed with goatse, links to 2 girls 1 cup, etc etc etc. i don't want it to turn into that, so i want to do the best i can to make myself useful - its not about getting in the moderators good books - its about wanting to post on a user-friendly forum which we wouldn't have if everyone had your attitude towards it. its helpful to report bad threads, and it doesn't instantly mean you're backseat-moderating.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#29
Thats not what I meant. I just mean on harmony central for example no one hardly ever gets banned. Not for the same stuff they do here anyway. They talk about everything there. I mean here if someone says youre genre of music sucks or your gear sucks they'll call it gear bashing and send ya a warning. I mean c'mon.... If that offends you like I said... ya got issues. But I'm done i'm user friendly too! So i dont want to argue. Thats just what I think. If someone is spamming the site they should be banned. If someone says your amp sucks... grow some balls and deal with it.
#30
I usually like to keep my mids low. I like more noisy, sharp industrial tones...
So i usually go for bass at around 10-12 o'clock, mids at around 9o'clock and treble at around 1o'clock.
#31
Quote by solidsnake15
Thats not what I meant. I just mean on harmony central for example no one hardly ever gets banned. Not for the same stuff they do here anyway. They talk about everything there. I mean here if someone says youre genre of music sucks or your gear sucks they'll call it gear bashing and send ya a warning. I mean c'mon.... If that offends you like I said... ya got issues. But I'm done i'm user friendly too! So i dont want to argue. Thats just what I think. If someone is spamming the site they should be banned. If someone says your amp sucks... grow some balls and deal with it.

i hardly think its reasonable that someone should ask "whats some good settings for pop punk?" and everyone says "volume on 0 because pop punk is ****", which is the reason people get warned/banned for stuff like that. although xxXshredderXxx post hasn't attracted a bunch of angry responses yet so i may have been proved wrong, but it certainly seemed like he was trying to cause trouble on the forums - luckily, the only "trouble" he caused was this sensible, mature discussion... which is off topic, so i'm gonna leave it at that
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#32
Heres my amp settings that allows me a lot of versatility for metal

Gain- 10
Treble- 9
Mids- 4
Bass- 9
Better, Faster, Stronger

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#34
Im not saying that the mids should be all the way open, but scooping (mids 0 bass high trebble high) is always bad for your tone anyway.
In a band situation, the highs get lost in the drums cymbals, and the low gets lost in the bass players tones. So you dont hear the guitar anymore. Thats why you cant cut through the mix.

I use these settings on my 6505 (second channel)
Gain: 3
Low: 6
mid: 8
high: 3
resonance: 8
presence: 3

^That, my friends, is a killer setting. Especially on high volumes.
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Last edited by LP_CL at Aug 24, 2008,
#35
Quote by LP_CL
Im not saying that the mids should be all the way open, but scooping (mids 0 bass high trebble high) is always bad for your tone anyway.
In a band situation, the highs get lost in the drums cymbals, and the low gets lost in the bass players tones. So you dont hear the guitar anymore. Thats why you cant cut through the mix.


Cutting mids to 0 seems stupid IMO.
A slight cut is perfectly fine, but too much can't be too good.
Sunn O))):
Quote by Doppelgänger
You could always just sleep beside your refrigerator.

Guitar:
- Ibanez S670FM w/ JB
- Fender 'Lite Ash' Stratocaster
- Fender '72 Deluxe Telecaster
- Arbiter LP Jr. Doublecut
Amp:
- Laney VC15

'72 Tele Appreciation Group
RIP DIO
#36
Scooping mids is dumb because no one can hear you. Mids lower than bass and treble is not necessarily scooped. When people say scooped is bad they mean someone has their amp set like: Mids: -4 Treb: 34 Bass:20 and then they have a graphic eq in the shape of a smiley face.
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#37
The irritation with scooping comes from those of us who get tired of new players thinking: "it's time for the br00talz!!!!" then proceeding to more or less dime bass and treble while zeroing mids, which is usually a tonal abomination and hurts the ears.
There's nothing inherently wrong with some scoop, you do what you have to do to get the tone you want out of the amp you have. It's just that many of the scoopers are beginners who haven't developed an ear for tone yet.

I don't see anything wrong with an occasional crack about scooping either as long as it's in good fun and told to people intelligent enough to figure out that there are no absolute rules for equing other than, do what sounds right.

Plus I love my mids with all my heart and will furiously defend them! (see even this is a joke, as we all know "mids" can mean a lot of different things as well).
#38
Quote by Kevin Saale
Scooping mids is dumb because no one can hear you. Mids lower than bass and treble is not necessarily scooped. When people say scooped is bad they mean someone has their amp set like: Mids: -4 Treb: 34 Bass:20 and then they have a graphic eq in the shape of a smiley face.

That's just dumb, who would you scoop on the parametric EQ AND the graphic EQ at the same time?
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#39
tuning has alot to do with how you eq also. standard tuning a little scooping of the mids really makes a guitar sound heavier. but if your in drop tuning you need to keep some mids in there to cut thru the mix.
#40
Quote by aznrockerdude
That's just dumb, who would you scoop on the parametric EQ AND the graphic EQ at the same time?


A moron. Someone who hates their listeners with such a passion that he attempts to rape their soul with hideous tone.
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