#1
I like to play a lot of old psychedelic music . . . country joe and the fish, big brother and holding company, QMS what is a good scale that i can get that sound with. Some of the heavy blues stuff is just minor scale im pretty sure but what is one that captures that sound well? thanks
#2
+1

I'd like to know some groovy happenin' scales to blow some minds at band practice

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#3
Mixolydian mode can work, Lydian mode Major scale with a raised fourth. In certain apects, if you go so far as prog music, you can incorporate minor and harmonic minor. I'd learn all the diatonic modes, you need them. And then scale into exotic phrasings. Try some texture guitar too, especially for phycedellic music, It's trying to create a color with your instrument.
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#4
the scales don't matter. Experiment with dynamics, especially in long elaborate solo sections. Most of it is in a mode of the major scale or melodic minor. For example, The End by the Doors is in D minor, White Rabbit is in F# Phrygian.
#5
Are you kidding? What do you think the major scale was and is before it was the major?

Ionian mode= Major scale

Aeolian mode= Natural minor scale

Melodic minor is a form of Aeolian, F# Phyrigian is a mode. And those scales don't matter?
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#7
Most any scale can create most any mood or feeling if used correctly. This is less true for the pentatonic scales because of the inherent limitations in having only 5 notes and no strong leading tones of any kind, but as the 6 and especially the 7 or 8 note scales go it's all in the timbre, dynamics, note selection, and phrasing. The old stuff you mentioned is almost all blues scales played in a psychedelic context, for example. As mentioned, the raised fourth of the Lydian mode is another great tool for crafting psychedelic or dream-like textures. Study what you like and see what they do, then take that knowledge and mix in what you already know to create your own unique music.
#8
Phyrigian dominant= fourth mode of harmonic minor

I Love that scale, it's my favorite!
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#9
Nightfrye! Great man, thats great advice. I'm just trying what you are trying to do too, the modes really help set a mood. Pentatonics, are really overused and dull considering once you've heard slash, you've heard all the pentatonics. I love the dude, hes great, just repetitive. But man those modes can be amazing, just make sure you change your positions, build dexterity and don't be afraid to explore and improvise!
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#10
Quote by korn klown 14
Phyrigian dominant= fourth mode of harmonic minor

I Love that scale, it's my favorite!

Phrygian dominant is the fifth mode of harmonic minor.
#11
really any scale can be made to be psychedelic. i've noticed psychedelic stuff is more about the tone of the guitar and the FX, a little flange, delay, phaser, some chorus or tremolo, thats what makes it sound really spacey.
#12
awesomeness. thanks.
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#14
My recommendation would be to take lots of shrooms, and then write a song, it doesnt have to make sense.... and then solo the **** out of the blues, hitting some notes that you know are wrong :P

If you just stick to playing minor pent and what not, youre never going to get any where. Some of the above suggestions are good ideas, but id say venture out and be willing to hit a few wrong notes, youll eventually find a few weird notes that work.

I like experimental/psyc stuff. http://www.myspace.com/soundsofmeta check out some of my bands stuff if youd like.


Also listen to alot of miles davis' smack music lol. His later stuff is modal jazz which means it stays in one key, so i suggest finding a tune that you can figure out what key hes in, and then pickin out his note choices.


Sorry if i dont make much sense lol
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#15
there's no such thing as wrong notes, only notes that are better than others depending on context.
#16
i disagree highly with bbell. theres no reason to take drugs to make something psychedelic. and on top of that"wrong note choice" is subjective but i wouldn't say going out of key is going to make something sound psychedelic
#17
Thanks for all the advice . . .
but what are: dynamics, guitar textures, phrasing
#19
Quote by Bmg6690
Thanks for all the advice . . .
but what are: dynamics, guitar textures, phrasing

Dynamics would be the volumes at which you're playing along with the intensity and execution of the notes; lots of contrasting dynamics can work nicely.

Textures usually refers to the layers of sound and tones created by the instruments, and phrasing is how you construct your musical phrases (ideas).

If you're looking for a dreamy-sounding scale, though, my personal recommendation would be wholetone.
Last edited by :-D at Aug 27, 2008,
#20
Quote by Bmg6690
Thanks for all the advice . . .
but what are: dynamics, guitar textures, phrasing


Dynamics-The way you execute a piece. It mostly refers to intensity,, but also refers to other stylish things, like the velocity of the sound (staccatos, or maybe ritenutos, etc), or even grace notes(but I am not sure about this).

Guitar texture-I assume it means the tone of the guitar, which ultimately is the timbre of the sound and can be varied (again I am not sure about this)

Phrasing-The way you construct musical phrases. Musical phrases are like sections of music that contain themselves rhytmically and harmonically in a certain structure, or sorts. I can't explain it very well though....
Take for instance a sentence in common language, it is part of the whole "paragraph" or "piece", but still contains a message, is structured, is precedeed by other sentences and proceded by sentences, etc. Although a musical phrase can be considered as a "sentence", or maybe even shorter or longer, depending on its structure, rhythm, etc...
In phrasing, you basicly have to worry about rhythm, since that is what kind of defines the phrases, besides pitches and note choice. Picture it as a sentence again:the way that you write that sentence defines it, it is not the same to write "I go to the mall" than to write "Mall go to I the", etc...
Well, then you have note choice, and other stuff which is involved in phrasing since it involves structure too...

Hope that's right...
Last edited by gonzaw at Aug 27, 2008,
#21
most good songs have punctual phrases, psychedellic ones often don't. But that depends on how you want to play, old pink floyd songs would go on for 10 minutes and have no phrasing, it would just be random sounds sometimes. Phrases are for the most part from 3 to 6 bars with the vast majority being 4 bars, bridges and connecting patterns are often shorter(e.g 2 bars). A musical phrase is like a sentence in spoken english, it begins and ends an idea punctually.

Listen to this for example, very psychedellic, still has great phrasing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLJ_QVfT_wM

the majority of the phrases last 4 bars, you can really notice each phrase when they start singing. Count out each bar and notice how at the ending of every 4th bar their singing and instruments alike both end a complete musical idea and begins anew, this is good phrasing, there is a lot of bad phrasing out there and once you know what it is you can really tell who knows what they are doing, and who doesn't.
Last edited by farcry at Aug 27, 2008,
#22
Quote by korn klown 14
Are you kidding? What do you think the major scale was and is before it was the major?

Ionian mode= Major scale

Aeolian mode= Natural minor scale

Melodic minor is a form of Aeolian, F# Phyrigian is a mode. And those scales don't matter?

What I meant when I said that the scales don't matter(an awfully phrased sentence) was that psychedelic music isn't about the scales. Using a different scale isn't going to make it any more or less psychedelic. What I was trying to get across was that the dynamics and long solo sections were far more important to the psychedelic sound than any particular scale.
#23
Also listen to alot of miles davis' smack music lol. His later stuff is modal jazz which means it stays in one key, so i suggest finding a tune that you can figure out what key hes in, and then pickin out his note choices.



That is not modal jazz. Speak at length of what you know and make sure you don't speak at all when you don't know.
#24
I find to trip out, that delay flange and holding one note for longer than neil young would is all that is required. I tell you this, fast picking one note and then bending it as far as possible, is a wierd noise, and is easy and sounds great.
pysch stuff is not usually that complex, its just imagination, pedals, and feeling.
some good stoner bands though use heavy sounds, but I prefer that early syd style myself


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#25
Quote by z4twenny
really any scale can be made to be psychedelic. i've noticed psychedelic stuff is more about the tone of the guitar and the FX, a little flange, delay, phaser, some chorus or tremolo, thats what makes it sound really spacey.

Yea scales are not your problem its the use of them. Yet another what scales thread. Want to hear simple pentatonics used to make an awsome psycadelic flowing song? Listen to Robin Trowers bridge of sighs. So simple yet so good. Practice phrasing and feeling your music. Looking up scales isnt going to help much if you cant even use the ones you already know.
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#26
Quote by TheFly_1990
+1

I'd like to know some groovy happenin' scales to blow some minds at band practice


It really isn't all about scales. There is rhythm, phrasing, effects, dynamics... (etc, etc) too.

Great chunk of psychedelic music uses a lots of effects and repetition.
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#27
Quote by confusius
That is not modal jazz. Speak at length of what you know and make sure you don't speak at all when you don't know.



I didnt even name a tune...? lol? (although i didn't mean all of his latter work is modal... but a lot of it is due to the fact he couldn't play like he was able to in the 50s/60s)

"The word psychedelic is an English term coined from the Greek words for "soul," ψυχή (psyche), and "manifest," δήλος (delos). A psychedelic experience is characterized by the perception of aspects of one's mind previously unknown, or by the creative exuberance of the mind liberated from its ostensibly ordinary fetters. Psychedelic states are an array of experiences elicited by sensory deprivation as well as by psychedelic substances. Such experiences include hallucinations, changes of perception, synesthesia, altered states of awareness, mystical states, and occasionally states resembling psychosis."

Now im going to go out on a limb... if you're trying to play a psychedelic song, and youve never had an experience yourself... then you have no idea what the **** you are doing. Sure you can come up with some pretty weird **** without drug influence, but thats not psychedelic. Playing psychedelic music is mainly about creativity, stop thinking about ****ing scales and start using your ear.
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#28
^ not entirely, i was listening to pink floyd at an early age (like 8 or 9, it was the only good cd my dad had) and although i didn't know it was psychedelic per se, what i did know was that the music elicited a surreal dreamy nature and at the time i related it to a dissassociative sense that i would later come to realize and acknowledge as psychdelic. In other words just because you've never tripped doesn't mean you can't write something trippy.
#29
yea actually i totally agree with you. I was just trying to be an asshole and prove i was right.

"how can you play the blues... if youve never had the blues?"

:P
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#30
Quote by Justice_Fish
Pandiatonics sound nice when used properly

Phrygian Dominant Scale is sweet

whats the formula for pandiatonics
(as in 1 b2 3 kinda thing)
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#31
People...people...you need a SITAR to be truly psychedelic.

But in the words of Psychedelia's most pervasive icon, Jerry Garcia:"For me all music is psychedelic. Country and western music is psychedelic. The blues is psychedelic. Everything is psychedelic. All music."

If you ever have had a psychedelic experience while listening to music you should know what he's talking about.

If you are looking for something more practical then it has already been said. The scales themselves don't dictate a song's psychedelic status, but rather how you use them. The use of "wrong" notes can create any type of song from grunge to free jazz to Celine Dion-style pop to intense Phish jams.
Last edited by Four-Sticks at Aug 29, 2008,
#32
I didnt even name a tune...? lol? (although i didn't mean all of his latter work is modal... but a lot of it is due to the fact he couldn't play like he was able to in the 50s/60s)



I wasn't disputing the fact that Miles Davis has written modal music, that would be futile. In a modal jazz song, improvisations are based on individual scales or modes rather than on the overall key of a piece. The result is a song that contains fewer chord changes and allows more time and freedom for melodic improvisation. In essence, it's about a return to melody.


One of Miles Davis' most well known explorations of modal jazz was the album Kind of Blue, more specifically "So What", from 1959.