#1
Ok. I really (And I know I'm gonna get like 3 people cussing me out) don't like tremolo's. I don't use them, so all they do is get between me and having a nice easy to string bridge, BUT I'm looking at a couple guitars that I want, and the only thing standing between me getting one is one has a Kahler Tremolo, and the other has a Floyd Rose Tremolo. So, I have two questions for anyone who knows.

#1. Which is easier to re-string?
#2. Which is easier to wail on without going out of tune, but still giving a good whammy thrash?


All input is appreciated.
-Thanks
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#3
i've never restrung a floyd but my kahler is pretty super easy. just having a locking nut at the head helps with keeping in tune too. if i were you i would go for the kahler
#4
Kahler has much better quality, better stability, a smoother feel, and are easier to install, however they are much, much more expensive. Floyd Roses are cheaper, and, well, it shows.

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#5
Kahlers are easier to resting but go out of tune easier because they aren't double locked. I personally love the smooth feel of a Kahler.
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#7
#1. Which is easier to re-string?
Kahler, no cutting necessary.
#2. Which is easier to wail on without going out of tune, but still giving a good whammy thrash?
Floyd
#9
Ok, thank you very much. I think the Kahler's what I'll get then. 'Cause going out of tune wailing on it won't be a problem, I almost never use trem's, but they don't make the model in a fixed bridge, so I'll go for the Kahler.
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#10
Quote by Das_Skittles
Kahler has much better quality, better stability, a smoother feel, and are easier to install, however they are much, much more expensive. Floyd Roses are cheaper, and, well, it shows.


You're so completely wrong it's not even funny.
#11
Quote by CaparisonCore
Ok, thank you very much. I think the Kahler's what I'll get then. 'Cause going out of tune wailing on it won't be a problem, I almost never use trem's, but they don't make the model in a fixed bridge, so I'll go for the Kahler.


If you have an option for an OFR over the Kahler, get it.

Kahler's are much more of a pain to restring and maintain, even aside from OFR's being better at what they do.

Just ask any guitar tech, or watch that video, if you don't believe me.
#12
What's wrong with it Delanoir? I'd like to know your opinion then, lol. I don't wanna buy it if it sucks. I've never used a Kahler =/ But I own 3 original Floyd's and 2 Licensed.
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#13
Oh, okay. Thank you. I think I'll find a friend who has a Kahler to try it out then for a week or so. I have quite a few Floyd's, but no Kahler's. Well, this should be interesting, lol.
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#14
it goes out of tune with string bending, you MUST angle the end of the string for it to stay in tune well, and the string locks can break (or so I've heard)
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#15
Quote by CaparisonCore
What's wrong with it Delanoir? I'd like to know your opinion then, lol. I don't wanna buy it if it sucks. I've never used a Kahler =/ But I own 3 original Floyd's and 2 Licensed.


If it's a Kahler or nothing, then feel free to get the Kahler. I'm just telling you to take the OFR over the Kahler if you can.

From my own personal experiences and from what I've heard from other experienced players and even professional guitar techs, Kahlers are just way more work than OFR's. The youtube video that was linked earlier does a great job of explaining it, but mainly it just comes down to the fact that there's a lot more that goes into setting them up and making sure they work. Besides, even after you do all that work, OFR's still do a better job at staying in tune at all times, even if you're not even using the trem at all.

The Kahler only has one advantage over the OFR. And that's the ability to go into "fixed bridge" mode, where it essentially locks and acts like a fixed bridge. But at that point, why even have a trem at all? You're not even using it, and you still have to do all the work of changing the strings or tuning.

ANd this is just my opinion right here, but I think Kahlers are hideous.
#16
USA Kahlers are okay as far as build goes, but they're a terrible concept.

Quote by me from some other thread
The problem with Kahler is that it, essentially being a modernized single-locking Bigsby system, has the main disadvantage of the aforementioned dinosaur - huge contact patch of the strings and the cam, and the fact that it's, well, single locking.

They have a dreadful design in terms of friction points (three - string holder, cam, saddle roller), and it all backfires when you start not just stretching the strings but also bending them.


Also I recommend the second half of this thread for some Kahler exposition.
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#17
Two different beast. Some people prefer one to the other. I have a Kahler on one of my guitars and floyds on some as well.. I think I prefer the floyd much more.
#18
Quote by Delanoir
there's a lot more that goes into setting them up and making sure they work.


Actually no there isn't. You don't have to remove ball ends or lock/unlock the string blocks. It's just as easy to set up if not easier. When you switch string gauges or tunings, there is a screw you turn to compensate the cam, similar to turning the claw screws on a Floyd.


Quote by Delanoir
Besides, even after you do all that work, OFR's still do a better job at staying in tune at all times, even if you're not even using the trem at all.


You are forgetting the fact that with a Floyd, resting you hand on the saddles to palm mute can temporarily makes all notes go sharp. No such problem on a Kahler.


Quote by Delanoir

The Kahler only has one advantage over the OFR. And that's the ability to go into "fixed bridge" mode


Ever heard of a Tremol-no?
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#21
a steinberger transtrem 3 would win on both accounts. It can be completely restringed and tuned in well under 5 minutes, and keeps tune almost until you need to replace the strings themselves. It also has 5 tuning's calibrated into the unit, and switching between them takes around a second. The whammy range is a bit different than a kahler or floyd, prolly a wee bit lower, but its just more versitile. Only downside is that they are rare, around 500-1000 dollars, need double ball strings, and might need a bit of body routing.
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#22
Quote by CephalidHunter
a steinberger transtrem 3 would win on both accounts....
How good can it be... The thing is non-locking, needs special strings, and still has a saddle contact point at all times. Tuning transposition is a joke too, especially in a system which has a free ball end on each side of the string. It probably would win on the first count, but tuning stability? Not a chance.
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#23
The transtrem 3 does lock, it becomes a hardtail when engaged in an alternate turning. Since the strings have direct tension on them and are not wrapped around anything they don't slip as well which contributes to their tuning stability. Also the string adaptor allows single ball strings to be used, but calibrated strings would be recommended.
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#24
Quote by CephalidHunter
The transtrem 3 does lock, it becomes a hardtail when engaged in an alternate turning. Since the strings have direct tension on them and are not wrapped around anything they don't slip as well which contributes to their tuning stability. Also the string adaptor allows single ball strings to be used, but calibrated strings would be recommended.


The lock I meant was string lock.

Now, the following is painfully obvious, but... There's a good reason Floyd trems lock the string at the bridge - winding at the ball end slips and stretches, the ball end moves around during tension changes. Just dropping the ball end in a hook and leaving it there is a sacrifice of tuning stability for a perceived ease of operation.

Strings in a Floyd can't and don't slip on either end. Stings in a Kahler can and do slip at the bridge, while staying locked at the nut. Strings in a double ball end system can and do slip at both ends. That's why avid Kahler users solder their strings at the ball end to keep the winding from slipping, and that's why double ball end systems will never go anywhere in popularity - they're just too much bother to make bulletproof.

Tuning transposition is a joke, because normally whenever you change your tuning, you reintonate. Flicking a switch to increase the string tension without changing the string length borders on meaningless since it only does half the job, and bypasses the hard half (reintonation). I personally don't see any need for any tuning presets on a fixed bridge. Retuning a fixie without reintonating ain't exactly rocket science...
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#25
Quote by Delanoir

The Kahler only has one advantage over the OFR. And that's the ability to go into "fixed bridge" mode, where it essentially locks and acts like a fixed bridge. But at that point, why even have a trem at all? You're not even using it, and you still have to do all the work of changing the strings or tuning.


Because if you want to stop using it, you can. Why else lol.

I'd rather have a tremelo I can lock than not.

Fixed bridges and Kahlers hold tone and sustain better, as they aren't sitting on a blade like the FR.

Kahler is smoother, uglier, harder to string and holds tone better.

FR Loses tone, looks badass, easy to restring all though plenty of parts can go wrong.

It really depends on the user, who needs it for different uses. Personally I would use a Kahler, as I have never broken a string in my 2 years of guitar playing. And I do play a fair bit, it must be in my soft style of picking or something. And I'm a tone*****. But seriously, It's all up to the user, I haven't got a grudge against the floyd.
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