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#2
They are usually used to cause dissonance so that you can resolve to a more consonant chord, such as major or minor.
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Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


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theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#4
watch your language there... you cant say something in music sounds like shit... i mean in music.. (rebelde doesnt count lol)
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#6
Because they add different flavors, create stronger tension. Thats just some reasons. I actually like the sound of them.
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
hey d00d i herd u dont like shred u r a genius 4 thinkin dat. all shred is fukin lame wit no soul u no wat im sayin??
#8
Can you possibly get anymore clueless?

Go listen to some early 70's era King Crimson. Dissonance for life.
#9
I love Diminished chords, when I use them, it seems I can get them to be a sort of "cliff-hanger" and then take off from them with the appropriate major/minor chord. As for Augmented chords, I never use them. I've never studied them.

Also, diminished arpeggio's are fun.
#10
yeah, diminished chords can be very, very cool if used properly. but can also destroy a song if they're not. as for augmented chords, i never really tried write / improvise anything with them. only tried major or minor chord progressions so far. but i'm pretty sure they're not completely useless.
tension is just another part of music. if there was no tension, everything would just sound happy. and that would be crappy.
#12
Quote by Bornlivedie UK
Can you possibly get anymore clueless?


Gee, I'm sure the TS appreciates the help. Can you possibly be any more of an asshole?
#13
^ i didn't see you helping at all either, but on the contribution to start a flame war.
so what does that make you?
#14
I'll be making sure no one contributes to the insults.
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
hey d00d i herd u dont like shred u r a genius 4 thinkin dat. all shred is fukin lame wit no soul u no wat im sayin??
#15
well you could simply play arpeggios in your lead playing, and it would sound good, so why play a b5? "It sounds like sh*t" by itself doesn't it? Music is context, and also resolution, which doesn't happen without dissonance (or interesting music as I would say). But yeah some musicians would never need these chords, I rarely use augmented chords, but sometimes your ear develops to a point where major chord progressions sound a bit bland.
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#16
Aug and dim chords are needed to complete the scales in stuff. Aug is used for the seventh degree in a major scale, for example B aug would fit into a C major scale. I forget but I think dim is the seventh degree in a minor scale.
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#18
Quote by Sonicxlover
Aug and dim chords are needed to complete the scales in stuff. Aug is used for the seventh degree in a major scale, for example B aug would fit into a C major scale. I forget but I think dim is the seventh degree in a minor scale.


nay dude. major and minor scales have the same progressions, but in different degrees.
so the 7th degree of the major scale is still diminished

the 3rd degree in a harmonic minor progression, though, is an augmented chord.
#20
Generally, they're both dominant chords.

A diminished triad or 7th based on the note B, for instance, will usually want to resolve to a chord based on C. You can look at a diminished chord as the extensions of a rootless V7, V9 or V(b9).

Example: B diminished contains the notes B D F. G7 contains the notes G B D F: B diminished is like G7 without the root.

In minor, the half-diminished 7th (1 b3 b5 b7) or the diminished triad might sometimes be used as a ii in a ii-V-i. This is because the ii7 chord in a minor key is actually a half-diminished seventh if no accidentals are used. For example, in C minor, you might find D half-diminished - G7 - C minor as a ii-V-i.

Augmented chords usually behave like normal dominants: they resolve down a fifth. G+ (+ is a symbol for augmented) might resolve to C.


Augmented and fully-diminished 7th chords are also symmetrical: their chord tones are all the same interval apart from each other. This opens up a number of modulation possibilities, depending on how you interpret the chord. If you're interested in this, just ask, and I'm sure I or someone else will be able to explain it to you.

There are other uses to these chords, of course... even relatively diatonic and dissonant-free music can benefit from these chords, if used carefully, and you may come to appreciate more unusual chords like these as time goes on. Keep an open mind
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#21
Quote by bigz6006
They sound like shit, what are they exactly?


O_o??? dissonance pwns nub and if used properly it sounds great.
Last edited by Lumberjackted11 at Sep 7, 2008,
#23
To make music.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#25
Quote by psychodelia
Generally, they're both dominant chords.

A diminished triad or 7th based on the note B, for instance, will usually want to resolve to a chord based on C. You can look at a diminished chord as the extensions of a rootless V7, V9 or V(b9).

Example: B diminished contains the notes B D F. G7 contains the notes G B D F: B diminished is like G7 without the root.

In minor, the half-diminished 7th (1 b3 b5 b7) or the diminished triad might sometimes be used as a ii in a ii-V-i. This is because the ii7 chord in a minor key is actually a half-diminished seventh if no accidentals are used. For example, in C minor, you might find D half-diminished - G7 - C minor as a ii-V-i.

Augmented chords usually behave like normal dominants: they resolve down a fifth. G+ (+ is a symbol for augmented) might resolve to C.


Augmented and fully-diminished 7th chords are also symmetrical: their chord tones are all the same interval apart from each other. This opens up a number of modulation possibilities, depending on how you interpret the chord. If you're interested in this, just ask, and I'm sure I or someone else will be able to explain it to you.

There are other uses to these chords, of course... even relatively diatonic and dissonant-free music can benefit from these chords, if used carefully, and you may come to appreciate more unusual chords like these as time goes on. Keep an open mind
I was about to come in and say exactly this... I'm sure no one believes me. +1 psych.
#26
so, Is Augmented a chord that goes: root, third, devil's interval ?

And diminished goes: root, minor third, flat 5th?, or is that half-diminished ?

is the major and minor independant of whether it's augemented or diminished, and just a matter of the scale.

I have to say the only time I've really seen them is when it's supposed to sound evil, eg: don't talk to strangers by dio , snakebite by alice cooper. They don't really feature in the music I listen to (hard rock) I don't think.
Last edited by jimRH7 at Sep 9, 2008,
#27
Quote by jimRH7
so, Is Augmented a chord that goes: root, third, devil's interval ?

R 3 #5

And diminished goes: root, minor third, flat 5th?, or is that half-diminished ?

Yes, but that's a diminished triad. Half diminished would be R b3 b5 b7
#28
Quote by jimRH7
so, Is Augmented a chord that goes: root, third, devil's interval ?

And diminished goes: root, minor third, flat 5th?, or is that half-diminished ?

is the major and minor independant of whether it's augemented or diminished, and just a matter of the scale.

I have to say the only time I've really seen them is when it's supposed to sound evil, eg: don't talk to strangers by dio , snakebite by alice cooper. They don't really feature in the music I listen to (hard rock) I don't think.

The devils interval is a tritone. 3 whole tones or half an octave.
a b5 is the devils interval.
#29
is that flat 7th, as in three semitones below the root, or two semitones below the root? You'll have to excuse my lack of technical lingo, i've never studied music theory formally in classes or anything.

edit: branny, right enough aye, My mistake.
Last edited by jimRH7 at Sep 9, 2008,
#31
Quote by jimRH7
is that flat 7th, as in three semitones below the root, or two semitones below the root? You'll have to excuse my lack of technical lingo, i've never studied music theory formally in classes or anything.

Me neither, I learnt most of it here. A b7 is two semitones (tone) below the root. In the US they call a tone a whole step and a semitone a half step. So you'll probably see these two phrases being used interchangeably.
#32
so, (this kind of confuses me) in EG: C7, you've got C, E, G, and then Bb. Where does the Bb come from? sorry if this is a little off topic...
#34
Quote by branny1982
a C7 consists of root, major 3rd, perfect 5th and minor 7th. (r 3 5 b7)

therefore the B from the C major scale is flattened to give the b7


Is there any theory behind why it's taken from the minor scale? My guessing would be so it fits the minor pentatonic (/blues) scale better, Or to get it to fit the mixidylian (is that what it's called? the one that's a major scale with a minor 7th) but that seems to me to be like, making escuses for it rather than explaining why it's there.
#39
Quote by bigz6006
They sound like shit, what are they exactly?


well, there is no 'point' as such... they exist because that's what happens when you stack those intervals.. it's not like some guy who liked ugly music sat down and 'invented' a triad just to upset you

in Western music they're traditionally used as passing chords... usually the result of taking a 'nice' sounding chord... something that you'd like, like a nice major chord... and chromatically altering one of the notes... i.e. raise the 5th of a major chord... you have an augmented chord... lower the root of a minor chord, you have an augmented chord.... lower the 5th of a minor chord, you have a diminished chord... they're used to connect diatonic chords i.e. C, C+, Am...

in pop/rock music , you don't usually hammer out big series' of diminished chords one after the other... you use them to create harmonic tension and direction...

they may sound 'like shit' one after the other, but y'know... doing a poop isn't always pleasant until the relief you get after it plops out... (just putting it into some kind of context you could relate to )
out of here
#40
Quote by RCalisto
nay dude. major and minor scales have the same progressions, but in different degrees.
so the 7th degree of the major scale is still diminished

the 3rd degree in a harmonic minor progression, though, is an augmented chord.


Oh right, how could I forget? Mah-mee-mee-mah-mah-mee-dim.
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Kensai, I think I'll get a flamboyant sig.

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Kensai, I think I'll get a flamboyant sig.

Quote by Sonicxlover
Kensai, I think I'll get a flamboyant sig.


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