#1
UPDATE READ BELOW

Hi Ultimate Guitar,

I bought my first electric guitar and began playing last December. As I hadn't played guitar before, I decided to invest in the Epiphone Les Paul Special II and Fender Frontman 15G amp rather than spending a crazy amount

I'm now ready to buy something more advanced. I find myself playing for several hours everyday. I'm self taught, and because of this only know a very limited amount about guitars and barely any of the technical language involved!

I really enjoy playing Canon Rock, Im alright (as played by Jerry C), Eric Johnsons Cliffs of Dover, Satriani, Steve Vai, Buckethead (soothsayer, binge and grab!) and many other things. Of course these songs vary in how good they sound on my guitar, songs like Cliffs of Dover don't sound right at all, but others like Canon Rock sound reasonable

I want to spend around £500 on a guitar, and in my personal opinion it appears that Ibanez Guitars will satisfy my needs the best. I am looking at the JS1000 in particular, which I see going for around £500 used on ebay. I have also watched many videos of people playing covers on youtube using this guitar and it sounds extremely good

The questions I'd like to ask are:

1)
What are the best ~£500 guitars available?
2) Are other Ibanez guitars a better buy? Is the JS1000's price higher than usual because it is a signature model?
3) How much better will these guitars sound in comparison to my Epiphone Les Paul Special II?
4) Will my Frontman 15G amp do a £500 guitar justice or should I look at getting a better one?
5) What alternatives are there to using amps? Can I use my Computers speakers for sound output using some type of hardware?
6) I'd really like to invest in an effects pedal and experiment with Delay, Wah-Wah, Artificial harmonics (from what I know by using guitar pro, this is where a note is played an octave higher... and so I assume a particular effects pedal is used for that!) I have NO idea what effects pedals I should be looking at, any suggestions or advice here will be greatly appreciated

I think that this is about it, I really hope you can help me out with some ideas

Thanks

Schmutz!

UPDATE: I have purchased the VOX AD100VT for £185 and the JS1000 for £580 used off ebay. Amp arrived quickly guitar will arrive later next week. Really look forward to using the guitar with the new amp. My current guitar already sounds far better
Last edited by SchmutzGH at Sep 16, 2008,
#2
3. they will make your epiphone sound like crap.
4. no, i would suggest maybe going a bit cheap on the guitar so you can buy both a better guitar and a better amp
<Raven> I got so baked last night
<Raven> that I WOKE UP high o_o
<Raven> Do you have any idea how euphoric that is?
<Raven> I felt like I was being born.
#3
1) See "4)"
2) See "4)"
3) See "4)"
4) You need a new amp
5) Yes, but first, See "4)"
6) See "4)"


¦ Epiphone Sheraton II ¦ GFS Mean 90s ¦ Ampeg J-20 ¦
¦ Fulltone OCD ¦ MXR 6-Band EQ ¦ Behringer Chorus ¦ Artec Analog Delay ¦ EHX Holy Grail ¦
#4
Quote by JMcG92
1) See "4)"
2) See "4)"
3) See "4)"
4) You need a new amp
5) Yes, but first, See "4)"
6) See "4)"

Yeah that pretty much sums it up. The guitar probably sounded good online because people had much better amps than you, no offense.
#5
k... i'm up for this questions

1- not sure about this one
2- probably an RG or an S series
3- WAY BETTER, LP special II is one of the lower end epiphone guitars
4- in this case, upgrading both amp and guitar will be better, you don't need to spend it all on the guitar
5- yes, guitar rig or ampli tube, maybe a multi fx pedal (digitech or line 6) and plug it into some speakers
6- nope, you don't need a pedal to do natural or artificial harmonics, look on youtube for lessons on those techniques
#6
try getting a better amp first
then look at getting a better guitar
Quote by SOADrox429
Dude... I want to date a drum major. I bet they could fuck in time to Tool.
#7
New amp.
The JS signatures will be more expensive, because Ibanez has to pay Joe every time they sell one.
An effects pedal does not make harmonics, the player does. Google it or search it on here or on youtube
Now officially has too much gear to list

PM me if you want to know about my recording setup
#8
Ok, maybe an Ibanez S470BK and a Roland Cube 60. There, a good, versatile, Ibanez guitar and a good amp chock full of effects. Exactly what you requested, for a modest price of £484 (that includes shipping!).


¦ Epiphone Sheraton II ¦ GFS Mean 90s ¦ Ampeg J-20 ¦
¦ Fulltone OCD ¦ MXR 6-Band EQ ¦ Behringer Chorus ¦ Artec Analog Delay ¦ EHX Holy Grail ¦
Last edited by JMcG92 at Sep 7, 2008,
#9
yeah the s470 is about the best you can get for your money. the ZR bridge is top notch and the body of the guitar is super thin and light. you can get all the tone you need from the three pickups
<Raven> I got so baked last night
<Raven> that I WOKE UP high o_o
<Raven> Do you have any idea how euphoric that is?
<Raven> I felt like I was being born.
#10
guys, I am overwhelmed with the responses. Didn't expect so many so fast! haha!

It's actually refreshing to read how "bad" my current gear is... since it means that I'll really be able to appreciate the benefits of whatever I decide to upgrade to. I'll be selling the old Guitar/Amp also, so I'll generate another £100 there.

Thanks for the suggestions (Ibanez S470BK/Roland Cube 60) I'll be looking at these straight away, and perhaps I'll be able to try them out in a local music store. I am prepared to go for used items and get something better though. If it mean't going a little over my budget, I'd consider getting the JS1000 and the amp mentioned (Roland Cube 60).

Like Cerveza mentioned though, if the JS1000 doesn't offer much more quality than the S470BK (for example) and is expensive just because it's a signature model, then I'm not so interested and would sooner put the difference into a great amp, or even effects gear!

Please keep the responses rolling, they are extremely useful

Thanks all,
#11
The S470BK looks like a better guitar on paper too if you ask me, HSH + ZR Tremolo + Mahogany Body = Tonal Bliss


¦ Epiphone Sheraton II ¦ GFS Mean 90s ¦ Ampeg J-20 ¦
¦ Fulltone OCD ¦ MXR 6-Band EQ ¦ Behringer Chorus ¦ Artec Analog Delay ¦ EHX Holy Grail ¦
#12
thanks. I'm looking on ebay, and see "S470" models selling for around £309 new. Is there a difference between S470 and S470BK? (does BK stand for "black?)

Also, if you don't mind explaining, what are HSH/ZR Tremolo features? I really don't know much at all about the technical language used
#13
HSH is the pick up configuration
Bridge-Humbucker
Middle-Single coil
Neck-Humbucker

ZR Tremolo is the tremolo system a.k.a. bridge with a whammy bar
It's supposed to be one of the better tremolo systems out there too.
Never tried one tho.
#14
I'm looking at a Fender American Standard Stratocaster, on dolphinmusic it's £699.99;

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop/flypage/product_id/34693

Suggests that I'll be able to get it within my budget on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fender-American-Stratocaster_W0QQitemZ330268148746QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item330268148746&_trkparms=72%3A984%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

heres one, but there is some time left on it yet, and the price is sure to inflate a lot. This seller also has just 8 feedback (and so I wouldn't be covered for much if the sale is a scam)

I want to know though, are both the Same Guitar?

heres another one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AMERICAN-FENDER-STRATOCASTER_W0QQitemZ110287701786QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110287701786&_trkparms=72%3A984%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Are there replica/cheap versions of the Fender American Standard Stratocaster that I should know about? Anything I should look out for?

Thanks for any help, I'm just trying to learn some basics before I make a commitment!

EDIT: I'd also like to ask, what is the difference between S470 and S470DX? look here: http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop/flypage/product_id/24792

It is £170 more than the S470 I've been looking at (£499 compared with £329...) Is it JUST made from better materials, or does it sound better too?
Last edited by SchmutzGH at Sep 9, 2008,
#15
I've just purchased the VOX AD100VT for £185 (rrp is ~£300) and the JS1000 for £580 used off ebay amp arrived quickly guitar will arrive later next week. Really look forward to using the guitar with the new amp. My current guitar already sounds far better.

What do you guys think of the JS1000 and AD100VT in terms of versatility? I want to play everything from Canon rock, to Buckethead, to Cliffs of Dover!

Also, whats gonna be the bottleneck? The amp, or the guitar? (...the player?!!! - haha)
#16
Wow, I started with same guitar, but a Fender bass amp. I now have a '65 Deluxe, and am saving up for a '57 Strat reissue.
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."
#17
whats that money amount in USD?

Either way, for an amp, a roland cube 30 or 60w, or a used line 6 flextone.

guitar im not so sure, but amp first, then guitar.
Quote by Bloodavian
Its not about the Radio its about talent, the front man has a bigger vocal range than Micheal Jackson and he can sing from heavey metal to high pitched ...No.12 on the top 20 under rated guitarists of ALL TIME...etc

1-Bloodavian 0-Forkman.

^Fail^
#18
Quote by SchmutzGH
Also, whats gonna be the bottleneck? The amp, or the guitar? (...the player?!!! - haha)
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the amp.

Not that there is anything wrong with the Roland cube series; for the money they'e very good, and in your first couple of years of playing it's uncommon for someone to need much more (very few people start needing full gig-quality amp rigs until they've been playing a few more years).

However in general, I think there is a much bigger difference between a cheaper amp and a really top-quality pro amp, than there is between a cheaper guitar and a top-quality pro guitar.
And since your amp defines more of your tone than the guitar does, no matter what guitar you use and no matter how good you play, the amp will always limit you to it's tone; for example, if the amp has no bass response, no matter how good you are at playing, you're not going to be able to get any bass out of it. Similarly if the amp has a tiny weak speaker that breaks up the second you turn the volume past 10%, then again, no amazing custom shop guitar is going to fix that.


I would suggest that where you are now, you've made a smart choice - a decent practise amp and a medium, good quality guitar that should last you a fair while. I would expect the guitar to last you until you start playing shows (at which point I'd advise maybe some small upgrades to keep it on top gigging form), and the amp should last you forever as a decent practise amp, though you will need to get another one for gigs when the time comes. All-in-all, a smart buy.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#19
Quote by MrFlibble
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the amp.

Not that there is anything wrong with the Roland cube series; for the money they'e very good, and in your first couple of years of playing it's uncommon for someone to need much more (very few people start needing full gig-quality amp rigs until they've been playing a few more years).

However in general, I think there is a much bigger difference between a cheaper amp and a really top-quality pro amp, than there is between a cheaper guitar and a top-quality pro guitar.
And since your amp defines more of your tone than the guitar does, no matter what guitar you use and no matter how good you play, the amp will always limit you to it's tone; for example, if the amp has no bass response, no matter how good you are at playing, you're not going to be able to get any bass out of it. Similarly if the amp has a tiny weak speaker that breaks up the second you turn the volume past 10%, then again, no amazing custom shop guitar is going to fix that.


I would suggest that where you are now, you've made a smart choice - a decent practise amp and a medium, good quality guitar that should last you a fair while. I would expect the guitar to last you until you start playing shows (at which point I'd advise maybe some small upgrades to keep it on top gigging form), and the amp should last you forever as a decent practise amp, though you will need to get another one for gigs when the time comes. All-in-all, a smart buy.


Thanks. A lot of good points there. Still, I expect the JS1000 to leave my Epiphone Les Paul special II trailing in the dust

BTW, I have the VOX AD100VT, not Roland Cube 60. In terms of technical specs that I can grasp, it looks like the better amp. My biggest concern is that a lot of reviews mention how good it is at metal, which I must admit I don't play as much as other genres. Using my les paul special II shows it offers a LOT of versatility though, so I'm not that worried
#20
the vox really dosnt do high gain well and the cube is better suited for metal. but the vox is still a great amp and for bedroom playing u should be fine
My Gear:
Jackson DK2M
PRS Paul Allender Sig
Epiphone SG Special
Fender Blues Jr.
Roland Micro Cube
#21
i wouldnt sell the epiphone, hold on to it, because its your first guitar and in case you need a backup it may come in handy.

You could probably mod it too
Quote by Bloodavian
Its not about the Radio its about talent, the front man has a bigger vocal range than Micheal Jackson and he can sing from heavey metal to high pitched ...No.12 on the top 20 under rated guitarists of ALL TIME...etc

1-Bloodavian 0-Forkman.

^Fail^
#22
Quote by JMcG92
Ok, maybe an Ibanez S470BK and a Roland Cube 60. There, a good, versatile, Ibanez guitar and a good amp chock full of effects. Exactly what you requested, for a modest price of £484 (that includes shipping!).


Or a Peavy Vypyr 60 when they come out!

x2 on the don't sell your old guitar either, with a new amp it will sound better.
Kit:

Tanglewood TW28STR
PRS Soapbar SE II
Epiphone LP100

Roland Cube 30x (New!)
#23
If you have £500 to spend you can solve both problems with a bit of clever thinking.

At the level you're at you sound like you're not going to be playing a lot of gigs and mainly be bedroom-rocking, so i'd suggest going for a Roland Cube 30. I use one for practicing, they have a good punch and include on-board effects so you can cut some corners (for a while!) and not worry about having to get some pedals to make your sound beefier.

This should cost you about £120 - £150, leaving you £350 for a guitar. You may not be willing to sell your old guitar, but if you want to it could bring the total back up to nearer £500 possibly, but eitherway i'd heavily suggest going to a second-hand guitar shops. Unlike Cars, Guitars don't suffer from mileage if they've been looked after - but you can pick up some great guitars for cheaper prices instead of going for a brand new indonesian plank of wood with no soul.
Ug's Stupidest Member of the Year - 2005
#24
keep an eye on ebay, my brother got a s470 for £130 I was well jealous
My Beginner setup:
Ibanez rg321mh
Roland Micro cube
#25
The trouble is with Ebay you can't try before you buy. A guitar is like a pet.. you dont just look online and point, you've got to go and see for yourself and choose the nicest dog at the shelter, or whatever!

A picture online is no good, it could be one of those that barks all the time and dosent shut up and bites your sideboard when you're out of the house.

... ****ing dogs.
Ug's Stupidest Member of the Year - 2005
#26
lol well as long as you go and try it first you cant lose, i mean it saved him like £200 so a bit of money on petrol to try it wasnt exactly a big deal.
My Beginner setup:
Ibanez rg321mh
Roland Micro cube
#27
1) What are the best ~£500 guitars available? really depends on personal preference. if you're looking at something with a locking trem, though, you need to make sure the trem isn't crappy- at £500, some guitars will have good trems (e.g. ibanez rg1570), and some won't. you need to be careful.
2) Are other Ibanez guitars a better buy? Is the JS1000's price higher than usual because it is a signature model?- basically, yes. it's a good guitar, just expensive for what it is.
3) How much better will these guitars sound in comparison to my Epiphone Les Paul Special II? quite a bit, but it'll be very dependent on your amp.
4) Will my Frontman 15G amp do a £500 guitar justice or should I look at getting a better one?- better amp.
5) What alternatives are there to using amps? Can I use my Computers speakers for sound output using some type of hardware?- i'm not too well up on this, to be honest.
6) I'd really like to invest in an effects pedal and experiment with Delay, Wah-Wah, Artificial harmonics (from what I know by using guitar pro, this is where a note is played an octave higher... and so I assume a particular effects pedal is used for that!) I have NO idea what effects pedals I should be looking at, any suggestions or advice here will be greatly appreciated. - artificial harmonics are done with your picking hand, it's not an effect. if you get a cube, as deeg suggested, it will have some fx built in.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#28
1) The one that you like best. It's a personal choice, you need to try some and make a decision.
2) Guitars are more than the sum of their parts, so an itemized list of parts don't tell the whole story. As a rule most signature guitars cost more because of the name.
3) How tall is really tall? This is art not math so beauty is in the ear of the beholder.
4) You will probably want to upgrade your amp.
5) Well there are headphone amps and amp simulations that work on PC's, but they generally don't sound as good as the real thing.
6) Most people looking at multieffects units use the Boss GT-8 and GT-10 or the Line 6 Pod products. I would start there. But seriously, you need to try them yourself first.
#29
keep your epiphone.
GET A GOOD TUBE AMP
Gear:
2000 Paul Reed Smith CE-24
ESP EC-1000 w/ Seymour Duncans
Ceriatone 18 Watt TMB Plexi 1x12
Peavey 5150 2x12 Combo
#30
thanks for the continued responses, they are helpful . I have bought the JS1000 and vox ad100vt amp for £765 ($1370) I feel it is a good deal since brand new it would have cost between 40%-50% more. From the reviews and specifications that I have looked at, it seems this setup will offer a lot of versatility - which is just what I want

I've updated my original post with this information
Last edited by SchmutzGH at Sep 16, 2008,
#31
that sounds like a good deal.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#32
Quote by Dave_Mc
that sounds like a good deal.


thanks, thats what I want to hear, haha

I couldn't find the guitar cheaper than £560 (+£20p&p) anywhere. The second lowest prices were always between £600-£700. Although, I know that they have gone for cheaper on ebay before

Oh, artificial harmonics... I have been watching youtube videos and know about them now They are difficult to execute consistently on my Epiphone Les paul Special II, but sometimes it works really well. I'm wondering if the JS1000 will be easier to control as far as playing harmonics and even things like vibrato is concerned? What do you think?
Last edited by SchmutzGH at Sep 16, 2008,