#1
I was wondering how important a good cab/good speakers(drivers) were to good sound. And mainly what are the differences, what's good, and what's not.
#2
They actually affect your sound alot. Different speakers have different voicings, and poorly constructed cabs can muddy-up your tone.
#3
Okay, so then what are some popular one's? What are the different sounds they can produce, which are good for certain genres. If anyone can just post like an ultimate guide to speakers and cabs that's the kind of thing I'm looking for. And I know Celestion makes good speakers, but what are the differences in their different speakers?
#4
Your cab/speakers is easily just as important as your amp for getting good tone, though not quite as important in terms of actually shaping your sound. A JTM45 through a greenback loaded cab sounds different from a JTM45 through a g12h30 loaded cab, but still sounds like a JTM45.

But, the the best way to put it is this, no matter how good your amp is, your tone will be shit if you're using shit speakers. And you can make a shit amp sound decent by putting it with a good speaker. Just like no matter how good your guitar is, it'll sound like shit through a shit amp.

Picking speakers though is trickier than picking an amp because different speakers work well in different amps, some sound great with certain amps, and sound lousy with others.
#5
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=823671&highlight=speaker+thread

^ultimate speaker thread

I really like the Warehouse Veteran 30s myself. Warehouse makes great Celestion clones. Also look at Eminence. These are the speakers (and their clones) I'm familiar with:

Greenbacks - classic rock
V30s - modern rock, has alot of mids
G12T75s - modern rock, has scooped mids, better cleans
Legend V12s - A little bit of everything, sounds good but does nothing exceptionally well

There are a lot more speakers out there, but these are the ones I've tried.
#6
Honestly, now that celestions are made in china, i would go for eminence. They typically have a higher wattage rating (not always good, in case of greenback type speakers where breakup is desired) and they have a LOT more choice. You can really specialize what you want. Texas heats, and i think patriots are pretty common, well rounded speakers.
Look around though, if you can afford it, tone tubby's are supposed to sound REALLY good.
Gear:
Ibanez RG550 20th RFR
Traynor YCV50
Fender FMT HH Tele
Mesa Boogie 2ch Triple Rectifier
2 1x12 custom Theile cabs
ISP Decimator
Krank Kranshaft
Boss BF-2 Flanger
BBE Sonic Maximizer
#7
Quote by kool98769
Honestly, now that celestions are made in china, i would go for eminence. They typically have a higher wattage rating (not always good, in case of greenback type speakers where breakup is desired) and they have a LOT more choice. You can really specialize what you want. Texas heats, and i think patriots are pretty common, well rounded speakers.
Look around though, if you can afford it, tone tubby's are supposed to sound REALLY good.


How much do eminence speakers cost?

I've never really considered eminence for my current speaker choices (I've been looking more at Weber and Scumback lately), but if they're considerably cheaper, I may look into them a bit more heavily.

The chinese Celestions are not too bad though, but if I'm going to be spending that much on a speaker, I'd rather go for a Weber or Scumback.
#8
Quote by al112987
How much do eminence speakers cost?

I've never really considered eminence for my current speaker choices (I've been looking more at Weber and Scumback lately), but if they're considerably cheaper, I may look into them a bit more heavily.

The chinese Celestions are not too bad though, but if I'm going to be spending that much on a speaker, I'd rather go for a Weber or Scumback.

I think they're a bit cheaper than celestions. It really depends what you want though. I guess their red fang (celestion blue copy) is ALMOST as good as a blue, but at half the price. 30 watt speakers. you're more of a vintage guy, arent you?
Gear:
Ibanez RG550 20th RFR
Traynor YCV50
Fender FMT HH Tele
Mesa Boogie 2ch Triple Rectifier
2 1x12 custom Theile cabs
ISP Decimator
Krank Kranshaft
Boss BF-2 Flanger
BBE Sonic Maximizer
#9
I do prefer vintage/celestion style tone, so I do prefer lower watt speakers, the red fang seems like a good deal, $170 for an AlNiCo speaker is not bad at all, though I'm more of a ceramic guy to be honest.

I've been looking for a good set of speakers to use with my JTM45 for way too long, but just can't seem to be satisfied with a certain choice. I think I may just bite the bullet and shell out the cash for a set of Scumbacks H75s, they just sound spectacular. Unfortunately college and lack of funding is rearing its ugly head again.
#10
Quote by al112987
I do prefer vintage/celestion style tone, so I do prefer lower watt speakers, the red fang seems like a good deal, $170 for an AlNiCo speaker is not bad at all, though I'm more of a ceramic guy to be honest.

I've been looking for a good set of speakers to use with my JTM45 for way too long, but just can't seem to be satisfied with a certain choice. I think I may just bite the bullet and shell out the cash for a set of Scumbacks H75s, they just sound spectacular. Unfortunately college and lack of funding is rearing its ugly head again.

warehouse greenbacks!
lol
Gear:
Ibanez RG550 20th RFR
Traynor YCV50
Fender FMT HH Tele
Mesa Boogie 2ch Triple Rectifier
2 1x12 custom Theile cabs
ISP Decimator
Krank Kranshaft
Boss BF-2 Flanger
BBE Sonic Maximizer
#11
I'm not completely sold on the warehouse clones at this point. They are only about 10 bucks cheaper than the Eminence after their price increase, and I've heard several stories about them failing on other forums. The majority of them was the voice coil going. Also, I don't think the Chinese Celestions are too bad once they are broken in correctly. If you buy by the case of 4, they work out to about the same price as the Eminence. Have to figure, the rest of the companies are getting their parts from China too, even if they are assembled elsewhere.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#12
Quote by Erock503
I'm not completely sold on the warehouse clones at this point. They are only about 10 bucks cheaper than the Eminence after their price increase, and I've heard several stories about them failing on other forums. The majority of them was the voice coil going. Also, I don't think the Chinese Celestions are too bad once they are broken in correctly. If you buy by the case of 4, they work out to about the same price as the Eminence. Have to figure, the rest of the companies are getting their parts from China too, even if they are assembled elsewhere.

I don't completely buy the chinese celestion thing either. But whenever i said something contradicting it, got flamed.

In theory, the parts are going to be made by the exact same machines, and the only difference is going to be the assemblers. honestly, what makes english assemblers so much better than chinese?
Gear:
Ibanez RG550 20th RFR
Traynor YCV50
Fender FMT HH Tele
Mesa Boogie 2ch Triple Rectifier
2 1x12 custom Theile cabs
ISP Decimator
Krank Kranshaft
Boss BF-2 Flanger
BBE Sonic Maximizer
#13
Quote by kool98769
I don't completely buy the chinese celestion thing either. But whenever i said something contradicting it, got flamed.

In theory, the parts are going to be made by the exact same machines, and the only difference is going to be the assemblers. honestly, what makes english assemblers so much better than chinese?


I think better materials and different construction.

I'm not really much of a gear head when it comes to speakers but the the g12h and g12m chinese greenbacks sound different from their heritage counterparts. As in, they're tonally different. I think the heritage a SUPPOSEDLY made to pre-Rola Celestion specs, but people who own them along with Weber or Scumback pre-Rola clones or real vintage Celestions also claim they all sound different.



The chinese ones are not that bad though, I actually kind of like a broken in chinese g12h (though it takes about 20-50 hours of play time to get them really worn in and smooth out that ice pick treble).
#14
Quote by al112987
I think better materials and different construction.

I'm not really much of a gear head when it comes to speakers but the the g12h and g12m chinese greenbacks sound different from their heritage counterparts. As in, they're tonally different. I think the heritage a SUPPOSEDLY made to pre-Rola Celestion specs, but people who own them along with Weber or Scumback pre-Rola clones or real vintage Celestions also claim they all sound different.



The chinese ones are not that bad though, I actually kind of like a broken in chinese g12h (though it takes about 20-50 hours of play time to get them really worn in and smooth out that ice pick treble).

Woooooah here.

Vintage celestions is a much different story from like, last year's english celestions. People act like celestion is worthless now that the production is moved to china.
And why would it be worse materials? Different construction? There might be 100 ways to skin a cat, but honestly, they aren't going to completely change their ways to make a speaker just because they moved production to china. Chinese people are just as capable as english at making speakers. I think it's all a load of bollocks, and it was moved to china to keep the production cost down, because england has much higher wages than china.
Gear:
Ibanez RG550 20th RFR
Traynor YCV50
Fender FMT HH Tele
Mesa Boogie 2ch Triple Rectifier
2 1x12 custom Theile cabs
ISP Decimator
Krank Kranshaft
Boss BF-2 Flanger
BBE Sonic Maximizer
#15
I never said that Celestions are worthless since they moved to China, but you're acting like the Chinese Celestions are the same speakers as the English celestions, just made somewhere else, when they are not. Chinese celestions sound quite different from their heritage counterparts. Why would materials and construction be different? Because they're made to different specs.

I never said Heritage's were the same vintage Celestions, I said the Heritage are SUPPOSEDLY made to sound like pre-Rolas, though I'm not sure how accurate that is as people with actual pre-Rola spec Weber's and Scumbacks say they do not sound the same.
#16
Quote by kool98769
Woooooah here.

Vintage celestions is a much different story from like, last year's english celestions. People act like celestion is worthless now that the production is moved to china.
And why would it be worse materials? Different construction? There might be 100 ways to skin a cat, but honestly, they aren't going to completely change their ways to make a speaker just because they moved production to china. Chinese people are just as capable as english at making speakers. I think it's all a load of bollocks, and it was moved to china to keep the production cost down, because england has much higher wages than china.


Exactly. I was reading in a magazine sometime last year, I think it was, that the majority of the parts in Blackheart amps are made in their factory in China - but everyone around here seems to love those little amps!

Epiphone has a factory in China (most of their products are being manufactured there now rather than in Indonesia where they formerly were) and Epiphones are still great guitars.

Most companies are moving over to China because labor costs are cheaper there. That doesn't necessarily mean that the products is going to be greatly altered or of an extreme less quality - in fact, in most cases, the product is damn near the same (if not the same) as it was before the company moved production to China.
#17
Quote by al112987
I never said that Celestions are worthless since they moved to China, but you're acting like the Chinese Celestions are the same speakers as the English celestions, just made somewhere else, when they are not. Chinese celestions sound quite different from their heritage counterparts. Why would materials and construction be different? Because they're made to different specs.

I never said Heritage's were the same vintage Celestions, I said the Heritage are SUPPOSEDLY made to sound like pre-Rolas, though I'm not sure how accurate that is as people with actual pre-Rola spec Weber's and Scumbacks say they do not sound the same.

I know you didn't but a lot of people on here are like, well, might as well just get some 12 inch car speakers for the same effect.

I didn't know that they actually changed the specs, and i assume that most other people don't know. I assume its not one of those things you wanna brag about though.

"Hey guys, we moved our production to China, AND as a bonus we changed the specs of our highly successful speakers! Happy Holidays!"

Quote by i_am_metalhead
Exactly. I was reading in a magazine sometime last year, I think it was, that the majority of the parts in Blackheart amps are made in their factory in China - but everyone around here seems to love those little amps!

Epiphone has a factory in China (most of their products are being manufactured there now rather than in Indonesia where they formerly were) and Epiphones are still great guitars.

Most companies are moving over to China because labor costs are cheaper there. That doesn't necessarily mean that the products is going to be greatly altered or of an extreme less quality - in fact, in most cases, the product is damn near the same (if not the same) as it was before the company moved production to China.


Same thing with Ibanez guitars. People are like, it's made in japan, obviously they arent as good as american guitars!
No. They put in just as high quality materials as jackson does into their USA guitars, and the luthiers that are working in the japanese factories are just as capable as jackson's USA luthiers. It's all a bunch of USA supremicism. (is that even a word?)
Gear:
Ibanez RG550 20th RFR
Traynor YCV50
Fender FMT HH Tele
Mesa Boogie 2ch Triple Rectifier
2 1x12 custom Theile cabs
ISP Decimator
Krank Kranshaft
Boss BF-2 Flanger
BBE Sonic Maximizer
Last edited by kool98769 at Sep 6, 2008,
#18
i think it's much more complicated than you're making out, kool.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
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#19
Japanese guitars are on par with American built guitars.

Chinese, Korean, Indonesian, guitars however, have not shown to be in the boat.


As for the Chinese Celestions, I don't actually know when they changed their specs, its more likely they just kind of evolved over time and when people wanted clones of the vintage pre-Rola speakers, they just decided to go with the Heritage series. Both sound pretty good though, but the Heritage ones are definitely better sounding. Regardless, I don't see why people would pay $220 for a Heritage greenback when they could pay $105 for Ted Weber's pre-Rola clones or $160 for Scumback M75s.
Last edited by al112987 at Sep 6, 2008,
#20
Quote by al112987
Japanese guitars are on par with American built guitars.

Chinese, Korean, Indonesian, guitars however, have not shown to be in the boat.


As for the Chinese Celestions, I don't actually know when they changed their specs, its more likely they just kind of evolved over time and when people wanted clones of the vintage pre-Rola speakers, they just decided to go with the Heritage series. Both sound pretty good though, but the Heritage ones are definitely better sounding. Regardless, I don't see why people would pay $220 for a Heritage greenback when they could pay $105 for Ted Weber's pre-Rola clones or $160 for Scumback M75s.

The same reason people buy marshall MG's.
names sell.
I didn't realize that greenbacks were THAT expensive though.
Gear:
Ibanez RG550 20th RFR
Traynor YCV50
Fender FMT HH Tele
Mesa Boogie 2ch Triple Rectifier
2 1x12 custom Theile cabs
ISP Decimator
Krank Kranshaft
Boss BF-2 Flanger
BBE Sonic Maximizer
#21
Quote by kool98769
The same reason people buy marshall MG's.
names sell.
I didn't realize that greenbacks were THAT expensive though.



The chinese Greenback is $110 (for M) and $130 (for the H) on MF, and the Heritage models is $195 for the M and $220 for the H.

So yeah, the English made models are definitely more in price, but there are differences. The biggest difference I am aware of is that the Heritage H is based off the original g12h-30 55hz bass speaker, whereas the Chinese one is based off the 75hz lead speaker. I'm not really sure about the g12m-25 though.

Don't get me wrong though, they're all great speakers speakers, and despite the price the Heritage speakers are still the preferred choice of many very picky players, and some even prefer them over Webers and Scumbacks. Its just my opinion, but I sure wouldn't pay $880 for a quad of heritage Celestions when I can pay $420 for a quad of Weber silver bells.
Last edited by al112987 at Sep 6, 2008,
#22
Quote by al112987
The chinese Greenback is $110 (for M) and $130 (for the H) on MF, and the Heritage models is $195 for the M and $220 for the H.

So yeah, the English made models are definitely more in price, but there are differences. The biggest difference I am aware of is that the Heritage H is based off the original g12h-30 55hz bass speaker, whereas the Chinese one is based off the 75hz lead speaker. I'm not really sure about the g12m-25 though.

Don't get me wrong though, they're all great speakers speakers, and despite the price the Heritage speakers are still the preferred choice of many very picky players, and some even prefer them over Webers and Scumbacks. Its just my opinion, but I sure wouldn't pay $880 for a quad of heritage Celestions when I can pay $420 for a quad of Weber silver bells.

Yeah, i absolutely agree.
880 for a set of speakers is rediculous, excluding celestion blues/golds. lol
Gear:
Ibanez RG550 20th RFR
Traynor YCV50
Fender FMT HH Tele
Mesa Boogie 2ch Triple Rectifier
2 1x12 custom Theile cabs
ISP Decimator
Krank Kranshaft
Boss BF-2 Flanger
BBE Sonic Maximizer