#1
Descend lower baby into the old straws,
esoteric yet meaningless.
Do we examine Grenada
behind a cognisant Jeep-
Yeah?

It's hard to find purpose
on the perpetual foliage
and the dry Almonds.
The transfigured beagle
soars upon the unbroken ocean.

And only in minds dream
do we observe the Maipurean vision;
a duality no nearer than a grope
within the realms and the constellation.

Movement without space
time without motion,
dancing around the alter. (cf. indigenous Arabian Drums)

Uncertainly I wait for grace
outside the distorted kingdom
'till the wind carries me no further.
Last edited by Bleed Away at Sep 10, 2008,
#4
phew, Fred i've got to tell you man; i keep a thesaurus right beside me while reading your pieces, just in case. you've got an astoundingly vast vocabulary; which is far from a bad thing. but i think it sometimes deters the reader into trying harder to get a full understanding of the piece, opposed to actually getting the enjoyment out of just being able to read the piece.
and this is really all i have to offer man, as far as any revision(if any) would be taken.
i loved the way you split this up into stanzas; i don't think it would've had the same effect if it hadn't been. the last two stanzas were nothing but pure win, imo.
i will say too, that once again i am surprised by the lack of comments thus far.
and, as always, thank you for the words on my pieces man.
There's a road that leads to the end of all suffering. You should take it.


- Jericho Caine


secret, aaaaagent maaan.
secret, aaaaagent maaan.
#5
I was going to comment, but then i thought it was just rude to bump it to say ' I'm BAMBOOZLED', lol.

I had to look up what 'Maipurean' and i still didn't get it after I did.

I like a lot some of the indivudal lines (like 'perpetual foliage') but I can't make them fit into a choseive whole.
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#7
do you always write with such complex vocab?
the parts that i could decipher and understand were very strong. i thought that the ending was more effective than the opening. i felt that it flowed more efficiently and the imagery was really quite good.
i have no idea how to suggest improvement. it works well as it stands now, even if i couldn't understand everything
good work buddy.
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#8
Well,

I'll just go ahead and say I didn't really enjoy it.

For me, this is one of those pieces where your vocabulary just eats the piece alive. Beyond that, I can dismiss the seemingly random and incoherent images of a jeep with thought and a flying dog, if this is all a dream of some sort. But I don't even know if it is. As it stands, this feels like it talks in circles around itself without ever actually tapping into anything remotely concrete. It doesn't really feel like it accomplishes anything, or establish well enough that you are painting a dream for me to say, "ok cool" and just enjoy the scenery.
#9
I really love figuring out words, but not by reuturning to the Thesaurus, the birthplace of my core of interesting (good) vocabulary. I love determining what they're connatation is, but this doesn't lend itself to that at all.
Why use such odd words when other more discernible and pretty words could be employed? I'm not trying to be cruel or ignorant, I just dislike pieces that have such obscure terms that are beyond compehension without the aid of a bloody book.

- "It's hard to find purpose
on the perpetual foliage
and the dry Almonds.
The transfigured beagle
soars upon the unbroken ocean." - This was the only section that I could even remotely relate to.

When I first read this, I said, wtf, even after repeated reads! I'm not a uneducated person, I have been reading and writing for some time now, but this was beyond my reasononing and understanding.

Digitally Clean
#10
Well, like, I got something out of it. But because it was pretty obtuse, I'm not sure whether it was the meaning you meant or not. In fact, if I were to guess, I'd say I'm probably wrong. But here's what I thought it was about.

It reminded me of a theory from the documentary on theoretical physics "What the Bleep do we know?" which stated that the indigenous Americans literally would not have been able to see the approaching conquistadors' ships on the horizon because the visual lobe of their brains would've outright rejected the concept of a vessel traveling on the ocean. I don't remember the justification for this rather shaky-sounding claim, but it was in there.

I took your poem to have to do with applying this theory as a metaphor for confronting the unknown. In your poem's case, the Caribbean. I dunno, it's hard for me to quote specific lines to tell you where I'm getting this because when I go back to look at them again their significance becomes once again obtuse and I start to doubt myself. But the reference to the Beagle seemed to play into it clearly with the evolutionary implication. And I dunno it just all seemed to be about the impenetrability of the other. I thought it was cool and very good to read. I just wish I were a little surer of my reading.

Sorry this isn't a very good critique. But I found it enjoyable to read and interpret but hard to speak on.
#11
Evan, You're right about the evolutionary aspect of the poem and about how civilization of indigenous Carib has been unknown to us just as ours is to them. With this concept in mind the whole piece is build around the philosophy of dualism and the theory that came from Darwin's "The voyage of the beagle." This piece also makes reference to idolatry, a common practice at the time. This might set you off in the right direction when reread again.
Thank you for reading.

Zach, the Jeep makes reference to modern times, each paragraph subsequently moves backwards in time line, it's a metaphor for slavery, dictatorship or even conquest. But thank you for the crit, man.

Thank you everyone, any question just ask.
#12
I'm going to nitpick the piece and then tell you what I think in general at the end.

Descend lower baby into the old straws,
esoteric yet meaningless.
Do we examine Grenada
behind a cognisant Jeep-
Yeah?
The first line is unreadable to me, because of the lack of punctuation. Esoteric and meaningless are not opposites or even contradicting in any way, so the use of "yet" perplexes me. I think the last few lines are a bit too much mockery and I found it hard to take the meaning behind it seriously. I didn't like this opening at all.

It's hard to find purpose
on the perpetual foliage
and the dry Almonds.
The transfigured beagle
soars upon the unbroken ocean.
Purpose is usually found IN things, rather than ON them, so although the imagery was quite pleasant I was still a bit withdrawn. I do get the beagle reference now, but it's far too obscure to be put in only 2 lines in my opinion.

And only in minds dream
do we observe the Maipurean vision;
a duality no nearer than a grope
within the realms and the constellation.
I did have to go search for Maipurean and yet I still don't get how a sub-language can be presented as a vision. The last two lines here are the most confusing. I can't figure out how a grope can be nearer to duality in any way, shape or form. Even if it's within realms or a constellation.

Movement without space
time without motion,
dancing around the alter. (cf. indigenous Arabian Drums)
This was very different to the rest of the piece. It wasn't obscure, and although a bit cliché, it was still in the mood of the piece.

Uncertainly I wait for grace
outside the distorted kingdom
'till the wind carries me no further.
I liked the ending more than anything else, but I think it was a bit too late to introduce a character into this piece, especially when the rest of it is so surreal and void of any emotion.

I think that you laid a lot of weight on the title. Too much. It's as if it was suppose to make it ok for you to use out-of-this-world phrasing and images, just because you threw the word "dream" in there. I do understand that it is possible to get the underlined meaning, and I think Evan managed to salvage something from it, but I still think that this is a piece that needs to be developed much further if you truly want it to connect with readers. You may say it's not your intention, but the last stanza tells me you still want some understanding from the reader, and it's a shame you didn't weave throughout the piece the emotion you managed to create in those last few lines.
This is not a pipe
#14
The only was I could possibly make sense of this would be to think of it as describing a dream (perhaps the title implies that but I took it in the other sense), as it carries the same abstract ideas and seemingly jumps from one thing to the next. In that sense, sure, things like transfigured beagles soaring over water do sound alright. The only problem is, as others have said, the extensive vocabulary used just works to ruin whatever great imagery you might have been setting up.

I could be biased though, I've always been one for simplicity.
On the eight day we spoke back...

let there be sound.
#15
Although the name of this piece includes the word "Dream", you shouldn't use that sense ideologically to solve this piece; the name of the title and the content of this piece aren't mutually compatible-so no, not much weight was put onto that title, at least not as much as it might seem. The title was used simply as a sketch for the piece, like most of my other pieces. The whole content of the piece shifted the more and more I pondered more about it. Don't read this in pieces read this as a whole; the idea is split into different fundamentals and point of views but all and all everything is concluded with a question: "where do i lye?"
Last edited by Bleed Away at Sep 14, 2008,
#16
I agree with Carmel on the first line punctuation, the weight you put on the title and the in not on. Though I get that you could be finding purpose for something else on those things, it's not made clear enough. The whole feeling of this was absolutely wonderful, no matter what my little gripes are. Unfortunately, I got nothing from this but a feeling, so where your word choice etc. fitted perfectly with the idea of the title, it didn't hit me or tell me anything other than "yepsssssss.... I'm dreamy!"
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#17
regardless of your intentions I felt so alienated by the first two stanzas that I decided it wouldn't be worth my time to read on. I'm all for experimentation and convoluted meaning but this was too much, even for me.
#19
Seems quite... realistic to be honest.
Personally not my thing.
But I liked the over all reverse and proper buildup.
The ending was the star stanza here.
All I can say is good job, even though the first two were a tad dissapointing for me.
7/10
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#20
I think this is supposed to be sort of mixed images of a dream no one can really interprete. The wording was stunning and sometimes it was really too much but I like how every word seemed handpicked.

Probably I misinterpreted it but I liked reading it, even though sometimes I felt dumb.
#21
okay. i'll give my thought process over reading.

nice opening line. i'm not sure of the mix of formalism ("descend") with colloquialism ("baby") is entirely appropriate. strikes me immediately as odd - i'm questioning what the fuck kind of narrator uses an unnecessarily vast vocabulary yet still conforms to arguably the most predictable loving address known to man. but the oddity isn't a bad thing, it gets me interested.

as carmel mentioned, "esoteric" (specific secretive knowledge) and "meaningless" (of no real purpose) aren't diametrically opposed or in any sense mutually exclusive, so "yet" feels wrong. unless you had some other intention (i can't grasp such) i'd recommend revising that. not only does it sound wrong in itself, but it makes the reader question you as a writer - your inability to recognise the correct connective here suggests that your flourishing vocabulary is fraudulent in some sense.

anyway, so you're laying down with your lover in straw behind a jeep, examining the grenada. nice scene at the end of the first stanza.

second stanza opens "it's hard to find purpose on the perpetual foilage" - that's semantically ambiguous. as someone pointed out earlier (i think carmel again), you find purpose "in" something, not "on" something, unless you mean that you're searching for purpose whilst you are, literally, standing on a leaf, which may be the case. either way, i liked perpetual foilage, and the ambiguity. it kind of suggests both are correct, which works. anyway, the beagle soars upon the "unbroken ocean". love that imagery.

i think the whole piece is in that third stanza, really. so i'll break it down. "only in minds dream" - don't really like that. flows awkwardly and is pretty unimaginative. maipurean? had to look that up if i'm honest. so only in your minds dream do you "observe" (not sure that's the perfect word here) the vision of the maipureans. i don't see why these people want "a duality".

the end is all very nice. fourth stanza has some nice imagery and the conclusion is nice. i just couldn't grasp the highly important third stanza, and i don't think it's entirely my fault. even after reading your explanations, i don't see exactly what your point is.

all i'm left with is a nice bit of imagery concerning you and your girlfriend in grenada dancing with the natives and watching beagles upon the ocean. oh, and you're confused as to the nature of the universe, or something. not to put that down. if it was JUST that, i'd be more than satisfied, but the whole poem seems to be frustratingly concerned with some kind of "greater meaning" that i (and nobody else it seems) appears able to grasp adequately.

and that's my two cents.
#22
Quote by Bleed Away
Descend lower baby into the old straws,
esoteric yet meaningless.
Do we examine Grenada
behind a cognisant Jeep-
Yeah?

It's hard to find purpose
on the perpetual foliage
and the dry Almonds.
The transfigured beagle
soars upon the unbroken ocean.

And only in minds dream
do we observe the Maipurean vision;
a duality no nearer than a grope
within the realms and the constellation.

Movement without space
time without motion,
dancing around the alter. (cf. indigenous Arabian Drums)

Uncertainly I wait for grace
outside the distorted kingdom
'till the wind carries me no further.


I want to quote this here so I can read it over and over again. Flow dies a shameful death, replaced by flood. The ocean rhymes with naught, but it belongs in its place - not because the earth is lower there, not because something must wash up on the beaches, but because you placed it there with grace.

We'll examine Grenada, Iraq, Siberia, and Kosovo behind prototype Wrangler wheels and never feel anything until the planes are dancing with buildings, threatening the Friday night bar scene. Within realms and constellation, the southern version of us revels within shadows and beauty, guiltless and destroyed. May the wind carry you as far as you wish.