#1
title says it all i have an example(correct me if i'm wrong)

smell's like teen spirit is in the key of A flat and uses the notes: B flat,A flat,D flat,E flat,C,F,G. how do i take this and figure out what scale he based it off of?
Last edited by nath1142 at Sep 9, 2008,
#2
ssmells like teen spirit is in the key F minor actually


and what ever key a song is in is what scale you use... so youd use the F minor scale
#3
wait fminor is Aflats relative minor scale but the both have the same flats?? so do you just have to know the notes to know if your using the major key of it's relative minor?
Last edited by nath1142 at Sep 9, 2008,
#7
Quote by nath1142
wait fminor is Aflats relative minor scale but the both have the same flats?? so do you just have to know the notes to know if your using the major key of it's relative minor?

If a song is in a minor key it will often have a sharp 7th as an accidental, which gives ut the classic minor sound. eg, F minor will have an E natural as an accidental even though there's an Eb in the key signature.
#8
Quote by Swap-Meet
Smells like teen spirit is in F Aeolian

learn the circle of 5ths, and read the music sticky, it'll be easier for you to be able to tell what song is in what key


Isn't Aeolian the same as minor?
#9
Quote by HeavyMetaldude
Isn't Aeolian the same as minor?

I don't think this guy was right because it definitely isn't modal.

Basically, as far as i know, Aeolian means that the music is modal, whereas minor would mean it's diatonic. Modal music usually has a very basic chord progression, consting of maybe two chords. It also, can't have any accidentals, so if it's in F Aeolian it has to stick to that.

Smells like teen spirit doesn't fit either of those categories so it definitely isn't modal, so it is in F minor (not F Aeolian).
#10
Quote by 12345abcd3


Smells like teen spirit doesn't fit either of those categories so it definitely isn't modal, so it is in F minor (not F Aeolian).


this, its F minor, end of story.
#11
o.0 i gots it now i was thinking f sharp in my head but f minor makes sense thanks guys
#13
^no. Its in F minor, not F aeolian. aeolian is not a key, ionian is not a key. thats modal business.
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#14
F Aeolian = F, G, Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F
F minor = F, G, Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F

I just read something on Wikipedia saying that referring to the two as the same is not correct. What's the difference? Is this like referring to a Db as such when it should be a C# or something?
#15
Quote by HeavyMetaldude
Isn't Aeolian the same as minor?

yh it is
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#16
Quote by JHogg11
F Aeolian = F, G, Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F
F minor = F, G, Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F

I just read something on Wikipedia saying that referring to the two as the same is not correct. What's the difference? Is this like referring to a Db as such when it should be a C# or something?

F Aeolian is a mode and it has the same notes as the minor scale.

but minor usually corresponds to a key. so it is more correct to call it F Aeolian
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#17
It's in the key of F Minor.

It makes use of the F natural minor scale, but also incorporates some Phrygian and blues stuff in the part after the chorus, the "hey' part. Thus, the song is not modal and should not be described as using the F Aeolian scale.

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#18
Quote by Conca
F Aeolian is a mode and it has the same notes as the minor scale.

but minor usually corresponds to a key. so it is more correct to call it F Aeolian


that article is kind of misleading. Aeolian and natural minor are the same in sound, formula, and function.

My college text explains this way:

"The aeolian mode exists as the natural minor scale. Whether you refer to it as aeolian or natural minor is of no consequence". (it says the same about Ionian vs the Major scale)
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Last edited by GuitarMunky at Sep 12, 2008,
#19
Quote by sue
It makes use of the F natural minor scale, but also incorporates some Phrygian and blues stuff in the part after the chorus, the "hey' part. Thus, the song is not modal and should not be described as using the F Aeolian scale.
So why is it ok to say it uses Phrygian?
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#20
Quote by Ænimus Prime
So why is it ok to say it uses Phrygian?
There's no other way to describe it.

The best way to describe the song is that it is the key of F Minor, primarily using the F natural minor scale, but using chromatic tones borrowed from the parallel Phrygian scale during two interludes.
#21
Quote by bangoodcharlote
There's no other way to describe it.

The best way to describe the song is that it is the key of F Minor, primarily using the F natural minor scale, but using chromatic tones borrowed from the parallel Phrygian scale during two interludes.


^ I agree that F minor (and F phrygian for that 1 part) is the closest thing in music theory that we could use to describe it. Keep in mind Kurt Cobain likely knew little if any theory, and was probably thinking about the chords and how they sounded more so than following the keys of the traditional Major/minor system. But yeah, if we are going to use the traditional system to describe it F minor (F phrygian) is closer than anything else.

btw to those that said its "in F aeolian"...... you can just say F minor. That would be more consistent with common practice. Modal terms are more useful in describing things other than Major and natural minor since Ionian and Aeolian exist as those scales anyway. in other words calling something Ionian or Aeolian is an unnecessary redundancy. ( although it might make you feel really advanced to use those terms)
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Last edited by GuitarMunky at Sep 12, 2008,
#22
Quote by GuitarMunky
Kurt Cobain likely knew little if any theory, and was probably thinking about the chords and how they sounded more so than following the keys of the traditional Major/minor system.
Yet he still ended up with a fairly simple song from a theory standpoint.
#23
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Yet he still ended up with a fairly simple song from a theory standpoint.


yeah so? I'm failing to see the relevance of that point.

Hopefully you read my entire statement and realized that it was agreeing with you and just adding the point that the artist (Kirk Cobain) likely found those riffs by ear, and not through theory knowledge. Why is that relevant? because it explains why the riff doesnt follow a tradition minor chord progression. Notice there is no actual F minor chord. He plays a power chord and sometimes hits the 3rd string making it a sus which you would rarely or never find in a traditional F minor piece of music.

Knowing he likely didn't know theory gives us a better perspective with which to understand his music.
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Last edited by GuitarMunky at Sep 12, 2008,
#24
Quote by GuitarMunky
yeah so? I'm failing to see the relevance of that point.
It is quite common for noobs to come into MT and make inane comments like, "I don't want to learn theory. It will mess up my creativity and ability to break the rules." This is a stupid way of thinking, of course, and Cobain's lack of theory knowledge, but also lack of doing anything way outside the bounds of normal music shows why.

For the record, I like Nirvana.
#25
Quote by bangoodcharlote
It is quite common for noobs to come into MT and make inane comments like, "I don't want to learn theory. It will mess up my creativity and ability to break the rules." This is a stupid way of thinking, of course, and Cobain's lack of theory knowledge, but also lack of doing anything way outside the bounds of normal music shows why.

For the record, I like Nirvana.


read my edit as to why the lack of theory IS relevant to analyzing that piece. It has nothing to do with whether "'learning theory is good" or "bad", but rather gives us a perspective with which to better understand where he was coming from.

Your knocking him on his lack of theory, yet the guy created a phenomenon that still has influence today. That should tell you something. Not that theory is bad, but that great music can be, and often is created by people that haven't studied it in depth.

You shouldn't be threatened by this fact, but instead should embrace it, just as much as you do any knowledge, theoretical or otherwise. It all lends to a greater understanding of how artists create music.
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Last edited by GuitarMunky at Sep 12, 2008,
#26
I know this is n00b but when you say that something is modal, what exactly do you mean? I understand what modes are and why they are used but I just don't understand why you would say that F minor shouldn't be called F aeolian. Isn't this just one type of mode and couldn't any solo be referred to as modal?