#1
I went to a local music store yesterday, and I tried out a gibson sg standard, fender telecaster standard, and a used HSS fender deluxe strat. Now nevermind what guitar i'm going to buy, i'm just wondering about the "feel" of the guitar when i'm trying it out. Sure, they feel different, but that difference seems quite subtle to me. So I have a few questions:

1) When you talk about "feel," does that mean how easily I can bend a string, or how easy it is to make a chord, and stuff like that? Because it was kinda hard to bend strings on the strat, do I just have weak hands or is it the guitar? (I could bend strings on the sg and telecaster no problem). Would a professional setup fix this? Couldn't a setup fix any little problems i'm having with any guitar i try?

2) What should i be checking for in terms of how well made the guitar is?

3) The maple neck on the telecaster seems almost "sticky" to me. Does this go away with time, or is it always going to be like that?

4) I also noticed that even the same guitar feels different. I tried 3 different standard sg's and one was great, one had fret buzz, and the last one could barely stay in tune. I know fret buzz can be fixed with a setup, but can the tuning thing be fixed?

5) Lastly, if the feel is good on all of them, should tone be the thing i base my decision on?

Sorry for all the questions, any help is greatly appreciated. Cheers.
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do." ~Bob Dylan

Rock on.
#2
1. The Strat definitely had high action. A setup would fix that. But that's all only part of the feel of a guitar, the other part is how natural you feel holding it. For example if I had to pick between an LP or a Strat for comfort, the Strat wins by a mile. If I was going for looks then I would take the LP. But I'd rather have a comfortable, simple guitar that sounds great over some sick-nasty looking, ungodly torture machine that sounds great. I don't play much metal, either.

2. You need to check literally every aspect of the guitar, every nook and cranny. Play it up and down.

3. With time it would go away, depending on how often you play it. It can be fixed, though.

4. Part of the tuning problem is probably the strings, the other part idk what it could have been but I'm sure it can be fixed.

5. If they all feel good or equally good go for tone, looks, price in that order. Also think about what music you want to play, some guitars are suited for things others aren't. If you play harder, faster stuff then the SG is a shoo-in. Strats and Teles are pretty versatile though
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#3
All guitars feel very different to me. An SG "feels" like a slightly uncomfortable toy, a strat feels nice to sit down with and very comfortable overall, and a Les Paul feels heavy and has a thick neck.

Most things like bad action and string tension are fixable.
#4
Ya i'm having a hard time with this one, my styles range from blues to classic rock to hard rock to classic metal (think Van Halen-esque). I mean, sure, telecaster can do blues and classic rock, but i guess it's not really "suited" for hard rock/metal. I mean, with the right amp though, it could be doable right? Since I really like the feel of it and all. But then i think, an HSS strat would be perfect, since most of my heroes had one (Jimi, Stevie) plus i could put a really nice humbucker in the bridge for those hard rock/metal tones. Plus the feel of the strat is great too. But then the SG is just as good with feel, maybe a little less, and it has a really good tone overall, for blues, rock or metal. Ugh.
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do." ~Bob Dylan

Rock on.
#5
Quote by sugarcrash
But then the SG is just as good with feel, maybe a little less, and it has a really good tone overall, for blues, rock or metal. Ugh.


Personally I don't like the sound of SG for metal. It sounds like a Les Paul, but with a lot of mid that makes it sound more punk/hardcore. Go for the HSS strat.
#6
Don't go for the strat for metal. It has a very bouncy feel when you play. Very POPPY when you pick it then it gets really sparkly and monotone as you hold the note. LP's and SG's don't do that. I've never heard much metal that calls for that.
#7
1) Feelis to do with everything, basically how it feels to yours hands and body, how comfy it is holding the neck, the radiusing of the fingerboard, the width of the neck and shape,how the action of the guitar feels for picking and playing, the tension of the strings can usually just be reduced by going down in a string gauge

2) Everything

3) The newer standard tele necks are quite renown for being sticky, after playing a while it will wear off

4) Thats true, most of the same guitar will probably feel significantly different mainly due to action, but gibson arent really all that consistant these days in terms of qc tbh

5) I'd say so yes, providing you know theres a good base body wood, because pickups are easily upgraded, and if you have a good amp, there isnt much to worry about.
#8
Quote by sugarcrash
I went to a local music store yesterday, and I tried out a gibson sg standard, fender telecaster standard, and a used HSS fender deluxe strat. Now nevermind what guitar i'm going to buy, i'm just wondering about the "feel" of the guitar when i'm trying it out. Sure, they feel different, but that difference seems quite subtle to me. So I have a few questions:

1) When you talk about "feel," does that mean how easily I can bend a string, or how easy it is to make a chord, and stuff like that? Because it was kinda hard to bend strings on the strat, do I just have weak hands or is it the guitar? (I could bend strings on the sg and telecaster no problem). Would a professional setup fix this? Couldn't a setup fix any little problems i'm having with any guitar i try?

2) What should i be checking for in terms of how well made the guitar is?

3) The maple neck on the telecaster seems almost "sticky" to me. Does this go away with time, or is it always going to be like that?

4) I also noticed that even the same guitar feels different. I tried 3 different standard sg's and one was great, one had fret buzz, and the last one could barely stay in tune. I know fret buzz can be fixed with a setup, but can the tuning thing be fixed?

5) Lastly, if the feel is good on all of them, should tone be the thing i base my decision on?

Sorry for all the questions, any help is greatly appreciated. Cheers.


1. Feel is just like if the neck is comfy and accessible and you dont have any problems playing riffs/solos/chords etc. I just generally see it as if I can pick the guitar up and play it comfortably.

2. Just check for everything possible, check screws, input jack, everything......

3. I think as a person earlier mentioned that the stickiness wears off after a while.

4. Tuning can be made better by tightening the tuning heads if they're stupidly loose, but if they're not then it might need new tuning heads which aren't too cheap.

5. If you like the feel of all of them, go by which tone you prefer, yes.
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#9
About the stickiness on the Tele. Everyone's hands are different. Some people's hands stick on guitars that are really fast for others. If it feels stick and uncomfortable after playing for at least 20 minutes, look elsewhere.

Plus the only thing the Telecaster would be good for stock is blues, and maybe really soft rock.

I recommend the HSS deluxe strat. You could get into metal territories with it. Especially if by metal you mean Van Halen. It will do you well. It's a nice simple guitar. Not too many bells and whistles. It's just what you need.
#10
I feel the guitar it self should be much about feel and looks, It should look amazing to you and have the perfect neck, the fastness of the neck YOU want, a guitar body that feels like you want it to. Some prefer the heaviness of a Les Paul, or the thin comfy strat body. My guitar teacher said that a guitar's sound is 75% of the amp, and i agree with it, cuse i tried a les paul custom using a behringer amp(it sucked) and then with a high-end Marshall amp(AMAZING!) this was at a shop. So basically take the one that feels and looks right to YOU
#11
i would say a les paul for what you want, however if you braodened your horizons a bit wit brands etc you could get a guitar that does all you want and that feeles good.
try some ESP/LTDs or maybe a PRS
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#12
thanks a lot for the comments dudes
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do." ~Bob Dylan

Rock on.
#13
Quote by sugarcrash
I went to a local music store yesterday, and I tried out a gibson sg standard, fender telecaster standard, and a used HSS fender deluxe strat. Now nevermind what guitar i'm going to buy, i'm just wondering about the "feel" of the guitar when i'm trying it out. Sure, they feel different, but that difference seems quite subtle to me. So I have a few questions:

1) When you talk about "feel," does that mean how easily I can bend a string, or how easy it is to make a chord, and stuff like that? Because it was kinda hard to bend strings on the strat, do I just have weak hands or is it the guitar? (I could bend strings on the sg and telecaster no problem). Would a professional setup fix this? Couldn't a setup fix any little problems i'm having with any guitar i try?

2) What should i be checking for in terms of how well made the guitar is?

3) The maple neck on the telecaster seems almost "sticky" to me. Does this go away with time, or is it always going to be like that?

4) I also noticed that even the same guitar feels different. I tried 3 different standard sg's and one was great, one had fret buzz, and the last one could barely stay in tune. I know fret buzz can be fixed with a setup, but can the tuning thing be fixed?

5) Lastly, if the feel is good on all of them, should tone be the thing i base my decision on?

Sorry for all the questions, any help is greatly appreciated. Cheers.


1. I think "feel" is just what you thought of it. If it hindered you in anyway, then it has bad feel, if it let you play everything you want to (we're talking technical ability etc here, not tone) then if has a good feel to it. The strat could be either because you're not used to the radius of the fretboard (9.5? I'm not a strat fan, forgive me if I'm wrong) or because of high action. High action can be fixed by a setup, and you'll get used to the radius.

2. Everything. Look at the grain of the wood, scratches, dents, etc. Look if and screws are loose, look if wires are coming loose, listen for snaps or pops when you turn volume or tone pots, check tuning stability when using a vibrato tailpiece, etc.

3. It will probably wear in with time, it was new, correct? That can be common. Time will usually make it smoother.

4. Fret buzz can be fixed, and you can always add new locking tuners or a locking bridge and TOM system, also the strings could have been, well, strung differently, which can lead to better or worse tuning stability. You just have to keep trying for that gem, but if you don't find the one there's no one saying you can't make it.

5. If you feel the same level of comfort on each guitar, then yes, tone and also what you're playing should come first (I.E. the SG would PROBABLY be the best for metal, but no one's saying you can't play that genre with a tele).

And that's not a lot of questions, I've asked plenty more .
#14
guitar "feel" is a combination of many things. It consists of weight, balance, neck shape, action, and countless other things. But flaws can be mitigated by just "bonding" with the instrument.
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#15
ya kuz i was in the store, and there was this guy shredding on a telecaster. i mean with the right amp, can't i really get any sound i want out of a guitar? i know there will ALWAYS BE BETTER SUITED guitars for certain genres but i mean if i really like the feel of it...since i really like the HSS deluxe strat, i mean it's not suited for metal, but with the right bridge humbucker, and the right amp, (looking at a traynor yc40 blue or w/e), it would do quite well right?
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do." ~Bob Dylan

Rock on.
#16
to #5, yes.

problem with feel is that things like type of strings and how old they are, etc., can affect the feel. and those things are easily fixed. you kind of need to be able to decipher which feel things can be improved, and which can't, which isn't always easy...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#17
ya kuz i was in the store, and there was this guy shredding on a telecaster. i mean with the right amp, can't i really get any sound i want out of a guitar? i know there will ALWAYS BE BETTER SUITED guitars for certain genres but i mean if i really like the feel of it...since i really like the HSS deluxe strat, i mean it's not suited for metal, but with the right bridge humbucker, and the right amp, (looking at a traynor yc40 blue or w/e), it would do quite well right?


I think HSS strats/super-strats are just fine for metal -- they cover a lot of tonal ground very well, and are very comfortable to play IMO. If you need to thicken your tone, you could consider using an eq pedal to boost your mids.

I think the guitar comfort thing is often a matter of what you are accustomed to: if you learned on a strat, you might find them more comfortable and familiar to play.

And yes, even Teles can be used for metal, although they often get modded for that. Devin Townsend uses a tele with emgs, tuned to open C, through a Mesa Boogie and his tone could definitely be called "metal".
#18
My Washburn is one of a few guitars I've tried that actually feels great to me.
I tried someone's Schecter synyster custom the other day, it sucks, the neck was really slow and the action was too high. I hate Fender and Gibson feel too.
''Feel'' is specific to the player, some people like Ibanez Wizard necks while others go for Gibson LP's.
#19
thnx dudes
also, im buying a tube amp soon to complement my guitar, but i've heard that the amp should come first, and also, that it should be about twice the price? the thing is, i have this Indonesian made squier strat piece of crap, and the playability is awful, so I really want to get a guitar first. And if I follow the amp/guitar price rule, with the $2000 or so i have to spend, about 1300 should go to the amp and about 700 to the guitar? do you guys agree with this? Also, if its any help, i'm not buying them both at the same time, as my parents would go nuts me spending that much cash at once. I'm probably going to buy one thing now, and then maybe in about 5-6 months i'll buy the other. Can I go another half a year with my shitty ass squier? Just keep that in mind. Thnx a bunch.
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do." ~Bob Dylan

Rock on.
#20
^ it's really up to you. if you can't stand the playability of your squier, then get a guitar first if you're sure you'll upgrade your amp soon. at that kind of money, i'd agree with the 1300:700 ratio of amp to guitar, though. Obviously try different guitars and amps at different prices, of course, just in case you find something which just works, regardless of the ratio. All these things are rough guidelines, not rules.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
Quote by sugarcrash
thnx dudes
also, im buying a tube amp soon to complement my guitar, but i've heard that the amp should come first, and also, that it should be about twice the price? the thing is, i have this Indonesian made squier strat piece of crap, and the playability is awful, so I really want to get a guitar first. And if I follow the amp/guitar price rule, with the $2000 or so i have to spend, about 1300 should go to the amp and about 700 to the guitar? do you guys agree with this? Also, if its any help, i'm not buying them both at the same time, as my parents would go nuts me spending that much cash at once. I'm probably going to buy one thing now, and then maybe in about 5-6 months i'll buy the other. Can I go another half a year with my shitty ass squier? Just keep that in mind. Thnx a bunch.


you don't have to abide by these rules. my guitar was 800$ new and my amp was only 650$ new. i am completely happy with the tones from my bugera.

try out as much as you can. don't jsut spend extra money because some "rule" told you to. however if the more expensive amp ends up being the right one, by all means get it. just don't pigeon hole yourself and consider all options.

amp or guitar first... whatever you think you need more.
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Last edited by Connah at Sep 5, 2008,
#22
hey just a question for anybody who owns the traynor yc40 blue or who has tried one
what styles wud u say it does very well, ok, and poorly? and kud u please give some artist examples? rite now it looks like i'll be plugging an hss strat into it. thnx
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do." ~Bob Dylan

Rock on.
#23
Quote by TheArcadeFire

Plus the only thing the Telecaster would be good for stock is blues, and maybe really soft rock.


What the fuck are you talking about?

Teles are well versatile. The other gear in your chain makes up a huge percent of your tone. If you can't get the tone you want out of one, you just aren't using the right amp and/or pedals.
#24
^ i wouldn't go that far... the guitar is pretty important too. but i'd agree that a tele is much more versatile than he's giving it credit for.

Quote by sugarcrash
hey just a question for anybody who owns the traynor yc40 blue or who has tried one
what styles wud u say it does very well, ok, and poorly? and kud u please give some artist examples? rite now it looks like i'll be plugging an hss strat into it. thnx


from what i can remember, imagine a fender with a much better overdrive channel. i guess it's good for blues, jazz, classic rock and hard rock. probably indie too.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
new strings go out of tune till you break them in.

spend alot of time with your guitar before you buy it. you might need to open alot of boxes before you find the right one.

if the guitar buzzes, chuck it. dont buy a project guitar. get a real salesman and demand good stuff or go elsewhere. dont let them sell you garbage!

be damanding no matter what the price is.
#26
kk thnx for the advice everyone
and hey dave, do u think i kud get van halen/iron maiden esque tones out of the amp? kuz if it can then im completely sold on that amp
thnx again everyone
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do." ~Bob Dylan

Rock on.
#27
to me i can feel how the strings vibrate when you hit chords and notes etc. Its hard to explain over the internet. I played a cheap PRS and it felt like shit, and i played my friends FX-260 LTD and it was amazing in comparison.

Also string tension and texture and shape of the neck play a big part.
#28
Personally, I never base a purchase on tone. Some of the greatest guitarists out there have cheap as hell guitars. It's all in the feel. 99.9% of tone comes from your fingertips. Whatever feels natural to you is what's right. That's why sometimes you'll have a $1500 guitar and your friend's $200 will sound better. It's all technique.
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#29
Quote by sugarcrash
kk thnx for the advice everyone
and hey dave, do u think i kud get van halen/iron maiden esque tones out of the amp? kuz if it can then im completely sold on that amp
thnx again everyone


possibly. however, from what i hear, the ycv50 sounds more marshally (i haven't tried it, just the 40 and 20)- and maiden and van halen are both very marshally in tonality. It might be worth looking into the 50 instead for the tones you want. at least, certainly try both if you can.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
Quote by Cody_Grey102
Personally, I never base a purchase on tone. Some of the greatest guitarists out there have cheap as hell guitars. It's all in the feel. 99.9% of tone comes from your fingertips. Whatever feels natural to you is what's right. That's why sometimes you'll have a $1500 guitar and your friend's $200 will sound better. It's all technique.

Totally agreed. Feel>Sound, especially in the guitar.
#31
oh okay
the thing is, basing on the 3 hours i spent at the store, the telecaster felt soo nice to me, but, it's not like the strat was far off, and it seems like the strat wud do much better for me based on the tones i want. so do i go for the guitar that feels slightly better but not really suitable for my tones or do i get a guitar that feels almost as good and has the tones i want?
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do." ~Bob Dylan

Rock on.
#32
Quote by Wonthefu
What the fuck are you talking about?

Teles are well versatile. The other gear in your chain makes up a huge percent of your tone. If you can't get the tone you want out of one, you just aren't using the right amp and/or pedals.



everything is equally important from Pick to Speaker. A lot of amp aficionados often have cheap guitars, and vice versa my friend has a 335 and a LP custom and a marshall mg!
#33
Quote by KThxBai.
everything is equally important from Pick to Speaker. A lot of amp aficionados often have cheap guitars, and vice versa my friend has a 335 and a LP custom and a marshall mg!


I am sad for your friend.
#34
Quote by sugarcrash
oh okay
the thing is, basing on the 3 hours i spent at the store, the telecaster felt soo nice to me, but, it's not like the strat was far off, and it seems like the strat wud do much better for me based on the tones i want. so do i go for the guitar that feels slightly better but not really suitable for my tones or do i get a guitar that feels almost as good and has the tones i want?


i would go with the latter, but it's really up to you. or better yet, go with both, which would be the internet-guitar-forum-approved answer.
EDIT: actually, which tele and strat was it? perhaps you could try to find a strat with a neck closer to the tele you tried.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#35
Quote by Cody_Grey102
Personally, I never base a purchase on tone. Some of the greatest guitarists out there have cheap as hell guitars. It's all in the feel. 99.9% of tone comes from your fingertips. Whatever feels natural to you is what's right. That's why sometimes you'll have a $1500 guitar and your friend's $200 will sound better. It's all technique.


Always reminded of the youtube video of joe satriani playing a really cheap strat copy, still sounds awesome, and you know its him playing it if you were just listening.
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#36
Quote by sugarcrash
I went to a local music store yesterday, and I tried out a gibson sg standard, fender telecaster standard, and a used HSS fender deluxe strat. Now nevermind what guitar i'm going to buy, i'm just wondering about the "feel" of the guitar when i'm trying it out. Sure, they feel different, but that difference seems quite subtle to me. So I have a few questions:

1) When you talk about "feel," does that mean how easily I can bend a string, or how easy it is to make a chord, and stuff like that? Because it was kinda hard to bend strings on the strat, do I just have weak hands or is it the guitar? (I could bend strings on the sg and telecaster no problem). Would a professional setup fix this? Couldn't a setup fix any little problems i'm having with any guitar i try?

2) What should i be checking for in terms of how well made the guitar is?

3) The maple neck on the telecaster seems almost "sticky" to me. Does this go away with time, or is it always going to be like that?

4) I also noticed that even the same guitar feels different. I tried 3 different standard sg's and one was great, one had fret buzz, and the last one could barely stay in tune. I know fret buzz can be fixed with a setup, but can the tuning thing be fixed?

5) Lastly, if the feel is good on all of them, should tone be the thing i base my decision on?

Sorry for all the questions, any help is greatly appreciated. Cheers.


1. A good setup will make any guitar play better, but it won't make it perfect. The deal with the strat sounds like a setup issue.

2. Everything. Even how much it weighs, how it smells, what note it makes when you knock on the body vs the neck, everything.

3. This will probably go away with time.

4. What can happen on Gibson style tuners is that the screws can become loose that hold them in place, resulting in tuning slippage. The fret buzz would be fixed by a set up, but unless there was some reason to buy that one, I wouldn't, as a first encounter with guitar shouldn't be a setup.

5. Yeah, go for the one you think sounds best. I think you know what my recommendation is. SG's can do all sorts of genres very well, Strats and teles can do pretty much everything except for metal, which the SG excels at.
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#37
Quote by Cody_Grey102
Personally, I never base a purchase on tone. Some of the greatest guitarists out there have cheap as hell guitars. It's all in the feel. 99.9% of tone comes from your fingertips. Whatever feels natural to you is what's right. That's why sometimes you'll have a $1500 guitar and your friend's $200 will sound better. It's all technique.


Sure I understand that, but doesn't the amp play a big part in the tone as well?
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do." ~Bob Dylan

Rock on.
#38
Quote by Wonthefu
What the fuck are you talking about?

Teles are well versatile. The other gear in your chain makes up a huge percent of your tone. If you can't get the tone you want out of one, you just aren't using the right amp and/or pedals.



It's not so cut and dry.... It definitely depends on your setup, but I would say that using a Tele for metal and things is a bit foolish if you can get other things for the same price.

I like Telecasters though. I played a MiM Tele with a neck humbucker at my local shop through a Classic 50, and I adored the tone I got from it.

I'd say though, if it fits your style, go for it. Tele's are awesome guitars.
#39
Quote by sugarcrash
Sure I understand that, but doesn't the amp play a big part in the tone as well?


of course.

Quote by TheArcadeFire
It's not so cut and dry.... It definitely depends on your setup, but I would say that using a Tele for metal and things is a bit foolish if you can get other things for the same price.


agreed.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?