Poll: Do moral absolutes exist?
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View poll results: Do moral absolutes exist?
Yes, and we can know what they are
30 20%
No, each person has their own right and wrong
89 59%
Yes, but no one knows for sure
22 15%
Other (Please explain)
9 6%
Voters: 150.
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#1
I'm bored, so I figured I would start a debate here. What is your view on moral absolutes? Do they exist? Should they exist? If so, can we know what they are, or is it a personal choice?
#5
Quote by creeping.death!
They don't exist.


+1
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#7
Yes, and it just takes common sense and a mind free of distractions to work them out.
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#9
Since morals are subjective, their absolutes must be subjective. By that logic, nothing that is subjective can be absolute. There are no moral absolutes.
#10
There are moral absolutes. We, as society, tend to think killing is wrong. We think that people who kill others are wrong. Therefore, killing is absolutely wrong, based on morals.

Other moral absolutes can be found in the Bible, now in a handy pocket-sized edition.
Quote by DistantScreams
Awwwww.... CaptainBec that was messed up


Why? Because I rap about reality? Like me and my grandma having a cup of tea?
There ain't no party like my nanna's tea party - heey - ho!
#11
Quote by CaptainBec
There are moral absolutes. We, as society, tend to think killing is wrong. We think that people who kill others are wrong. Therefore, killing is absolutely wrong, based on morals.

...

Bold is a problem. What may seem moral for you may not be moral for everyone. And it is far from absolutely wrong, why the hell does your country have an army for pity's sake?
#12
Quote by CaptainBec
There are moral absolutes. We, as society, tend to think killing is wrong. We think that people who kill others are wrong. Therefore, killing is absolutely wrong, based on morals.

Except in war, executions, religious sacrifice, cannibalism ...
#13
Quote by CaptainBec
There are moral absolutes. We, as society, tend to think killing is wrong. We think that people who kill others are wrong. Therefore, killing is absolutely wrong, based on morals.

Other moral absolutes can be found in the Bible, now in a handy pocket-sized edition.

not everyone believes that killing is wrong, and not everyone agrees with the morals presented in the Bible.
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#14
Christians would say, yes they exist.

I am yet undecided. As of this point I think that subjective ethics are good enough.
#16
Quote by CaptainBec
Therefore, killing is absolutely wrong, based on morals.

war, abortion, execution, self defence etc.

there are many situations in which many people believe killing to be acceptable. so how can it be absolutely wrong?
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#17
Quote by skeptopotamus
Since morals are subjective, their absolutes must be subjective. By that logic, nothing that is subjective can be absolute. There are no moral absolutes.

I agree, but many people disagree with your statement that morals are subjective.
#18
Just because one does not believe in a certain moral does not mean that there is no absolute moral. If someone said there was no gravity it does not mean that gravity does not exist. It's possible that some people are just turned off from the world moral like a little kid would be turned off of Old Navy because of the word old, but the truth is that morals exist. It takes a clear mind and a concentrated person to understand even the most basic morals.
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#19
Well im off to bed after this but wait... does the TS take IB and English? In "The Outsider" By Camus this tends to be a recurring theme, and a Philosophy too...

In my opinion there is a line, but i think it depends on whether you can find it or not.

Another thing is are these moral absolutes set by convention, humanity, or do we set them for ourselves?

And, of course, is there even such a thing as a moral absolute?

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#21
Ok, Ok, there are some times when killing isn't absolutely wrong. I'm tired ok? Didn't sleep well last night.

No, not everyone takes the Bible's absolutes to be absolutely true. But ignoring the truth doesn't stop it being the truth.

Holocaust may be a better example. Only idiots are going to tell me that didn't happen.
Quote by DistantScreams
Awwwww.... CaptainBec that was messed up


Why? Because I rap about reality? Like me and my grandma having a cup of tea?
There ain't no party like my nanna's tea party - heey - ho!
#22
Quote by aliceinnirvana
Just because one does not believe in a certain moral does not mean that there is no absolute moral. If someone said there was no gravity it does not mean that gravity does not exist. It's possible that some people are just turned off from the world moral like a little kid would be turned off of Old Navy because of the word old, but the truth is that morals exist. It takes a clear mind and a concentrated person to understand even the most basic morals.

but seeing as though morals are a human creation and only exist in and apply to humans, it's a flawed analogy.

Gravity exists outside of humans, it applies to humans but also applies to everything else.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#23
Quote by CaptainBec
Ok, Ok, there are some times when killing isn't absolutely wrong. I'm tired ok? Didn't sleep well last night.

No, not everyone takes the Bible's absolutes to be absolutely true. But ignoring the truth doesn't stop it being the truth.

Holocaust may be a better example. Only idiots are going to tell me that didn't happen.

I have anxiety problems which bring on sleeping problems. However, it is not an excuse for stupidity

Also, I don't ignore 'the truth', I just don't believe in it. And I have no idea what you're trying to ask, what your comeback is and why the holocaust is relevant with this post.
#24
Quote by blue_strat
... euthanasia, meat, weedkillers, abortions ...



Weedkillers?!

And I'm anti-abortion by the way. I think the reason a lot of people don't have a problem with abortion is because they don't understand that it is murder. They get told 'it's just a ball of cells' or 'it's in the frog evolutionary stage'. And other lies like that.
Quote by DistantScreams
Awwwww.... CaptainBec that was messed up


Why? Because I rap about reality? Like me and my grandma having a cup of tea?
There ain't no party like my nanna's tea party - heey - ho!
#25
Quote by aliceinnirvana
Just because one does not believe in a certain moral does not mean that there is no absolute moral. If someone said there was no gravity it does not mean that gravity does not exist. It's possible that some people are just turned off from the world moral like a little kid would be turned off of Old Navy because of the word old, but the truth is that morals exist. It takes a clear mind and a concentrated person to understand even the most basic morals.


So would you care to explain your argument, rather than just saying that morals exist and that it takes a clear mind to understand them? By your logic, just because someone says that they do exist, it does not mean that they do.
#26
Quote by CaptainBec
And I'm anti-abortion by the way. I think the reason a lot of people don't have a problem with abortion is because they don't understand that it is murder. They get told 'it's just a ball of cells' or 'it's in the frog evolutionary stage'. And other lies like that.
Are you retarded or 12?
#27
Quote by CaptainBec
Weedkillers?!

And I'm anti-abortion by the way. I think the reason a lot of people don't have a problem with abortion is because they don't understand that it is murder. They get told 'it's just a ball of cells' or 'it's in the frog evolutionary stage'. And other lies like that.

This isn't a debate on abortion. Please keep that out of this topic.

I don't get why pro-lifers are always so touchy about that issue..
#28
Quote by Craigo
I have anxiety problems which bring on sleeping problems. However, it is not an excuse for stupidity

Also, I don't ignore 'the truth', I just don't believe in it. And I have no idea what you're trying to ask, what your comeback is and why the holocaust is relevant with this post.


Ok, so you don't believe in it. Does not believing in the holocaust mean it didn't happen? Does not believing in Jesus mean he wasn't on Earth? That was my point.

Gosh, it doesn't have to be about 'comebacks'.
Quote by DistantScreams
Awwwww.... CaptainBec that was messed up


Why? Because I rap about reality? Like me and my grandma having a cup of tea?
There ain't no party like my nanna's tea party - heey - ho!
#29
Quote by CaptainBec
Weedkillers?!

And I'm anti-abortion by the way. I think the reason a lot of people don't have a problem with abortion is because they don't understand that it is murder. They get told 'it's just a ball of cells' or 'it's in the frog evolutionary stage'. And other lies like that.

1. Why is this relevant?
2. You coin it wrong. We don't.
#30
Quote by smb
Are you retarded or 12?


Both, blatently.
Quote by DistantScreams
Awwwww.... CaptainBec that was messed up


Why? Because I rap about reality? Like me and my grandma having a cup of tea?
There ain't no party like my nanna's tea party - heey - ho!
#31
Quote by CaptainBec
Ok, so you don't believe in it. Does not believing in the holocaust mean it didn't happen? Does not believing in Jesus mean he wasn't on Earth? That was my point.

Gosh, it doesn't have to be about 'comebacks'.

We have undeniable evidence that the holocaust existed. we have historical writings from different historians that jesus existed. The only evidence we have that the absolutes the bible presents are true is the fact that it says they are.
#32
Quote by Lemoninfluence
but seeing as though morals are a human creation and only exist in and apply to humans, it's a flawed analogy.

Gravity exists outside of humans, it applies to humans but also applies to everything else.
I disagree with you there.

Morals exist in any social species.
#33
Quote by CaptainBec
Ok, so you don't believe in it. Does not believing in the holocaust mean it didn't happen? Does not believing in Jesus mean he wasn't on Earth? That was my point.

Gosh, it doesn't have to be about 'comebacks'.

Good debates are dependent on criticising the previous person's stand point. Comebacks are important.

I believe in the holocaust because I've seen evidence with my own eyes it happened and have enough reason to believe it. However, I have no reason to believe the Bible, and the more I learn about science, the less I seem to believe in it.

It's a silly analogy. Plus, this isn't about your religion.
#34
Quote by Spamwise
We have undeniable evidence that the holocaust existed. we have historical writings from different historians that jesus existed. The only evidence we have that the absolutes the bible presents are true is the fact that it says they are.


Ok, obviously someone missed the news that there were some crazy people telling everyone the holocaust was a lie a little while ago. Never mind.

Well, there is secular evidence for Jesus, many of the rulers of the time mentioned him and the crowds that were following. There's also writings that were left out of the Bible because they were not considered to be inspired by God.

This has got way off track. I apologise to TS, he must be kind of annoyed.

So, back to moral absolutes. I guess we've established I believe in them, and Spamwise doesn't.
Quote by DistantScreams
Awwwww.... CaptainBec that was messed up


Why? Because I rap about reality? Like me and my grandma having a cup of tea?
There ain't no party like my nanna's tea party - heey - ho!
#35
Quote by freedoms_stain
I disagree with you there.

Morals exist in any social species.

ok, fair enough.

but you wouldn't hold animals to our morals (even if there were such things as human morals). which only serves to prove my point further.
Quote by CaptainBec
Ok, obviously someone missed the news that there were some crazy people telling everyone the holocaust was a lie a little while ago. Never mind.

Well, there is secular evidence for Jesus, many of the rulers of the time mentioned him and the crowds that were following. There's also writings that were left out of the Bible because they were not considered to be inspired by God.

This has got way off track. I apologise to TS, he must be kind of annoyed.

So, back to moral absolutes. I guess we've established I believe in them, and Spamwise doesn't.

so you have evidence that jesus existed? does that mean he's the son of god? does that mean there are absolute morals?
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#37
Quote by Craigo
1. Why is this relevant?
2. You coin it wrong. We don't.


1. It's not. I was bored.

2. Darn, why do I forget so many people's names tonight? There was this female doctor in the US a little while ago who told all her patients getting abortions that they were only killing a fish. Pretty sure she isn't practicing anymore! In fairness, I'm sure most doctors don't tell people that. I apologise for my incorrect and unnecessary generalisation.

3. I'm liking the bullet points. Good organisation.
Quote by DistantScreams
Awwwww.... CaptainBec that was messed up


Why? Because I rap about reality? Like me and my grandma having a cup of tea?
There ain't no party like my nanna's tea party - heey - ho!
#38
Quote by Spamwise
I'm bored, so I figured I would start a debate here. What is your view on moral absolutes? Do they exist? Should they exist? If so, can we know what they are, or is it a personal choice?


Morals? In The Pit? Good one!
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#39
I don't believe in absolutes. Only One attracted by the Dark Side think in absolutes.
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#40
Quote by JeanMi36
I don't believe in absolutes. Only One attracted by the Dark Side think in absolutes.



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