#1
I've started a 3-piece thrash and Classic Heavy metal band and I'm having trouble with the drummer who says that he wants to add something of his own into the ''mix''.

He likes metal and all, but what he REALLY adores is Finger Eleven, Foo Fighters, Nirvana, A7X, Linkin Park and shit like that.

I knew beforehand that he liked this stuff but I didn't mind because he has alot of talent and he seemed to be fully willing to play this stuff when we first started out.

So far though I've written every song, and since I'm the only one who actively listens to old metal, I'm the one who has been guiding the band in that direction, so when it comes to drums, I've been introducing the drummer to drumming triplets like iron maiden and punk beats like in Exodus or Megadeth.


So now it's come to this, I'm gonna have a talk with the bass player and see what he thinks, it's just that the thing about NWOBHM and thrash is that it's incredibly brutal in the aspect that it's totally uncompromising because if you add elements that come from stuff like ''Hell Yeah'' ''Mudvayne'' and Foo Fighters

You **** up the dynamic of the genre's groove

we sound like Venom, Tankard, Raven, Motorhead, Angel Witch, etc etc
#2
you called foo fighters shit. shame on you. if youre only planning on a cover band then sure, get him to play as close to the original songs as he can. but if you plan on any original material, dont block out his influences
#3
Quote by soBLINKad
you called foo fighters shit. shame on you. if youre only planning on a cover band then sure, get him to play as close to the original songs as he can. but if you plan on any original material, dont block out his influences

Well now it's come down to the point where I can fire him

because I know of another drummer who has more experience and more skill AND likes what the bassist and I like.

Thing is though, despite wanting to play drums with more ''feel'' he still finds this band to be going somewhere and has grown attached to it.

I'd feel terrible for firing him


EDIT: I didn't mean shit in the offensive way, There's nothing WRONG with the foo fighters at all, it's just such a bad idea to combine that with music like Toxic Holocaust

Cuz I'm there, playing a ****in FAST thrash riff, and he's playing the beat very slow like, as seen in bands like nirvana, so I always gotta tell him to speed up
Last edited by Rising at Sep 15, 2008,
#4
Quote by soBLINKad
you called foo fighters shit. shame on you. if youre only planning on a cover band then sure, get him to play as close to the original songs as he can. but if you plan on any original material, dont block out his influences


This.. Pretty much. Nothing wrong with multiple influences. Incorporate his style into yours. You'd never know, something awesome might happen
#5
You kind of screwed yourself on this. The best bands out there are bands where every player has input, and allowed to bring themself to the table. But what they also tend to share is a common vision for what they are trying to do. You have a drummer with far different influences than you. I'd say what you really have here are two choices. You either accept him as a member of your band and you give up control, part of the beauty of music is NOT always getting what you expect. Or you can find another drummer, a drummer willing to be a robot for you.

If you were in IL, i would trade you drummers, every drummer i can find is all about metal, where's i need a hard rock drummer like yours. But you know what, I just keep rolling, I don't try and over control the drummer, if I can't get what I want out of them, i move on, simple as that. But don't be burnin bridges, even your influences might change....
#6
take what you can get and be happy with it. as long as he can keep time, and add something to the band who cares? for example: me and my friend play death metal and our drummer plays led zeppelin type beats with a single pedal and such, but he keeps time and is crazy good at rolls, fills and so on and so forth.



<---- metal.
#7
Why don't you at least try it out? I mean jeez the last thing the world needs is another generic thrash metal band.
#8
Ok, listen to some callipso, then listen to some jazz
sounds pretty different eh?
Well those two very different styles are the ones who influenced ska, then raggae.
So stop being a closed mind and accept new influences in the band, who knows? Your band could be the author of a whole new style
#9
I get what you're saying, but he takes it too far

My job and the bass players job is to write music, his job is to keep the beat

and it's alright to play some slow grooves to the beginning of a riff, but then before you know it we're 4 bars into a fast thrashing riff and he's still playing as if he's stuck in molasses.
#10
Quote by Rising
I get what you're saying, but he takes it too far

My job and the bass players job is to write music, his job is to keep the beat

and it's alright to play some slow grooves to the beginning of a riff, but then before you know it we're 4 bars into a fast thrashing riff and he's still playing as if he's stuck in molasses.

As long as he's not actually slowing the song down, is it really that big of deal that he's not running 32nd notes on a double bass and playing half time on the hat and snare?
#11
Quote by Rising
I get what you're saying, but he takes it too far

My job and the bass players job is to write music, his job is to keep the beat

and it's alright to play some slow grooves to the beginning of a riff, but then before you know it we're 4 bars into a fast thrashing riff and he's still playing as if he's stuck in molasses.


So the what the drummer plays doesn't contribute to the music? Why not just get a drum machine if all you want is something to keep the beat?
#12
I'm sorry but to be honest you are being a little ignorant sounding.
As much as we joke about the stupidity and a-musicality of drummers here on the forums it's all in good fun.
Drummers are an extremely important sonic element of the sound. How a drummer feels the groove can change the mood, intensity or prowess of the whole song.
Imagine if Alex Van Halen played half-time instead of double time on Hot for teacher, would be a completely different sounding song.
Imagine Rush without Neal Peart
Imagine The Who (well old who) without Keith moon (they still kick ass, i saw them live and Zakk starkey owned mothers!)

I suggest you listen to some of his influences and see where he is coming from. My drummer and bassist both like RHCP. I dislike them on thier stuff that isn't funk. My Drummer likes some oldschool rap. Really not my thing. I like all these obscure 80s prog bands and crazy jazz groups, old late 60s garage rock/proto-metal and wild NWOBHM bands. My rhythm section doesnt listen to all the 80s thrash and Thin Lizzy that I do. So what? It adds to the diversity of the sound.

Stop thinking closeminded and understand that music is not about categorizing and filing into one style, at least music which wants to innovate isnt. You want to make a splash? you gotta shake up the bowl.
#13
I must agree with my peers above. Your being very limiting on your friend. I play in a punk/noise band, but my drummers main influence is death metal. Do I care? Hello no, because he is one hell of a drummer. If he is actually keeping the time, playing on tempo, and generally a good guy, well then stop being a controlling prick.
Eyes
Quote by woodenbandman
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#14
You're wanting the band to sound like every other band from yesteryear, this drummer guy wants to take that sound and update it ever so slightly for today's market.

I'd hear him out and try his ideas if I were you, he's probably on to something.
#15
Quote by FeiRei
I must agree with my peers above. Your being very limiting on your friend. I play in a punk/noise band, but my drummers main influence is death metal. Do I care? Hello no, because he is one hell of a drummer. If he is actually keeping the time, playing on tempo, and generally a good guy, well then stop being a controlling prick.

That's the problem; he Isn't keeping the tempo!

we wrote a song that's in triplets (yes, we don't JUST play at 10000000bpm) and so it's a terribly easy thing to play right ?

Well his drumming ego just won't allow it, he absolutely NEEDS to overcomplicate the beat to which he reaches the point where he's completely off time.


And another thing (that I see with UG quite often) is that when one or two opinions are of the same mind, it creates a domino effect of bandwagon opinions.

Try imagining it from my perspective where the aim is true metal, the target audience, hell, even the venue that has it's stage open and welcome to us is true metal (black, thrash, NWOBHM, heavy, trad, speed, power). there's nothing wrong with what he likes, it's just a horrible combination idea and the majority of you who say otherwise probably listen to one genre and not the other

because you'd need to to see what a bad mix this is.
#16
Quote by Highwaytohell
I'm sorry but to be honest you are being a little ignorant sounding.
As much as we joke about the stupidity and a-musicality of drummers here on the forums it's all in good fun.
Drummers are an extremely important sonic element of the sound. How a drummer feels the groove can change the mood, intensity or prowess of the whole song.
Imagine if Alex Van Halen played half-time instead of double time on Hot for teacher, would be a completely different sounding song.
Imagine Rush without Neal Peart
Imagine The Who (well old who) without Keith moon (they still kick ass, i saw them live and Zakk starkey owned mothers!)

I suggest you listen to some of his influences and see where he is coming from. My drummer and bassist both like RHCP. I dislike them on thier stuff that isn't funk. My Drummer likes some oldschool rap. Really not my thing. I like all these obscure 80s prog bands and crazy jazz groups, old late 60s garage rock/proto-metal and wild NWOBHM bands. My rhythm section doesnt listen to all the 80s thrash and Thin Lizzy that I do. So what? It adds to the diversity of the sound.

Stop thinking closeminded and understand that music is not about categorizing and filing into one style, at least music which wants to innovate isnt. You want to make a splash? you gotta shake up the bowl.


What if I don't want to be innovative ? or groundbreaking ? or bowl shaking ?

It's not like anyone really plays this style of music anymore since all these modern bastardizations of metal have been running absolutely rampant throughout the world, so being the only band that plays a certain way ought to be noticeable in it's own right Aye ? instead of copying every other band currently out there on the scene.

Besides, it's not as if I'm taking apart Venom's ''welcome to hell'' album and copying it. This is my interpretation of old metal the way I would've done things were I living in the 80s

Seriously I find the lot of you to be way too quick to judge, I don't find this drummer to be on the same page as me, so I'm considering that it may not have been meant to be, Surely I'll give it a try and see how it goes, but if I know him correctly (and I do) I don't think it'l turn out alright
#17
Quote by Zycho
So the what the drummer plays doesn't contribute to the music? Why not just get a drum machine if all you want is something to keep the beat?

Drum machines are expensive.
#18
Quote by mikerev
This.. Pretty much. Nothing wrong with multiple influences. Incorporate his style into yours. You'd never know, something awesome might happen

Not if you want your covers to sound right...
#19
Quote by Souls United
Not if you want your covers to sound right...

eum.... no, sorry man

I convinced the guys to refrain from covering songs and to just make originals with the sole reason being that I know if me and the bass player did a cover of ... whatever

the drummer would then ceaselessly arse us to cover Finger Eleven
#21
Quote by AwesomeDrummer
so basically, you wanna sound like every other metal/thrash/shit band out there?

have some originality.

out there ?

unless you look very deep down underground, there ARE no bands like that ''out there''

I'm sure you have no idea what kind of music I'm even really talking about, the bass player and I came together to bring Heavy metal, Thrash metal, RocknRoll and punk into one band

So **** you and your obviously very closed presumptions. We wanna play a certain way that doesn't get played anymore and I'm telling you, I have 3 drummers who want his spot, and he's NEW, so it's not as if it's a big deal at all if we fire a drummer who isn't on the same page as us.
#22
Quote by Rising
out there ?

unless you look very deep down underground, there ARE no bands like that ''out there''

I'm sure you have no idea what kind of music I'm even really talking about, the bass player and I came together to bring Heavy metal, Thrash metal, RocknRoll and punk into one band

So **** you and your obviously very closed presumptions. We wanna play a certain way that doesn't get played anymore and I'm telling you, I have 3 drummers who want his spot, and he's NEW, so it's not as if it's a big deal at all if we fire a drummer who isn't on the same page as us.

So go and fire the guy if that's what you really wanna do.
Y'see, this section is generaly people asking questions, 'What should I do?' 'How should I handle this?' that kinda stuff, so when someone's only posting to say that they are replacing their drummer because they don't like his style, people tend to assume that you're asking a question.
It's an easy mistake for us to assume that you're asking for someone elses opinion, obviously you're not, so I for one am going to apologise to you for giving you my opinion when you obviously didn't want to hear anyone elses opinion.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Sep 18, 2008,
#23
Quote by Rising
out there ?


I'm sure you have no idea what kind of music I'm even really talking about, the bass player and I came together to bring Heavy metal, Thrash metal, RocknRoll and punk into one band


So you're telling us that you and your bassist are mashing all these genres into one, and are selfish enough not to let mr. pots & pans bring in some of his alternative influences?
You say you have people lined up for hisa spot, but does he have a good time playing with you? and is he willing to learn? Because to me these things are more important for the strength of a band than talent.
Quote by guitarhero_764
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#24
Quote by ScottB.
So you're telling us that you and your bassist are mashing all these genres into one, and are selfish enough not to let mr. pots & pans bring in some of his alternative influences?
You say you have people lined up for hisa spot, but does he have a good time playing with you? and is he willing to learn? Because to me these things are more important for the strength of a band than talent.

Well it started off with the bass player and I, wrote some songs together one day and decided it'd be great to start a formal band to play these tunes live and record,

And so we looked at the drummers, we had in total 4 drummers up for the job but picked our current one because I used to jam with him a year ago and back then he was into exactly what we're into right now

See what I mean ? I picked him first because I knew him as a person the best, he's talented (he was better last year though tbh) and we both genuinely believed he was on board for this project

the bands been a peice for 4 weeks and he just came out of the blue one day and brought forth all these alternative directions that he wants us to go.

I proposed that he start a side project to play what he likes and stick with us for what we play now but he wouldnt have any of that

Incidently we're jamming tonight so we'l see how it goes down, again; I don't WANT to fire him, I'm just saying we might have to do that

So I guess my real question is if it doesn't work out musically; how should we walk away from this ?
#25
Quote by SlackerBabbath
So go and fire the guy if that's what you really wanna do.
Y'see, this section is generaly people asking questions, 'What should I do?' 'How should I handle this?' that kinda stuff, so when someone's only posting to say that they are replacing their drummer because they don't like his style, people tend to assume that you're asking a question.
It's an easy mistake for us to assume that you're asking for someone elses opinion, obviously you're not, so I for one am going to apologise to you for giving you my opinion when you obviously didn't want to hear anyone elses opinion.

Your opinion is more then welcome!

It's just the people who impose their opinions in an offensive and insulting manner that piss me off, since they don't know where I'm coming from with this

How would you like it if you wanted to start a bob dylan style folk band and the drummer used blast beats throughout the whole set ?

So yeah, how do you think it should be handled if it comes down to us leaving him ?
#26
Quote by Rising
Your opinion is more then welcome!

It's just the people who impose their opinions in an offensive and insulting manner that piss me off, since they don't know where I'm coming from with this

How would you like it if you wanted to start a bob dylan style folk band and the drummer used blast beats throughout the whole set ?

So yeah, how do you think it should be handled if it comes down to us leaving him ?


you asked a question, i answered it.

don't come on here, asking us to answer your pathetic problems if you don't want help.
i was merely trying to make you see from your drummer's perspective.

im not here to flame.
#27
Quote by Rising


How would you like it if you wanted to start a bob dylan style folk band and the drummer used blast beats throughout the whole set ?

To be honest, if I was in a folk band, I wouldn't have took on a blast beat drummer in the first place.
And to be fair, we're not talking about something as incompatible as that, but yeah, I can appreciate the position you're in and that you wish to rectify that position
Quote by Rising

So yeah, how do you think it should be handled if it comes down to us leaving him ?

How do you fire someone? As nicely as possible with as much humility as you can.
First, you all need to be telling him together, no drawing straws to pick the person who does the dirty deed or anything like that, this is about as serious a band decision as you are ever gonna make, so it's important that you are together on this and present a united front. (It also makes it less likely that he will react violently if he's outnumbered.)

Tell the guy that it's not him, it's you. It's your fault for giving him a place in a band that he clearly wasn't suited for, it's your fault for not properly auditioning the position and this entire awkward situation that you all now find yourself in is all your fault. (if it was a band decision to take him on, then obviously replace 'my fault' with 'our fault')

Now, although it sounds like it, that's not me having a go at you. That is simply the best way to fire someone. The guy is less likely to be kicking off at you and falling out with you forever, he's less likely to be going around behind your back calling you all the names under the sun and spreading nasty rumours about you.
Y'see, when you fire someone, the main reason that they would cause you problems is because they see it as a personal insult, that you're telling them that they suck as a musician, but by putting all the blame on yourself, you neatly sidestep this problem.
As a musician, your greatest asset is your reputation. Protect it.

Don't think it'll work? It already has.
In my last post, I basicaly told you to fu*k off and stop asking people's opinion if you don't actualy want other people's opinion, I insulted you, then I apologised and said it was my mistake, (blamed myself) to which you replied. ''Your opinion is more then welcome!''
See? It works like a charm.

Tell him that you're only gonna end up arguing all the time and you'd rather keep his friendship than sacrifice it just so the band can have a drummer, tell him you'd rather play with a drum machine that risk losing his friendship. (obviously don't tell him that you have other drummers lined up)
Tell him that you hope he gets another band together, one that he will be much happier in, then maybe you can both do some gigs together sometime, and also tell him that if ever you can help him out with anything, he only has to ask.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Sep 19, 2008,
#28
Let him have his influence.. thats what creates the beauty of music composition.. As long as everyone gets along and has something they particularly like about the music then it will work out.