#1
Every so often I hear a band on UG with GREAT sound quality, and beautiful mixing.

So I come with a question UGers, taking into mind I play metal, what is a great way to get BIG guitar sound? Not "bassy", not boomy, but DEEP, BIG.
example:
BlindedColony

The only thing I know is use multiple mics to imitate a large orchestral effect, and get 2 perfect takes of the same rhythm, and pan them hard left and right.
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall 1960A vintage
Rg3exfm1 w/ EMG 85/81
Big Baby Taylor Acoustic
Ibanez TS808
#3
If you use a direct box and a reamp (like this high-end package) you could replicate a guitarist's (or bassist's) performance, so you'd only need one perfect take.

As for sounds you want...perhaps by reading about the techniques pros used for classic and contemporary albums that you like could help.

It may also involve using kick ass microphones like the U47 (Peluso's 2247 is supposed to be an affordable and exact replica) and Sennheiser MD421 and working them in phase so that their signals complement each other and/or the use of multiple high end amps at once in a well-treated and open space.
Quote by keiron_d
thank you sooooooo much for the advice Fast_Fingers...i would hug you if i could...i looooove you!


True love exists in UG. Can you feel it?

Recording Guitar Amps 101
Last edited by Fast_Fingers at Aug 31, 2008,
#4
Quote by touji-za-nai
Every so often I hear a band on UG with GREAT sound quality, and beautiful mixing.

So I come with a question UGers, taking into mind I play metal, what is a great way to get BIG guitar sound? Not "bassy", not boomy, but DEEP, BIG.
example:
BlindedColony

The only thing I know is use multiple mics to imitate a large orchestral effect, and get 2 perfect takes of the same rhythm, and pan them hard left and right.



for this sound in particular everyone copies the KSE thing of using 5150s and Framus Cobras or another double amp setup similar (i use 5150, marshall and a carvin v3 often together). Theres a lot of tricks out there..one common on is just reposition your sm57 off the centre of the speaker.

For this particular music room mics etc arent used that often because they want a really dry tight guitar sound. also i use the bbe sonic maximiser plugin and spectralive. These help to keep the tracks lively without making the amp harsh because you are having to use the notorious presence on the 5150 to compensate for clarity in death metal.

Also check out the metallica classic album documentary it shows how many guitar tracks they use (often 3 overdubs for james)
#5
Quote by Cabron1
for this sound in particular everyone copies the KSE thing of using 5150s and Framus Cobras or another double amp setup similar (i use 5150, marshall and a carvin v3 often together). Theres a lot of tricks out there..one common on is just reposition your sm57 off the centre of the speaker.

For this particular music room mics etc arent used that often because they want a really dry tight guitar sound. also i use the bbe sonic maximiser plugin and spectralive. These help to keep the tracks lively without making the amp harsh because you are having to use the notorious presence on the 5150 to compensate for clarity in death metal.

Also check out the metallica classic album documentary it shows how many guitar tracks they use (often 3 overdubs for james)


I actually use the BBE Sonic Maximizer pedal in the effects loop to "remove the blanket" Like you were saying without making the highs ice cold using presence.
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall 1960A vintage
Rg3exfm1 w/ EMG 85/81
Big Baby Taylor Acoustic
Ibanez TS808
#6
@fast fingers - it is important to actually have a second unique take. It is the small variances in timing and feel that give your two guitar tracks enough individuality to give it that bigger sound.

The key word there is individuality. More of the same sounds like, well... more of the same.

Change things up.

Try a different mic; a different mic position; a different guitar; a different amp; a different pickup setting; a different EQ/FX setting, etc. for your second take. (called 'doubling.')

Also try nudging one forward or backward a few milliseconds in time. You'll be amazed at the difference that can make. It will take some experimenting, though to find the best setting for depth, and to ensure that you're not getting phasing issues. In any case, I can pretty much guarantee that 20ms will be too much. Start somewhere in the 5-10ms range.

It is that difference that will make them bigger.

Also, you can not only double, but add three layers... four...

Be careful, though, because sometimes less is more. On our album, we started with about four layers for each of two guitars (not counting solos) giving us over eight tracks of guitar. We found that it was too much, and by trimming it down to four tracks (two for each guitarist), we got a much bigger and a much more natural sound.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#7
Quote by axemanchris
@fast fingers - it is important to actually have a second unique take. It is the small variances in timing and feel that give your two guitar tracks enough individuality to give it that bigger sound.

The key word there is individuality. More of the same sounds like, well... more of the same.

Change things up.

Try a different mic; a different mic position; a different guitar; a different amp; a different pickup setting; a different EQ/FX setting, etc. for your second take. (called 'doubling.')

Also try nudging one forward or backward a few milliseconds in time. You'll be amazed at the difference that can make. It will take some experimenting, though to find the best setting for depth, and to ensure that you're not getting phasing issues. In any case, I can pretty much guarantee that 20ms will be too much. Start somewhere in the 5-10ms range.

It is that difference that will make them bigger.

Also, you can not only double, but add three layers... four...

Be careful, though, because sometimes less is more. On our album, we started with about four layers for each of two guitars (not counting solos) giving us over eight tracks of guitar. We found that it was too much, and by trimming it down to four tracks (two for each guitarist), we got a much bigger and a much more natural sound.

CT



your guitars sound big which is great but way to much saturated distortion!!
#8
Very true AxeManChris. There are no cut and dried rules about any recording technique...it's probably best to have an analog device like the Radial Phazer or IBP that you can physically manipulate to determine whatever sounds best with your ears...in phase is just a suggestion to start with, though I love the thickness.
As for reamping...I guess if you play consistently enough and don't mind doing multiple takes, then it doesn't hurt having a little individuality. But if time's a constraint...
On a side note, I've heard some people swear by adding the clean sound of the DI track to the amplified sound...it never hurts to try.
Quote by keiron_d
thank you sooooooo much for the advice Fast_Fingers...i would hug you if i could...i looooove you!


True love exists in UG. Can you feel it?

Recording Guitar Amps 101
#9
Quote by Cabron1
your guitars sound big which is great but way to much saturated distortion!!


Thanks! Agreed. We all learn things to improve each time we go out.

To get the size, we had two guitar players, typically each of us using two different guitars. We also used, as an alternative to using the same amp all the time for all the parts, some direct tracks that used an amp modeling plugin, or a V-Amp. But yeah, they'd probably sound even bigger if we (erm... I) used less gain.

Another thing I remembered: Part of a big guitar sound is having them blend well with the bass. I have heard (and done) guitar tracks that don't sound all that wonderful by themselves, but when you bring up the bass in the mix, they just chunk right up and sound huge.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
Last edited by axemanchris at Sep 1, 2008,
#10
Quote by touji-za-nai
Every so often I hear a band on UG with GREAT sound quality, and beautiful mixing.

So I come with a question UGers, taking into mind I play metal, what is a great way to get BIG guitar sound? Not "bassy", not boomy, but DEEP, BIG.
example:
BlindedColony

The only thing I know is use multiple mics to imitate a large orchestral effect, and get 2 perfect takes of the same rhythm, and pan them hard left and right.


the guitars have a lot of gain but don't sound quite as big as they could. really scooped and sorta.. "in the back"

multiple mics can work REALLY well but take a mathematically precise setup otherwise you'll hit phasing issues making your sound very weak.

some bands use multiple takes on both left and right channels.. giving a sort of wall of sound. but that can get messy if you're not super tight.

best is to just have a good amount of mids. dial back the gain a bit, and the biggest part is to have it FIT within the other frequencies the other instruments are already occupying.
Grammar and spelling omitted as an exercise for the reader.