#1
I need help choosing between whether to buy a multi effects pedal and and a bunch of single effects pedals.

Sounds i might try to imitate:

-heavy metallica riffs in the first three albums
-dual harmonic 80's glam leads
-Iron Maiden Synthesized leads
-Metalcore rhythm, and lead tones(E.C.: atreyu, KSE, BFMV, A7X)
-Dragonforce leads(dont laugh, trying to prove to myself, and friends regarding the band)
-Judas Priest(electric eye, painkiller )

I heard the Boss Me 50, Boss GT-10, line 6 POD series and Digitech series are good.

My gear:

Fender HSS Mexi Strat
Vox AD50(planning to purchase)
Boss DS-1


Also, when you post, PLEASE make sure you have enough experience or research to answer this question. If you are a tube addict, please don't lecture me into getting a 5-watt tube. In all reality, its like comparing SDTV with HDTV, and you can still make a sound with both. I have really thought about it, and my first priority is getting the sound, and then enhancing it. Don't bother, or I'll ignore ALL of your posts. And don't attack other people.
#2
i think for your situation that a multi-effects unit would probably be best. you could get all the tones you wanted (more or less) and you won't have to totally break the bank. obviously, the tones won't be spot on, and they won't have nearly the same quality to them, but you can still get pretty close to emulating the sounds you hear.
If your budget is your greatest concern, multi-effects are the way to go.

ps. i like your little lecture at the end there, lol.
pps blahblahblah tubes are amazing
#4
Multi-effects is the way to go if you're looking to do covers.

I have a lot of experience with the Digitech GNX3 & GNX3000 and they are very flexiable tone-wise and with effects. They come out with an RP500 which is supposed to be even better. Check those out.

I've owned a Boss GT-8 and don't get me wrong, it has great effects you'd expect from Boss, but the amp/cab modeler sucked. I could get great clean and overdrive tones, but the crunch and power of the Digitech was not there, it sounded too digital and had no warmth, as where the GNX3000 was very life-like. On the GT-8 I loved that you could set the expression pedal to control almost anything and use it to turn other effects on and off by pressing the toe down besides just the wah (unlike the GNX3000) but I missed the Whammy that the Digitech, Boss' pitch bender sounded too synthesised and not in a good way. Maybe they addressed those issues with the GT-10, but I doubt it.

The GT-8 was also a bitch to get even volumes between different presets.
Last edited by Bertallica at Aug 26, 2008,
#5
Quote by Dethonator
I need help choosing between whether to buy a multi effects pedal and and a bunch of single effects pedals.

Sounds i might try to imitate:

-heavy metallica riffs in the first three albums
-dual harmonic 80's glam leads
-Iron Maiden Synthesized leads
-Metalcore rhythm, and lead tones(E.C.: atreyu, KSE, BFMV, A7X)
-Dragonforce leads(dont laugh, trying to prove to myself, and friends regarding the band)
-Judas Priest(electric eye, painkiller )

I heard the Boss Me 50, Boss GT-10, line 6 POD series and Digitech series are good.

My gear:

Fender HSS Mexi Strat
Vox AD50(planning to purchase)
Boss DS-1


Also, when you post, PLEASE make sure you have enough experience or research to answer this question. If you are a tube addict, please don't lecture me into getting a 5-watt tube. In all reality, its like comparing SDTV with HDTV, and you can still make a sound with both. I have really thought about it, and my first priority is getting the sound, and then enhancing it. Don't bother, or I'll ignore ALL of your posts. And don't attack other people.


off topic, but waht is dual harmonic lead and synthesised lead.?
#6
Why are you going to spend money on 1, a distortion pedal, and 2 a multi effects pedal when you are buying a modeling amp?
#7
There is sooo much fail in this thread

Modelling Amp plus multi-fx = I WANT TO CUT OFF MY EARS

Don't spend all that much money on a modelling amp or multi-fx pedals
None of the tones you listed other than maiden actually require some sort of pedal
they require ... A GOOD AMP! I'm not telling you to buy a 5 watt tube (that would be terrible for your situation)
You listen no use of modulation... only the amount of gain you need. A multi fx pedal will give you a bunch of stuff you dont need. Honestly I think it is better to get single boxes which do a few sounds awesome rather than a big box which does a lot of sounds mediocre

My Advice to you would be to invest in an amp with alot of gain on tap and find your own sound.

With what you have listed, looks to me you have a budget of around 600

B-52 AT-100
Randall RG50TC
Bugera 6262 or 333xl
Used Peavey 5150

Any of those amps will do alot better for you in your situation. Trust me, invest in a good amp and you won't regret it.
#8
You don't really need any effects outside of maybe a wah and overdrive...
#10
Quote by imgooley
Why are you going to spend money on 1, a distortion pedal, and 2 a multi effects pedal when you are buying a modeling amp?


My thoughts exactly.
Dean Icon PZ
Line 6 Variax 700
Dean V-Wing
Dean ML 79 SilverBurst
MXR M 108
H2O Chorus/Echo
Valve Junior (V3 Head/Cab and Combo)
VHT Special 6
Phonic 620 Power Pod PA
Wampler Super Plextortion
Line 6 Pod HD
#11
Quote by imgooley
Why are you going to spend money on 1, a distortion pedal, and 2 a multi effects pedal when you are buying a modeling amp?

+2
#12
Quote by Highwaytohell
There is sooo much fail in this thread

Modelling Amp plus multi-fx = I WANT TO CUT OFF MY EARS

Don't spend all that much money on a modelling amp or multi-fx pedals
None of the tones you listed other than maiden actually require some sort of pedal
they require ... A GOOD AMP! I'm not telling you to buy a 5 watt tube (that would be terrible for your situation)
You listen no use of modulation... only the amount of gain you need. A multi fx pedal will give you a bunch of stuff you dont need. Honestly I think it is better to get single boxes which do a few sounds awesome rather than a big box which does a lot of sounds mediocre

My Advice to you would be to invest in an amp with alot of gain on tap and find your own sound.

With what you have listed, looks to me you have a budget of around 600

B-52 AT-100
Randall RG50TC
Bugera 6262 or 333xl
Used Peavey 5150

Any of those amps will do alot better for you in your situation. Trust me, invest in a good amp and you won't regret it.


Listen to this guy, modeling amps DON'T TAKE PEDALS WELL. If you really want to get those sounds you're going to need a good amp like he said.
Quote by Vincent Vega
Haikus are awesome
but sometimes they don't make sense
Refrigerator



Quote by KissingShadows
People always tell me I solo like Zakk Wylde. Thats how I know that I suck.
#13
Quote by thsrayas
Listen to this guy, modeling amps DON'T TAKE PEDALS WELL. If you really want to get those sounds you're going to need a good amp like he said.

Now that's just a fallacious lie.


They do take pedals well, but the AD50 doesn't have an effects loop, so modulation effects might be a bad Idea.

My AD50 takes dirt pedals like a champ, and works fine with my wah.


The thing is, though, if he's going for teh br00tz only, he doesn't need a modeling amp. It's good for a person like me who likes to fiddadle with different things often.
#14
Quote by imgooley
Now that's just a fallacious lie.


They do take pedals well, but the AD50 doesn't have an effects loop, so modulation effects might be a bad Idea.

My AD50 takes dirt pedals like a champ, and works fine with my wah.


The thing is, though, if he's going for teh br00tz only, he doesn't need a modeling amp. It's good for a person like me who likes to fiddadle with different things often.


Well in my experience most modeling amps I've tried don't take pedals well at all.
Quote by Vincent Vega
Haikus are awesome
but sometimes they don't make sense
Refrigerator



Quote by KissingShadows
People always tell me I solo like Zakk Wylde. Thats how I know that I suck.
#15
Quote by thsrayas
Well in my experience most modeling amps I've tried don't take pedals well at all.

Well, in my experience, the modeling amp I own takes pedals well.
#16
Quote by imgooley
Well, in my experience, the modeling amp I own takes pedals well.


Well I'm glad. I wish mine did.
Quote by Vincent Vega
Haikus are awesome
but sometimes they don't make sense
Refrigerator



Quote by KissingShadows
People always tell me I solo like Zakk Wylde. Thats how I know that I suck.
#17
Get a good amp, it doesn't have to be tube, but that will help in what you are chasing.

Go with stomp boxes. You may think it will be cheaper to go multifx, but think about it. 4 pretty good stompboxes will cost $3-400. A multifx that is as controllable and has as good a sound will cost at the very least, as much, and up to 2x more.

Alotta people here are comparing turds and diamonds.
#18
If you are going to buy a MultiFX with amp modeling you would be better off with a keyboard amp or PA than a modeling amp like the AD50.

The GT-10, Pod, or Digitech multifx will all meet your needs for getting a broad spectrum of tones. The Digitech has the advantage of a rhythm machine, which is essential for practicing and nailing your tempo. I just won this auction on eBay....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120297706572

The 8 Track recorder in the GNX3 has most of the capability of a $300 Jamman plus it has a synchronized rhythm machine.
#19
whats a modeling and a tube amp? idk what different amps are called if someone can post a reply with info
#20
a modeling amp is an amp like the line 6 spider, or the vox ad50 which have effects built into them.
a tube amp is powered by tubes (or valves depending on what you call them). there's a sticky all about tube/other amps i believe, so go look for it. it's pretty in depth.
#21
Quote by inevitable08
whats a modeling and a tube amp? idk what different amps are called if someone can post a reply with info


Please Read the stickies.

But to sum it up... A Modeling amplifier simulates sounds of other amplifiers and effects and preamps and has a solid state power amp and preamp. When cranked to high, these will have a very distinct harsh sounding gain and tone.

Mind you I said they SIMULATED so they will not sound any where as good as the actual thing.

Tube amplifiers use tubes to amplify the guitar signal. Tubes were once used to power so many things (oldschool radios and stuff) but when solid state technology was invented, tubes were mostly replaced. But us guitarists are stubborn. You see, tube amps produce a wonderful sounding roar when overdriven, so most guitarists prefer the Tube saturation to Solid State.

The Vox AVT is a Hybrid amplifier, which incorperates a tube preamp and a solid state power amp. This really does nothing to the sound. Preamps really only tweak the sound alot less than you'd think. However, when a solid state preamp and a Tube power amp are involved, things change a bit, and the amp sounds much more organic, although few amps use this formula.

As you can tell, a Tube amp will be a tad more expensive, BUT most tube amplifiers can destroy any solid state/tube amps.

Please look into the amps I recomended previously in the thread.
#22
Quote by Highwaytohell

The Vox AVT is a Hybrid amplifier, which incorperates a tube preamp and a solid state power amp. This really does nothing to the sound. Preamps really only tweak the sound alot less than you'd think. However, when a solid state preamp and a Tube power amp are involved, things change a bit, and the amp sounds much more organic, although few amps use this formula.

Misleading statement is misleading.


First, it's the ADVT series, the AVT is the Marshall hybrid. The 12AX7 in the Valvetronix is used in the power section of the amplifier, kinda as a dummy power amp. It affects the sound and dynamics greatly. Compare the Valvetronix to the DA series, which is basically the exact same preamp, and you'll hear the difference. It also does not sound bad as it gets louder, like most SS amps.

Preamps have a ton of affect on tone. Switch the 12AX7's in your amp the 12AT7's and you'll hear immediately.

Organic is a word to describe the chemical composition of various compounds, not a word to describe sound.
#23
Quote by imgooley
Well, in my experience, the modeling amp I own takes pedals well.


I find that its quite a fallacy to say that all modelling amps don't take pedals well. However in my experience, most modelling amp really don't take to pedals very well. Some modelling amps manage to take pedals well, but even among these, you'd have to spend a lot of time tweaking the amp and pedal setting to get something reminiscent of the sound you're hearing in your head. Of course, when I say "take to" in this context, I am referring to bringing your final tone closest to whichever band's tone you are seeking.

From my pains with running a pedal in front of a modelling amp or in its effects loop, I find its so much easier to take the pedal away and dial the sound straight into the amp itself.

Modelling amps digitally process a guitar signal to eventually sound like whichever amp you have dialed into the settings. Throw a pedal in front of the preamp and the the signal that now reaches the preamp stage is processed. The preamp then process that signal to mimic an amp model. There is no way your guitar signal will even vaguely sound like any of the bands you want.

Throw your pedal in the effects chain, and the pedal further process that signal, layering another level of EQ on top of the EQ that your preamp just put the signal through.

This is assuming that your pedals are analogue.

Modelling amps don't have "true and unique" tonal characteristic of their own. As mentioned earlier they simulate other amps, so even if you selected an amp model, even the cleanest, it already has tonal and EQ characteristic dialed into the model, before your even touch your EQ knob. The EQ knob merely further adjusts the EQ settings dialed into the different models.

Imagine what your tone will sound like if you threw in a multi-effects into either the chain or before the preamp. It will result in 2 layers of digital modeling on top of your tone. From my experience of

Very rarely will you be able to bring your tone close to whichever band you are trying to emulate. It will be easier if you got a PA or a tube or SS amp and tried to dial in the sound of the amp.

That said, if you are seeking a unique tone, I'm sure that a modelling amp and a good multieffects could be quite instrumental towards that tone. Just don't bet too much on it being able to throw out a Metallica tone on one patch, then a Zep tone on a second patch, then a Atreyu tone on another patch, ad infinitum. Even if you dialed in various amp models on your modelling amp.

Either get a good modelling amp which can bring you close to the various tone you are seeking, or try your luck on a good multieffects through a decent PA setup or even through a good SS amp.

Can't say much about how the different tube amps will handle multieffects, because I've rarely had experience with tube amps. Among the people I know, those who can afford kick ass tube stacks don't use multieffects and those who use multieffects, typically don't use tube amps.

Now that my rant is over, try to avoid the Boss GT units, they sound really really digitised. You really have to spend a lot of get a nice warm tone. Just my 2cents.

If anyone disagrees, feel free to state your opinions and views, this is merely my experience with modelling amps and multieffects or pedals.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
Last edited by ragingkitty at Aug 27, 2008,
#24
Quote by ragingkitty
I find that its quite a fallacy to say that all modelling amps don't take pedals well. However in my experience, most modelling amp really don't take to pedals very well. Some modelling amps manage to take pedals well, but even among these, you'd have to spend a lot of time tweaking the amp and pedal setting to get something reminiscent of the sound you're hearing in your head. Of course, when I say "take to" in this context, I am referring to bringing your final tone closest to whichever band's tone you are seeking.

From my pains with running a pedal in front of a modelling amp or in its effects loop, I find its so much easier to take the pedal away and dial the sound straight into the amp itself.

Modelling amps digitally process a guitar signal to eventually sound like whichever amp you have dialed into the settings. Throw a pedal in front of the preamp and the the signal that now reaches the preamp stage is processed. The preamp then process that signal to mimic an amp model. There is no way your guitar signal will even vaguely sound like any of the bands you want.

Throw your pedal in the effects chain, and the pedal further process that signal, layering another level of EQ on top of the EQ that your preamp just put the signal through.

This is assuming that your pedals are analogue.

Modelling amps don't have "true and unique" tonal characteristic of their own. As mentioned earlier they simulate other amps, so even if you selected an amp model, even the cleanest, it already has tonal and EQ characteristic dialed into the model, before your even touch your EQ knob. The EQ knob merely further adjusts the EQ settings dialed into the different models.

Imagine what your tone will sound like if you threw in a multi-effects into either the chain or before the preamp. It will result in 2 layers of digital modeling on top of your tone. From my experience of

Very rarely will you be able to bring your tone close to whichever band you are trying to emulate. It will be easier if you got a PA or a tube or SS amp and tried to dial in the sound of the amp.

That said, if you are seeking a unique tone, I'm sure that a modelling amp and a good multieffects could be quite instrumental towards that tone. Just don't bet too much on it being able to throw out a Metallica tone on one patch, then a Zep tone on a second patch, then a Atreyu tone on another patch, ad infinitum. Even if you dialed in various amp models on your modelling amp.

Either get a good modelling amp which can bring you close to the various tone you are seeking, or try your luck on a good multieffects through a decent PA setup or even through a good SS amp.

Can't say much about how the different tube amps will handle multieffects, because I've rarely had experience with tube amps. Among the people I know, those who can afford kick ass tube stacks don't use multieffects and those who use multieffects, typically don't use tube amps.

Now that my rant is over, try to avoid the Boss GT units, they sound really really digitised. You really have to spend a lot of get a nice warm tone. Just my 2cents.

If anyone disagrees, feel free to state your opinions and views, this is merely my experience with modelling amps and multieffects or pedals.

Very good post.

The reason I said pedals work well with my AD50 is because I use 2 dirts and a wah, all analogue, and I don't try to emulate any band's sound, even if I'm playing their song.

I completely agree with the multi effects comment, which is why I asked why TS was considering a multieffects of that nature when purchasing a modeler. Also, it's worth note that the modeling is in the preamp only. You can run a modeling preamp through a tube power amp, just like you can run a multieffects through a tube power amp. A lot of people run PODs as their pre and like a Mesa 50/50 for their power.
#25
Quote by imgooley
You can run a modeling preamp through a tube power amp, just like you can run a multieffects through a tube power amp. A lot of people run PODs as their pre and like a Mesa 50/50 for their power.


Thanks for the comment, I just wanted to share my painful experience.

OK, finally someone who knows this set up structure.

Does that mean I plug my guitar into the input of the multieffects and then run the output of the multieffects through into the effects return of the modelling amp, thereby bypassing the preamp stage of the digital modeller?

Someone on UG runs a setup that he says runs a Pod XT live (what I don't have) into the power stage of his SpiderValve 112 (which is what I have), and he says the sound is a world away from just using the Spider Valve. Would what you just described be similar to that?
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#26
Quote by ragingkitty
Thanks for the comment, I just wanted to share my painful experience.

OK, finally someone who knows this set up structure.

Does that mean I plug my guitar into the input of the multieffects and then run the output of the multieffects through into the effects return of the modelling amp, thereby bypassing the preamp stage of the digital modeller?

Someone on UG runs a setup that he says runs a Pod XT live (what I don't have) into the power stage of his SpiderValve 112 (which is what I have), and he says the sound is a world away from just using the Spider Valve. Would what you just described be similar to that?

Does the Spider Valve have an effects loop?

The POD is a far superior preamp than the Spider preamp. In order to use the modeler in an amp that is a combo like that, you would need to plug it into the loop.

A lot of people run modelers in rack setups, which is what I was referring to.
#27
Quote by imgooley
Does the Spider Valve have an effects loop?

The POD is a far superior preamp than the Spider preamp. In order to use the modeler in an amp that is a combo like that, you would need to plug it into the loop.

A lot of people run modelers in rack setups, which is what I was referring to.


Yes it has a "Preamp Out" and "Poweramp In". Unless I mistakenly have assumed that to be the effects loop, and it isn't.

If so and I do use such a setup, does that effectively render the preamp stage of my SpiderValve redundent?
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#28
If you have a MFX with pre-amp sims, plugging that into the FX return or power amp in jack on a amp will bypass the amps built in pre-amp, and just use the power amp.

I use a GT-8 and hook it up to my amp's FX return. I can get a ton of different sounds, and still run them thru tubes.

MFX's will never sound 100% like the real thing, but they get close if you take the time to learn how to set them up.
#29
Quote by ragingkitty
Yes it has a "Preamp Out" and "Poweramp In". Unless I mistakenly have assumed that to be the effects loop, and it isn't.

If so and I do use such a setup, does that effectively render the preamp stage of my SpiderValve redundent?

Yes, but the preamp is the same preamp in Spider III amps, I believe, so that's not exactly a bad thing.
#30
Quote by imgooley
Yes, but the preamp is the same preamp in Spider III amps, I believe, so that's not exactly a bad thing.


yeah its 2.0, but I've been hearing that with the Pod XT, it could be better.

Thanks for all the help.

Thanks as well shmuck71. I'm thinking of doing the same thing with the Pod XT, my GT3 sounds too processed that its unnatural, even with the tubes.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#31
Quote by Highwaytohell
Please Read the stickies.

As you can tell, a Tube amp will be a tad more expensive, BUT most tube amplifiers can destroy any solid state/tube amps.

Please look into the amps I recomended previously in the thread.


Dude, i'm a high school student with strict parents. I don't have the liberty of living by myself. Even if i saved the money, my parents restricted my account. They don't know **** about guitar, so, thanks anyways.

You SEEM to have a good idea on this topic. Answer me these questions:

a) do you own anything that you recommended?
b) can you achieve the sounds i listed, with your gear?
c) can you give me a good list of what to buy with a $600 limit?

Seriously, i dont see a good amp in the next 5 or so years. Yes, even when i get into college, it must be near where i live. You should be thankful, if you live by yourself.

Thanks, i consider you to be the better advisor.