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#1
being legalized for personal use never seems to come up in any political debates? meanwhile some jackass who just drank a beer on his lunch break can fire someone for a dirty because he likes to smoke a j after work.

is being open about wanting to legalize marijuana just simply a political land mine that kills any chance of people voting for you?

All i know is there is a huge portion of Americans who smoke bud and the consequences for doing so are ridiculous.
I once hit a man in Dearborn. Michigan. A hit and run. I hit him and just kept on goin. I don't know if he's alive or dead. But I'm sorry. Not a day goes by i don't see his face.
#2
Yes it is screwed up, but there is not much you can do about it. Find a job that doesn't drug test.
#5
i dont know exactly how the american elections go (im canadian) but dont they recieve assloads of money through sponsors with huge corporations, i dont think abig name corporations want to be seen endorsing someone who endorses marijuana. so that could be a reason, even though the public is okay with it. but i could be wrong
#6
It really isn't that big of a deal. No one wants to talk about it seriously, but it's legitimately a LAME debate topic. To support it is to support the use of drugs, to not support it is to be a prudish arsehole.. you lose either way, be it with credible politicians, or be it with the youth vote.

Whatever. Honestly, would it make that much of a difference in your life?

Hey guys! I just started playing electric guitar should I get a Gabson Lay Pall or a Femdor Startokaster. I like the picks on the gabsons but i like how sweet femdors look. Beforre i get a gabson what company makes them?
#7
Of course. There's nothing more important to talk about than habitual weed smoking.
#9
i would say that 65 to 70 of americans are actually against people who are pro-legalization.
you may be thinking "how are people this stupid and irrational?" keep in mind that church still holds major sway in more or less everything and that nixon, reagan, and bush jr. all got elected for two terms.

to stay on the positive side, the only number of people that have ever truly caused social change has been between 5-10 percent. so cheer up emo kid
dont take any guff from these bastards man

Quote by Fenderhippie69
I only smoke when I've been drinking and I only drink when I've been smoking.
#10
It does bother me immensely... It seems that the only thing that ever comes up is whether it should be 'upgraded' or 'downgraded' to a higher or lower level of illegality. I think there have been those who have suggested full legalization or decriminalization but they have either been to insignificant to make a difference or have been shot down shortly afterwards. This probably doesn't apply to all places though... I know it was a big issue in New Zealand for a while (and they chose to legalize ) and Australia still has the debate from time to time but in Britain and the US it seems that there is some great conspiracy against marijuana legalization.

And yes the consequences if you get caught are absolutely ridiculous. In Britain it is almost impossible to get a job if you have a conviction for Cannabis possession and I don't think things are much better in the US.
I know a guy who was kicked out of Sixth Form because he got arrested for possession actually... Hes basically a bum now... Its ****ing terrible.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#11
it is so far from a lame debate topic. it is about citizens rights, and choosing to make choices for oneself. and it acts as a huge wall keeping down a very defined group of people in the country in which people smoke more than another group.

aftrerall marijuana is quite harmless unless youre preforming surgery or something
I once hit a man in Dearborn. Michigan. A hit and run. I hit him and just kept on goin. I don't know if he's alive or dead. But I'm sorry. Not a day goes by i don't see his face.
#13
It does bother me, to an extent. I am speaking as someone who does not use 'pot' but someone who thinks that the legalization of it would probably have a positive effect on the amount of people in our overcrowded prisons. Use of marijuana is not such a big deal compared with other things considered illegal in the US, and the prison systems could certainly use some space to house the more serious offenders.

Like the years of prohibition, trying to banish the consumption of alcohol(or in this case, the green stuff) really just makes the problem worse. People are going to do it anyway, just in a sneaky manner. Legalizing it along with providing education on its effects would give power to the people(how it should be) to make up their own minds on what to do. We just have to hope these guys act responsibly and not hurt any one else!
Honorary member of the Kansas Guitarists group
Player of Ibanez RG
#14
Right now it's more like a test for some jobs. Yea it's harmless but when employees fire you for smoking the stuff it's probably becuase they want someone who is reliable and won't call one day saying "Yo I got arrested, bbl in a couple months lol"

It doesn't bother me though. I don't use drugs for recreational purposes.
#15
Quote by metaldud536
Right now it's more like a test for some jobs. Yea it's harmless but when employees fire you for smoking the stuff it's probably becuase they want someone who is reliable and won't call one day saying "Yo I got arrested, bbl in a couple months lol"

It doesn't bother me though. I don't use drugs for recreational purposes.


Believe it or not, weed isn't the only thing you can be arrested for. People who drink are just as likely to get arrested.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#16
Well, what's the legal age of purchase for marijuana?

...Wait, what's that? There isn't one? So... wait, what you're saying is it's illegal to purchase marijuana no matter how old you are?

But hold on a second... I can go down to Wal-Mart and buy a 30-pack of beer if I'm 21, and it's perfectly legal? My god - AMAZING!

Do you remember an era of history involving prohibition? That means for a while, the sale, purchase, and consumption of alcohol was prohibited under consequence of law. Bad! But hold on a second; alcohol was banned under prohibition, yet we can legally purchase it?

That, my friend, is because somewhere down the line, a few spokesmen for the country ruled that alcohol couldn't be entirely bad (in moderation, of course), thus - BAM - no more ban on alcohol. Legal alcohol for folks of age! Amazing, eh?

Now, I'm no historian, but I'm pretty sure laws have been getting tossed around, created, put into (and out of) effect for quite some time. However, in all the hundreds of years that we've been making laws, taking laws out of commission, whatever... marijuana hasn't been made legal. No legality. No prohibition or ban. No being brought back into effect. Just straight illegal. Is this for a reason? Maybe. Maybe not. Fact is, it's illegal, and that's why the boss who likes to drink habitually can fire the pothead.

And even so, why should marijuana-supporters care? It's illegal and you do it, so you obviously don't care if it's illegal or not - you're going to do it regardless. You know the consequences if you get caught under the influence or in possession of your plant, and you do it anyway. And when you DO get caught, or fired from your job, or thrown into jail, you think you have the right to sit around and complain about it? Way to go! No wonder you use it.
#17
Corporations can't make money of pot, corporations control government, government makes pot illegal.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#18
In the first place, the reasons for it being illegal are quite heinous. Secondly, it isn't that big of an issue to a politician really because they have so much more to worry about than a recreational activity people like to be involved in. The issue of marijuana being illegal really is not something that needs to be debated. There is nothing to debate.
#19
Quote by IDread
Believe it or not, weed isn't the only thing you can be arrested for. People who drink are just as likely to get arrested.

But your employers won't care if you drink becuase it's not illegal, unless you're underage.
#20
Some say it is illegal because corporations won't be able to profit off of it cause people can grow it on their own. There is no way that is legit. You can grow your own tobacco too, but I've never heard of someone with their own tobacco plant.

If anything, I think it would help rejuvenate the economy. Think about it, our country's initial main source of income was through tobacco. If marijuana was legalized, think about the cash flow that would bring in. I think it is ridiculous that this isn't the most common argument against it being illegal.
#21
Quote by metaldud536
But your employers won't care if you drink becuase it's not illegal, unless you're underage.


If you're drunk on the job, they care.
#22
I love when threads like this open. The butt-raping and fapping vanishes and lots of intelligent people show up. Life is good!

I think it's crap that it's illegal, I personally don't like smoking. Have tried it once, didn't see the big deal with it. Just another rediculous law
"My jedi powers are far more superior than yours"
#24
Quote by rabbittroopsux


is being open about wanting to legalize marijuana just simply a political land mine that kills any chance of people voting for you?


I think you hit the head on the nail right there buddy


smoke weed every day mo ****as!
#25
Quote by playonwords
If you're drunk on the job, they care.



and for most jobs you probably should be fired for being drunk on the job. and same for being high on the job; but certainly not high when you go home.

that being said any job that isnt too involved can be done high much more easily than being drunk.
I once hit a man in Dearborn. Michigan. A hit and run. I hit him and just kept on goin. I don't know if he's alive or dead. But I'm sorry. Not a day goes by i don't see his face.
#26
Quote by RabbidWolf
I love when threads like this open. The butt-raping and fapping vanishes and lots of intelligent people show up. Life is good!

I think it's crap that it's illegal, I personally don't like smoking. Have tried it once, didn't see the big deal with it. Just another rediculous law

It's true; pot is actually much less toxic than any cigs or any other form of tobacco, since they don't have tons and tons of crap (ammonia, paraffin, arsenic, etc) in them, just the dried leaves.
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#27
Quote by l0vemetal
Well, what's the legal age of purchase for marijuana?

...Wait, what's that? There isn't one? So... wait, what you're saying is it's illegal to purchase marijuana no matter how old you are?

But hold on a second... I can go down to Wal-Mart and buy a 30-pack of beer if I'm 21, and it's perfectly legal? My god - AMAZING!

Do you remember an era of history involving prohibition? That means for a while, the sale, purchase, and consumption of alcohol was prohibited under consequence of law. Bad! But hold on a second; alcohol was banned under prohibition, yet we can legally purchase it?

That, my friend, is because somewhere down the line, a few spokesmen for the country ruled that alcohol couldn't be entirely bad (in moderation, of course), thus - BAM - no more ban on alcohol. Legal alcohol for folks of age! Amazing, eh?

Now, I'm no historian, but I'm pretty sure laws have been getting tossed around, created, put into (and out of) effect for quite some time. However, in all the hundreds of years that we've been making laws, taking laws out of commission, whatever... marijuana hasn't been made legal. No legality. No prohibition or ban. No being brought back into effect. Just straight illegal. Is this for a reason? Maybe. Maybe not. Fact is, it's illegal, and that's why the boss who likes to drink habitually can fire the pothead.

And even so, why should marijuana-supporters care? It's illegal and you do it, so you obviously don't care if it's illegal or not - you're going to do it regardless. You know the consequences if you get caught under the influence or in possession of your plant, and you do it anyway. And when you DO get caught, or fired from your job, or thrown into jail, you think you have the right to sit around and complain about it? Way to go! No wonder you use it.


Well that argument was incoherent... You seem to go from supporting legalization (or at least opposing prohibition of it) to being anti-legalization in less than a page...

Since its the only one where you make a point, I will address your last paragraph.

We care because we feel it is our human right to smoke it and it is illogical and hypocritical to keep it illegal. If you look at the constitutions of most countries of the world and many of its organizations (like the UN or the EU) or in fact the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, it will no doubt include something to the effect of "a person is entitled to an unrestricted private life, provided it causes harm to no one but themselves". It probably won't be worded exactly like that but it will be there. Now marijuana certainly falls into that category. Freedom to practice religion is also protected and many religions and spiritual groups use marijuana (the ones that immediately spring to mind are Hinduism, some denominations of Buddhism, and of course Rastafari). Freedom to medical treatment is usually there too and marijuana has many medical uses. It is, for example, the most effective cure for the eye disease, glaucoma and can significantly reduce the likelihood of asthma attacks. It has also been used to stimulate the appetite of anorexics and AIDs patients and is used as an effective painkiller by many people who would otherwise live a life not worth living.

Now the hypocrisy part... Alcohol and Tobacco combined kill more people than the holocaust every year in America alone. Marijuana has never killed anyone. Tobacco is without doubt, very addictive and it is incredibly easy to develop alcohol dependence. Marijuana is not addictive and it is very hard to develop a dependence on it. Tobacco practically destroys the lungs of a user. Marijuana, while also causing some damage to the lungs, does significantly less and is also good for the heart. Alcohol destroys the brain to an even greater extent than Marijuana and is consumed in much greater quantities. It can also cause violent or dangerous behavior whereas the effects of marijuana are usually limited to feelings of euphoria, hunger and well-being.

Tell me then, why it is a criminal offense to smoke herb when it is perfectly legal to drink beer and smoke tobacco?
And why should I, a devout Rastafarian, be sacked from my job or kicked out of school for practicing my religion?
And why should a man who relies on marijuana to live his life without constant agony suffer that same fate?
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
Last edited by IDread at Sep 13, 2008,
#28
Quote by rhcpjhlz
Some say it is illegal because corporations won't be able to profit off of it cause people can grow it on their own. There is no way that is legit. You can grow your own tobacco too, but I've never heard of someone with their own tobacco plant.

If anything, I think it would help rejuvenate the economy. Think about it, our country's initial main source of income was through tobacco. If marijuana was legalized, think about the cash flow that would bring in. I think it is ridiculous that this isn't the most common argument against it being illegal.



thats true, if it was mass produced by the government not only would it lower the price considerably it would also make it a lot easier to get, therefore eliminating the need for people to spend all the time and hard work it takes to grow an MJ plant.
Quote by Marshmelllow
graphs. graphs always work. my old work place had an awesome printer, so i was constantly making graphs.

that was until i made a graph of how much my boss pissed me off. but seriously dude, graphs.
#30
Quote by metaldud536
Have you considered therapy?



I don't live in constant pain as I clearly stated, the man in the part you quoted was purely hypothetical.... Some people do however live that sort of life and for many, marijuana is the only way for them to maintain a level of normality in their lives.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
Last edited by IDread at Sep 13, 2008,
#31
Quote by IDread


I don't live in constant pain as I clearly stated... Some people do however and for many, marijuana is the only way for them to maintain a level of normality in their lives.

If it's prescribed, yea.
#32
Quote by metaldud536
If it's prescribed, yea.


In Britain you can no longer be prescribed medical marijuana and I think the same is true of most states in the US.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#33
Quote by l0vemetal
...Wait, what's that? There isn't one? So... wait, what you're saying is it's illegal to purchase marijuana no matter how old you are?

But hold on a second... I can go down to Wal-Mart and buy a 30-pack of beer if I'm 21, and it's perfectly legal? My god - AMAZING!

Do you remember an era of history involving prohibition? That means for a while, the sale, purchase, and consumption of alcohol was prohibited under consequence of law. Bad! But hold on a second; alcohol was banned under prohibition, yet we can legally purchase it?

While a valid point, keep in mind that the majority of people over 21 who still smoke grass (for non-religious or medical or creativity purposes) are the ones who have already thrown their lives away and aren't going places. I've seriously only met like three people (my uncle counts as one ) over the age of 21 who smoke weed and aren't completely douchebag bums. Weed is something that most people grow out of during high school/college, so having a minimum legal age doesn't serve much purpose. I myself pretty much stopped smoking my sophomore year in high school, because it gets so boring and same-y after a while. And along those lines, if someone wants to smoke weed in high school or college, there's no reason that should ruin the rest of their lives, just for experimenting with something. I have a friend, who despite being one of the smartest, funniest people I've known, won't ever get a good job because he got caught with weed at school in 8th grade. That's one of the most depressing things I've ever experienced.

EDIT: for clarity, i'm completely pro-legalization, as i'm completely for basic human rights, this argument is just why having a legal weed age is stupid.
Last edited by bananaboy at Sep 13, 2008,
#34
Quote by IDread
In Britain you can no longer be prescribed medical marijuana and I think the same is true of most states in the US.

Well that's tough. I'm sure there are alternatives.
#35
Quote by l0vemetal
Well, what's the legal age of purchase for marijuana?

...Wait, what's that? There isn't one? So... wait, what you're saying is it's illegal to purchase marijuana no matter how old you are?

But hold on a second... I can go down to Wal-Mart and buy a 30-pack of beer if I'm 21, and it's perfectly legal? My god - AMAZING!

Do you remember an era of history involving prohibition? That means for a while, the sale, purchase, and consumption of alcohol was prohibited under consequence of law. Bad! But hold on a second; alcohol was banned under prohibition, yet we can legally purchase it?

That, my friend, is because somewhere down the line, a few spokesmen for the country ruled that alcohol couldn't be entirely bad (in moderation, of course), thus - BAM - no more ban on alcohol. Legal alcohol for folks of age! Amazing, eh?

Now, I'm no historian, but I'm pretty sure laws have been getting tossed around, created, put into (and out of) effect for quite some time. However, in all the hundreds of years that we've been making laws, taking laws out of commission, whatever... marijuana hasn't been made legal. No legality. No prohibition or ban. No being brought back into effect. Just straight illegal. Is this for a reason? Maybe. Maybe not. Fact is, it's illegal, and that's why the boss who likes to drink habitually can fire the pothead.

And even so, why should marijuana-supporters care? It's illegal and you do it, so you obviously don't care if it's illegal or not - you're going to do it regardless. You know the consequences if you get caught under the influence or in possession of your plant, and you do it anyway. And when you DO get caught, or fired from your job, or thrown into jail, you think you have the right to sit around and complain about it? Way to go! No wonder you use it.

That is the most retarded logic I've ever seen.

You're completely missing the point here. Yes, we KNOW why the boss can LEGALLY fire the weed user, but the question is why it's right for that to be possible.

Your argument seems to be "it's illegal and you still do it knowing that it's illegal, so you deserve everything you get and you have no right to complain". Would you still be thinking this if it was a law that, for example, if you ever have a baby you have to smash its head with a rock? Would you think people who refuse to do this deserve everything they get, just because they know it's illegal? Do you think the government is that infallible?

Guess what - the government aren't gods, they're people. They make mistakes. And they aren't there as gods that we have to be loyal to, laws aren't there to test our loyalty - they're there to protect us. So when a law as stupid as the marijuana prohibition law takes innocent people and locks them up for having the wrong kind of plant in their backyard, giving them jail sentences longer than some rapists and murderers get (for example, that guy who recently killed a baby over a video game got 21 years, and that kid who sold weed to hs friends got 70), you seriously think that even though the law is incredibly stupid and unjust, it's right that we be punished just because we knew we were breaking it?

Laws do not dictate what is right and wrong. It should be what is right and wrong dictating what laws we have. And prisons are NOT there to punish anyone who dares defy the government's rule. They're there to punish people who do harmful things to other people and to society. And no, you can't say "urgh the government's made lots of laws so we can trust them to always be right" like you seemed to say at the beginning there. The government WILL make mistakes, and the people and future governments WILL have to try and fix them.
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
Last edited by whalepudding at Sep 13, 2008,
#36
Quote by bananaboy
While a valid point, keep in mind that the majority of people over 21 who still smoke grass are the ones who have already thrown their lives away and aren't going places. I've seriously only met like three people (my uncle counts as one ) over the age of 21 who smoke weed and aren't completely douchebag bums. Weed is something that most people grow out of during high school/college, so having a minimum legal age doesn't serve much purpose. I myself pretty much stopped smoking my sophomore year in high school, because it gets so boring and same-y after a while.


To be honest I find your view that most people over 21 who still smoke weed are bums to be slightly offensive. I might not be over 21 but I still know many people who smoke herb who are WAY over 21 and who live lives to be envied and I have no doubt that I will still be toking after my 21st. The people you seem to be talking about are those also involved with harder drugs as well as weed.

Quote by metaldud536
Well that's tough. I'm sure there are alternatives.


Actually there isn't. There are prescription painkillers but these invariably have side effects which cause people to be less effective in their day to day lives.

Quote by whalepudding
That is the most retarded logic I've ever seen.


Thats what I was getting at.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
Last edited by IDread at Sep 13, 2008,
#37
Quote by rabbittroopsux
being legalized for personal use never seems to come up in any political debates? meanwhile some jackass who just drank a beer on his lunch break can fire someone for a dirty because he likes to smoke a j after work.

is being open about wanting to legalize marijuana just simply a political land mine that kills any chance of people voting for you?

All i know is there is a huge portion of Americans who smoke bud and the consequences for doing so are ridiculous.

Strangely enough, most semi-respectable places of business don't want lawbreakers working for them.
Quote by Jackal58
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#38
Quote by IDread


I don't live in constant pain as I clearly stated, the man in the part you quoted was purely hypothetical.... Some people do however live that sort of life and for many, marijuana is the only way for them to maintain a level of normality in their lives.


You know damn well that's a crock. There are many, many ways to improve your life that do not involve mind-altering substances. I doubt there is any one who is so weak that their only option is resulting to drugs. If there is, I do not feel the least bit sorry for them. They can most certainly get off their lazy, incompetent arses and actually take an initiative to change their lifestyle. I have nothing against the drug, but when people think they have to depend on it is when it starts to piss me off. You don't need it. Not in the slightest.

Edit: If you are talking about prescription marijuana as a painkiller, there are plenty of NSAIDs that do not have any adverse effects at all. I don't see what's wrong with those.
SAVE THE JAZZ

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People who finish things, and"
#39
Quote by IDread
To be honest I find your view that most people over 21 who still smoke weed are bums to be slightly offensive. I might not be over 21 but I still know many people who smoke herb who are WAY over 21 and who live lives to be envied and I have no doubt that I will still be toking after my 21st. The people you seem to be talking about are those also involved with harder drugs as well as weed.

Yeah, I realized how poorly I worded that post shortly after submitting it, and if you'll notice I edited it drastically. I have the utmost respect for people who actually have a reason for smoking, but as you said, in my experience, the people I know who over 21 who toke it up are the sort of people involved with other stuff (coke, pills, and lots and lots of alcohol), you know, the bad sorts of people who still hang around high school parties, sell crap, think Matthew McCaughnahy in Dazed and Confused. But those are my experiences, I'm from a town of about 70,000 in eastern North Carolina, so I see a lot of those people.

But yeah, my apologies, from your posts in this thread, you seem like a really intelligent guy, and I'm sorry I accidentally insulted you.
#40
Quote by ledhead67
You know damn well that's a crock. There are many, many ways to improve your life that do not involve mind-altering substances. I doubt there is any one who is so weak that their only option is resulting to drugs. If there is, I do not feel the least bit sorry for them. They can most certainly get off their lazy, incompetent arses and actually take an initiative to change their lifestyle. I have nothing against the drug, but when people think they have to depend on it is when it starts to piss me off. You don't need it. Not in the slightest.

Edit: If you are talking about prescription marijuana as a painkiller, there are plenty of NSAIDs that do not have any adverse effects at all. I don't see what's wrong with those.


Have you ever talked to anyone who does rely on it for pain relief? All of them would much rather smoke a joint a day than have to spend the whole day remembering what pills they have to take next then feeling drowsy because the painkillers are too strong. Trust me when I say that those that do rely on it have tried all the alternatives.

Quote by bananaboy
Yeah, I realized how poorly I worded that post shortly after submitting it, and if you'll notice I edited it drastically. I have the utmost respect for people who actually have a reason for smoking, but as you said, in my experience, the people I know who over 21 who toke it up are the sort of people involved with other stuff (coke, pills, and lots and lots of alcohol), you know, the bad sorts of people who still hang around high school parties, sell crap, think Matthew McCaughnahy in Dazed and Confused. But those are my experiences, I'm from a town of about 70,000 in eastern North Carolina, so I see a lot of those people.


No real offense taken and from your edited version I can see more clearly what you are talking about.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
Last edited by IDread at Sep 13, 2008,