#1
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Strange-News/Baby-Whale-Colin-Lost-Off-Coast-Of-Australia-Is-Put-Down/Article/200808315084206?lpos=Strange%2BNews_3&lid=ARTICLE_15084206_Baby%2BWhale%2BColin%2BLost%2BOff%2BCoast%2BOf%2BAustralia%2BIs%2BPut%2BDown

I'm sure you are all aware of this story that has made worldwide headlines. If you have been following, you will be aware that after attempts to escort the whale out of the harbour failed, the decision was made to put the whale to sleep, much to the protests and dismay of many animal rights activist groups.

Seeing these protests, and their arguments against, labelling it callous, brutal, sick, cruel etc I am struck with the irony of this. What seperates man from beast? Why do mankind take the stance of 'putting animals to sleep' when they are sick, or in severe distress? I'm sure many of you had a dog, cat, rabbit etc that had to be put to sleep at some stage or another. If the animal was going to endure inevitable agony and slow death, then why not do it a favour and stop the suffering?

Now, if a person is terminally ill, mankind insists on postponing the death for as long as possible, regardless of the level of suffering. My uncle recently died of cancer, and before he actually died the Dr's were formulating a plan to get him home, pumped full of drugs to enjoy the last few months he had left at home. He would have been in terrible agony throughout, but there was talk of a new drug that would maybe give him a couple of more months. No hope of surviving, just postponing the inevitable death a little longer.

After witnessing my uncle, if I ever get a terminal form of cancer, I'd want my suffering (and those around me being forced to watch the steady decline in health, mobility and independance) to be ended as soon as possible. 1 month of hell is better than 6 months of hell.

So what I am trying to say is, why is it right to put animals out of their misery, whereas we try to keep humans in it for as long as possible?
Last edited by Triplet at Aug 25, 2008,
#3
anyone see animals do the funniest things yesterday when the whale was blowing bubble?
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#4
What a stupid whale.
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#5
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They should have used harpoons


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brutal
#7
Because nobody, aside from animal rights activists, marine biologists and whale hunters, gives a damn about whales.
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#8
I like what you said. But your one and only mistake was expecting kindness, compassion, and intellectual debate from the pit.

This will never happen.
Dorkus.
#9
Quote by Shortcut
I like what you said. But your one and only mistake was expecting kindness, compassion, and intellectual debate from the pit.

This will never happen.


Yeah, I forgot where I was for a minute there...
#10
Quote by Triplet
No hope of surviving, just postponing the inevitable death a little longer.

Look man, death is inevitable, whether you know the date or not.
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#11
I havent read your whole post but putting that baby whale down is bull****. They should just let that whale die naturally, it happens to all sorts of animals any time, if you find an abandoned baby ant you aren't gonna euthanize that animal either.
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#12
i don't see why they didn't just let it die on its own naturally, hell its nature
#13
Bitch stole my boat space.

EDIT:
Quote by Thecla
I havent read your whole post but putting that baby whale down is bull****. They should just let that whale die naturally, it happens to all sorts of animals any time, if you find an abandoned baby ant you aren't gonna euthanize that animal either.


True, you step on it.
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#14
It was stuck in a harbor. Does getting hit by a yacht constitute dying naturally? Either way its way for totes sad..
Dorkus.
#15
Quote by Shortcut
It was stuck in a harbor. Does getting hit by a yacht constitute dying naturally? Either way its way for totes sad..


Bit of a grey area... There's a difference in dying after being hit by a yacht, only thing is a man-made object caused the death. Two species path's cross, one ends up dying. However, I think that actively dragging the whale out and making the decision to kill it comes under mankind meddling with nature. Let Mother Nature run her course. It was here before us, it will be here after us.
#16
Quote by fortysix&2
Look man, death is inevitable, whether you know the date or not.


That is completely besides the point.

I agree with th TS, people should be allowed to just die in peace instead of suffering prolonged agony just because some drug can keep them alive a little longer (without curing them).
#17
I don't know, it's 1 in the morning here and I can't be arsed to read the article, but I know that Colin was euthanised here and it was the right thing to do. If an animal is in pain and is inevitably going to die soon anyway, the most caring and empathetic way to act is to put it to sleep and end its pain.

Btw, it's 'Colette', the whale was a girl. Tits on a whale I suppose.
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#18
Quote by fortysix&2
Look man, death is inevitable, whether you know the date or not.

This,
And honestly life isn't that great 1 month of work is better then a life time of work, should I kill myself?
I hate waking up at 6am going to work for 8hours and then using all that money to pay for schooling, so that once I'm done that I can go... ...work! for the rest of my life. I'm not comparing it to cancer, just the fact that I'd rather not have to do it/deal with it, but I do doesn't mean I'm gonna go kill myself.
Every animals natural instinct, is 1st) reproduction and then 2nd) survival for as long as possible at all costs. Its nature.
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#19
Humans are self aware and capable of meaningful relationships...and whales just aren't.

They wanted to keep your uncle around so he could have a bit more time with his family and so that they would have a bit more time with him. Maybe he could even have the chance to prepare them for the time to come. Comparing the euthanasia of animals to that of humans is really f-ing dumb.
#20
Quote by denizenz
Humans are self aware and capable of meaningful relationships...and whales just aren't.

They wanted to keep your uncle around so he could have a bit more time with his family and so that they would have a bit more time with him. Maybe he could even have the chance to prepare them for the time to come. Comparing the euthanasia of animals to that of humans is really f-ing dumb.


Well, not really. I find mankind's intelligence is equalled only by it's stupidity and arrogance, and with all due respect sir, comments like that only cement the sterotype. My uncle couldn't take a piss without someone helping him, it took him an hour to get up and go to the toilet a few days before he died. What quality of life is that?

Every month there are more and more claims of evidence that many animals actually display the same self awareness, social skills and empathy that humans do. Who knows if they actually know what is going on? Who told us we were the demi-gods of this planet, deciding who lives or not?
#21
Quote by Triplet
After witnessing my uncle, if I ever get a terminal form of cancer, I'd want my suffering (and those around me being forced to watch the steady decline in health, mobility and independance) to be ended as soon as possible. 1 month of hell is better than 6 months of hell.

So what I am trying to say is, why is it right to put animals out of their misery, whereas we try to keep humans in it for as long as possible?


Bold: I agree a hella amount there.

And to answer your qustion, humans think that we're always right, everything we do is correct because we do it.
#22
If I ever find an abandoned human baby I'm gonna put it to sleep as well
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#23
Quote by Triplet
Well, not really. I find mankind's intelligence is equalled only by it's stupidity and arrogance, and with all due respect sir, comments like that only cement the sterotype.

First, there's a difference between intellect and cognition. Second, what does arrogance have to do with anything, and why the hell shouldn't we be arrogant?

My uncle couldn't take a piss without someone helping him, it took him an hour to get up and go to the toilet a few days before he died. What quality of life is that?

It was his life, and you have fuck all business telling him what quality is acceptable or not.

Did he want to live? Since humans are capable and animals are not the ultimate choice should have been his and certainly not yours.

Every month there are more and more claims of evidence that many animals actually display the same self awareness, social skills and empathy that humans do. Who knows if they actually know what is going on? Who told us we were the demi-gods of this planet, deciding who lives or not?

That would be God, but that's another debate entirely. However, in the context of this story, that whale would have died either way...so you're fighting an uphill battle with that course of reasoning.
#24
Tits on a whale

:wat:
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#25
Quote by denizenz
First, there's a difference between intellect and cognition. Second, what does arrogance have to do with anything, and why the hell shouldn't we be arrogant?


It was his life, and you have fuck all business telling him what quality is acceptable or not.

Did he want to live? Since humans are capable and animals are not the ultimate choice should have been his and certainly not yours.


That would be God, but that's another debate entirely. However, in the context of this story, that whale would have died either way...so you're fighting an uphill battle with that course of reasoning.


The arrogance of Humans thinking the planet is ours... That everything on this planet shares the world with humans, and not that we share it with everything else. We all eat, sleep, breath and ****. Only difference is we're evolved enough to take our surroundings and create technology out of them.

As for my uncle, this isn't a debate on what I, or anyone else who knew him thought was right for him. Considering he could barely reply to you when you spoke to him, I'd say he was ready to give up. That's probably why he died when he did, despite Dr's gave him 3-6 months longer...

The initial post ended with the question of why in humans do we prolong death through illness but yet an animal in the same circumstance we deem it more humane to kill it ahead of the natural course... Not whether we should have killed the whale or left it alone...
#26
Because humans are capable of advanced thought and emotions through cognition which also grants us the ability to rationalize cause and effect relationships such as the consequences of our own actions. The end.

There's a reason the mother whale left its young...because animals aren't able to grasp abstracts like existence or morality. It obviously wasn't going to survive, so she ditched it.
#27
Didn't the article say the baby whale had shark bite wounds and was suffering breathing difficulties? It was about to die anyway and they tried to lead it out of the harbor but it didn't work. It's not like they found a baby whale and euthanized it because it didn't have a mother.
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#28
There's an example of the human arrogance in your earlier post denizenz, namely the fact that you said that God intended humans to rule the world. You don't know that, humans just think that they can rule the world because 2000 years ago somebody said that there is something out there that created us and said we can rule the world. You don't know if God exists as much as I know that he doesn't.

The arrogance in this is that we think that something created us to be smarter than animals, so that we can control them. Maybe it is, but he also gave us brains to figure out our own ethics and morals, not just the ones he (not directly, but also made up by humans) preaches. Why should we not use our brains in a logical way? If you see someone/something suffering, you want to help it. If the only way to help it is by letting it die, then so be it. What's so wrong about that? Ofcourse, there are zillions of cases every day of mother animals abandoning baby animals that we don't know about and the baby dies. This case is different however, we know that this animal doesn't have any hope for survival, he's wounded, hungry and he will die soon. Why should we wait for that moment? If he can die in a peaceful way and not in a suffering way why shouldn't we help him a bit? What's the use of useless suffering?
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#30
Quote by Thecla
I havent read your whole post but putting that baby whale down is bull****. They should just let that whale die naturally, it happens to all sorts of animals any time, if you find an abandoned baby ant you aren't gonna euthanize that animal either.



I think they made the right decision, it may be nature when it's out in the ocean, but when it's stuck in a harbour and they're given the opportunity to put it out of its misery then I don't see why they shouldn't. Also, if I saw an insect that was injured or whatever on the floor I would probably stand on it, so it died quickly...which is pretty much the same thing, not that I would compare an ant to a whale.

To TS..I also think it's really unfair that loads of people have to die in pain when animals are able to be put to sleep, I know people that had just given up by the time they died, and I know would much rather have had some kind of drug earlier so they didn't have to suffer in the way they did. Although if there was a way to euthanise people all over the world then people would take advantage of it and use it when it was uneccessary
#31
Quote by denizenz
^ Are you trying to argue with me or agree with my position? I think you should reread my posts...


I'm not really trying to argue with you, I just saw your reaction to a post and that got me thinking.
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#32
It would be impressive irony if a dog with an elderly owner decided to kill the owner in his/her sleep because it felt it was the right thing to do.

Just a thought!
#33
Quote by misty_b
Didn't the article say the baby whale had shark bite wounds and was suffering breathing difficulties? It was about to die anyway and they tried to lead it out of the harbor but it didn't work. It's not like they found a baby whale and euthanized it because it didn't have a mother.


Yeah it did. Put it this way, they handled it in the most considerate and responsible and everything done was for the best.
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#36
Quote by fortysix&2
Look man, death is inevitable, whether you know the date or not.

Wow. You're with it.


As for how I feel. It's obvious that the animal wasn't going to survive, so it was either let it die naturally, or kill it ourselves. There was nothing else we could do, as it was suffering from shark bites and other injuries.

I think the best possible decision was made. Not that I'm happy with the outcome, but what else can you do?
#37
They offered to Japan for their "research", and they turned it down. They must just rather kill the whales before they eat them.
#38
kill it with a harpoon gaffa taped to a rocket then fap on it's corpse simple
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