Poll: What is your take
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View poll results: What is your take
I agree.
8 53%
The two notations are interchangeable.
4 27%
I disagree; you have the notations flipped.
1 7%
I have a radically different idea (please post said idea).
2 13%
Voters: 15.
#1
Let's set everything at 120 beats per minute (bpm) in 4/4 time.

If you play a 16th-note triplet, or several in a row, you are playing at 12 notes per second* (nps). Likewise, if you play a 6:4 phrase, you are playing 12 nps.

So what is the difference? I say that a 16th-note triplet is two 8th notes, but you pick three notes on each 8th note. The count is Ba-ba-ba Ba-ba-ba. Conversely, 6:4 means that you have an 8th note triplet and you play 2 notes on each note of the triplet. The count is Ba-ba Ba-ba Ba-ba.

I'm almost certain I'm correct about this, but what do you all think?

I can post pictures from PT with accent marks if that would help clarify anything.


*Calculated by:

(Number of rhythms of that type in one beat)*(Tempo of Song)/60

So 16th-note triplets at 120 bpm would be:

(6)(120)/60=12

And that's why we use nps, Munky!
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Sep 5, 2008,
#2
to me you'd be playing at the same speed, same amount of notes, but the rhythm implied by each would be different. Like with the triplets the first out of the three would have more oomph to it, probably made evident by the players picking dynamics. 6:4 the first note would still be the the prominent note, but it would be every other note.

*shrugs* I don't really see what the point of the question is
#3
Quote by The4thHorsemen
I don't really see what the point of the question is
It's kinder than me saying, "this is how it works, bitch."

That said, is this how it works, bitches?

And based on the rest of your (unquoted) response, you appear to agree with me.
#4
I agree with your ba notation, though I imagine in practical usage a lot of composers might use the "wrong" one(16th triplets where there are three pulses, etc).
#5
Quote by grampastumpy
I agree with your ba notation, though I imagine in practical usage a lot of composers might use the "wrong" one(16th triplets where there are three pulses, etc).
So you think I'm right but most people write it incorrectly?
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Sep 5, 2008,
#6
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You you think I'm right but most people write it incorrectly?
Not so much wrong, but just how the rhythm dotted quarter dotted quarter quarter technically fits the best in 8/8, it is written in 4/4 all the time. That is, you're right, but for almost all practical intents and purposes they're pretty much interchangeable.
#7
16th note triplets-3:2
6:4 is also called sextuplets to make it easy.

While it generally doesn't matter, If you want to be specific I believe that triplet's should generally be accented every 3 notes, where as sextuplet's are accented every 6 notes. While I'm not 100% that this is true, it seems logical to me when you are getting into that detail of specifics.

The way i see it is this:
As you said, 16th note triplets could be seen as two eighth notes with 3 notes per beat. Da-da-da Da-da-da. As it's 3 in the time of 2 16th notes, it's easier to count them over eighth notes, as one eighth is the same duration as 2 16ths, and it's much easier to think Da-da-da Da-da-da than:
Da-da(da)-da Da-da(da)-da, or something like that.

By the same token, sextuplets are 6 in the time of 4 sixteenth notes.
By itself, this would be something like:

Da--da--da--da--da--da
Da----da----da----da-

Since this is relatively confusing to count, you could only count eighth notes for the beats:


Da-da-da-da-da-da
Da-------da------


This is relatively simple to count, but runs the risk of making it seem that you are putting groups of 3 in the time of 2 instead of groups of 6 in the time of 4 (again, the accents create a different feel). Now, you may be able to avoid this, or you could simply have one quarter note:
Da-da-da-da-da-da
Da-------------------
Now while this doesn't guarantee that it will feel like groups of six, in my experience, the pulse of the beat only on the quarter notes helps.


Sorry if that was hard to understand, I don't feel like I was very clear....while I was writing all the sudden I though..."why am I going in this direction, I was supposed to be moving to that," so forgive me if I killed my explanation.

In a brief summary:
For all practical purposes, it doesn't really matter imo. When being picky though, I feel that typically triplet's would be accented to feel like groups of three whereas 6:4 groups would be accented to feel like groups of six. Though the doubled eighth note triplets Idea is cool too though, and I have found myself upon occasion to be playing like that.


meh. writing about this is making me re-think my ideas. Perhaps I'll chat with my music theory teacher about it in the coming weeks. If I do, I'll let you know what I find out.
#8
Interesting thread. I love getting deeper into things.

Quote by TheShred201

In a brief summary:
For all practical purposes, it doesn't really matter imo. When being picky though, I feel that typically triplet's would be accented to feel like groups of three whereas 6:4 groups would be accented to feel like groups of six. Though the doubled eighth note triplets Idea is cool too though, and I have found myself upon occasion to be playing like that.



Yeah, that was how it always made sense to me. Like the 6:4 time would feel like 16th notes, just with 2 extra notes on the end, while the 16th triplets have the really strong 2 groups of 3 feeling.
#9
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Let's set everything at 120 beats per minute (bpm) in 4/4 time.

If you play a 16th-note triplet, or several in a row, you are playing at 12 notes per second* (nps). Likewise, if you play a 6:4 phrase, you are playing 12 nps.

So what is the difference? I say that a 16th-note triplet is two 8th notes, but you pick three notes on each 8th note. The count is Ba-ba-ba Ba-ba-ba. Conversely, 6:4 means that you have an 8th note triplet and you play 2 notes on each note of the triplet. The count is Ba-ba Ba-ba Ba-ba.

I'm almost certain I'm correct about this, but what do you all think?

I can post pictures from PT with accent marks if that would help clarify anything.


*Calculated by:

(Number of rhythms of that type in one beat)*(Tempo of Song)/60

So 16th-note triplets at 120 bpm would be:

(6)(120)/60=12

And that's why we use nps, Munky!


the overriding principle is almost always to make what you're notating as easy for people to read as possible... so I would only deviate from groups of 16th note triplets if the accenting really emphasised the underlying '8th note triplet' feel..



in which case I'd also beam the groups of two notes together to show the division of 3 and use 6:4 (note you don't have to use the :4 part if there are all 6 sixteenth notes)...



under some circumstances it's also permissible to show this as 3:2 (or 3 if you beam it properly) if you have similar figures surrounding it... it depends on what's most legible to the reader... notation 'rules' are not written in stone... eg:

out of here
Last edited by inflatablefilth at Sep 6, 2008,
#11
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Let's set everything at 120 beats per minute (bpm) in 4/4 time.

If you play a 16th-note triplet, or several in a row, you are playing at 12 notes per second* (nps). Likewise, if you play a 6:4 phrase, you are playing 12 nps.

So what is the difference? I say that a 16th-note triplet is two 8th notes, but you pick three notes on each 8th note. The count is Ba-ba-ba Ba-ba-ba. Conversely, 6:4 means that you have an 8th note triplet and you play 2 notes on each note of the triplet. The count is Ba-ba Ba-ba Ba-ba.

I'm almost certain I'm correct about this, but what do you all think?


Of course that's correct, why do you ask?
#13
Quote by bangoodcharlote

And that's why we use nps, Munky!


No its not, NPS is irrelevant. Your just trying to justify an old argument.

as someone mentioned.... notate it the way that makes the most sense to the reader.

Quote by inflatablefilth
the overriding principle is almost always to make what you're notating as easy for people to read as possible..


+ 1
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Sep 6, 2008,
#14
Quote by GuitarMunky
No its not, NPS is irrelevant. Your just trying to justify an old argument.
It's not important to establish the fact the 16th-note triplets and 16th notes in a 6:4 grouping are the same speed but accented differently?
#15
Quote by bangoodcharlote
It's not important to establish the fact the 16th-note triplets and 16th notes in a 6:4 grouping are the same speed but accented differently?


the term NPS is not needed to establish that, and was not conceived for the purpose of establishing things of that nature.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Sep 6, 2008,