#3
Good stuff. He also does videos on each of the modes individually

Edit: A lot of the Musician Talk regulars would say that some of what he says is wrong
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
Last edited by Ænimus Prime at Sep 15, 2008,
#4
Quote by Ænimus Prime
Good stuff. He also does videos on each of the modes individually

Edit: A lot of the Musician Talk regulars would say that some of what he says is wrong


guthrie? or weiner ?
shred is gaudy music
#5
Quote by Ænimus Prime
A lot of the Musician Talk regulars would say that some of what he says is wrong
Then it probably is wrong, but simplified so the viewer gets a practical understanding of the theory.

In MT, you should be able to ask a question and learn the practical AND the theoretical answer.
#6
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Then it probably is wrong


yeah, cause you guys know soooo much more than Guthrie Govan & Dave Weiner.
shred is gaudy music
#7
Quote by GuitarMunky
yeah, cause you guys know soooo much more than Guthrie Govan & Dave Weiner.
All I know is that you don't throw a beginner into the fire. I have a younger sister and we both took Spanish in high school. She would often request my help with how to write something, and I would know how to say it correctly, but according to what she had learned, my correct sentence would not satisfy the requirements of her assignment.

Edit: Another example is in math. You first learn that you can't take the square root of a negative number. As you progress in math, you learn than i=root(-1) and that becomes an important aspect of electrical engineering.

More math? Did you know how to solve 7+3x=x^(7/5) when you first learned algebra? No. You were taught that powers were integers, but the you learn how to evaluate equations like that. At that point, you're taught that a power must be a rational number, but then here comes big bad calculus which teaches you how to raise a number or variable to an irrational power.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Sep 15, 2008,
#8
Quote by bangoodcharlote
All I know is that you don't throw a beginner into the fire. I have a younger sister and we both took Spanish in high school. She would often request my help with how to write something, and I would know how to say it correctly, but according to what she had learned, my correct sentence would not satisfy the requirements of her assignment.


I guess you must know more than her teacher to.

but seriously im sure there are cases like that, but to just assume that Guthrie Govan and/or Dave Weiner are wrong, because they say something that conflicts with you or Archeo is really pretty arrogant. I'm not saying that they can't be wrong, but there is a good chance that they just might know something you don't. They are both pretty amazing players, especially Govan. I'll take his advice over any UG regular any day.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Sep 15, 2008,
#9
Quote by GuitarMunky
I guess you must know more than her teacher to.
Her teacher wasn't teaching her correct Spanish.

Quote by GuitarMunky
but seriously im sure there are cases like that, but to just assume that Guthrie Govan and/or are wrong, because they say something that conflicts with you or Archeo is really pretty arrogant.
I have no doubt that they understand theory as well and likely much better than either of us, but they likely do simplify ideas and teach somewhat incorrect information, which may work in practice, but the actual theory behind it is wrong.
#10
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Her teacher wasn't teaching her correct Spanish.

I have no doubt that they understand theory as well and likely much better than either of us, but they likely do simplify ideas and teach somewhat incorrect information, which may work in practice, but the actual theory behind it is wrong.


give a specific example from one of those videos....... that I could agree or disagree to. As stated you just sound arrogant to me.
shred is gaudy music
#11
Quote by GuitarMunky
give a specific example from one of those videos....... that I could agree or disagree to.
I'm at school and have a strict limit on what I can download; Youtube videos kill me, so I can't watch them.
#12
GuitarMunky, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's starting to seem like you just want to start fights. Bangoodcharlote may seem arrogant, but that doesn't make her wrong, and I think most MT regulars (other then yourself) would say that she gives helpful advice most if not all of the time.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#13
Quote by The_Sophist
GuitarMunky, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's starting to seem like you just want to start fights. Bangoodcharlote may seem arrogant, but that doesn't make her wrong, and I think most MT regulars (other then yourself) would say that she gives helpful advice most if not all of the time.


Please, guitarmunky is one of the most helpful and polite people on this forum.

But seriously, it gets a little annoying when people nit pick at little trivial details. really who gives a shit as long as you're playing the same thing and getting the same sound.


thats basically my take on it.


im no super musician but it gets annoying when someone who can't play or compose well believes they're some music theory master. not pointing anyone out in particular
#14
That's exactly why I posted. These arguments get in the way of people actually learning, and this is the second argument I've seen these two in.

I apologize GuitarMunky, I shouldn't have singled you out.

Please people, just let it be.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#15
Quote by ouchies
Please, guitarmunky is one of the most helpful and polite people on this forum.
Munky knows what he is talking about theory wise. Our disputes aren't over theory, they're over discipline and rigor in practice.

I even say it on my "wall." (But don't post on it!)
#16
Quote by GuitarMunky
yeah, cause you guys know soooo much more than Guthrie Govan & Dave Weiner.


I do actually remember him, in one of those videos, playing over a chord progression in C major and, moving his hand up to a new position, claiming to now be playing A minor.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#17
What I don't like is that everyone begins explaining modes by saying "they are scales from the major scale, but start in a different note/degree"...
I think before saying that (or maybe latter, but nodoby does) explain modal music and how to use modes to achieve it, etc...
Cause most of the times, just learning modes by what they say doesn't mean you are going to play modally (like playing G mixolidian over Fmaj-Gmaj-Cmaj), etc...
#18
Quote by gonzaw
What I don't like is that everyone begins explaining modes by saying "they are scales from the major scale, but start in a different note/degree"...
I think before saying that (or maybe latter, but nodoby does) explain modal music and how to use modes to achieve it, etc...
Cause most of the times, just learning modes by what they say doesn't mean you are going to play modally (like playing G mixolidian over Fmaj-Gmaj-Cmaj), etc...
You can learn how to use modes once you understand them.

You wouldn't expect someone to apply the blues scale before they know what it is, would you?
#19
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You can learn how to use modes once you understand them.

You wouldn't expect someone to apply the blues scale before they know what it is, would you?


But that "how to use them" part would be the same as "understanding them"...
Cause nearly every lesson here and on the internet has the same structure which doesn't explain anything about modal music but only about how modes are found from major scales...
I woulnd't mind them explaining it afterwards, but almost nobody does...
#20
Quote by GuitarMunky
yeah, cause you guys know soooo much more than Guthrie Govan & Dave Weiner.
Dude, normally I read your posts and nod, but you took that out of context.

Anyway, I figured this was gonna be yet another repost of the (great regardless) Satriani video and it's nice to see something else up for once. It's advertised as an Introduction to modes and explains them sufficiently on a rudimentary level. No problems with it as far as I'm concerned.
#21
I think that's the biggest problem with videos like this - they're usually assuming a certain degree of background knowledge of the subject . Let's face it, if you're seeking out a video on modes then it's not unreasonable for the creator of said video to assume that you already have a grasp of basic musical theory.

If you already know the basics then arguably it's okay to dumb things down a bit for simplicity's sake - if Guthrie Govan tells me "I'm now playing A minor" when he technically means "I'm now playing what you'll recognise as the typical A minor scale shape at the 5th fret" then I know enough to fill in the gaps. If someone is new to theory and doesn't have the necessary background knowledge it's just going to confuse them though.

If I watch a video of how to drive a rally car on an ice I'd expect anybody else watching it with a view to picking up tips to at least know how to drive first.
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