#1
This is probably a dumb question -

If a song is in E minor, and the notes suggest that it's using the natural minor scale, would the only thing that I could improvise over it with be the same natural minor scale?

Just thinking about it from a technical standpoint makes me think yes, because of the raised 6th degree in harmonic minor, and raised 6th and 7th of melodic minor (ascending).

Can someone verify this for me, so I can keep rocking out to Hallowed be Thy Name?
#2
You have all twelve notes of the chromatic scale available. Using them tastefully is another subject entirely.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#3
^ + 1.

Just a side point, you said " because of the raised 6th degree in harmonic minor, and raised 6th and 7th of melodic minor (ascending)."

First off, unless Ive misunderstood you,, the Harmonic Minor does not have a raised 6th.

It has a raised 7th from Aeolian, and a flattened 3rd, and flattened 6th, in comparison to the Major Scale.

Im assuming it was just a typo, but Im making sure.
#4
Quote by Galvanise69
^ + 1.

Just a side point, you said " because of the raised 6th degree in harmonic minor, and raised 6th and 7th of melodic minor (ascending)."

First off, unless Ive misunderstood you,, the Harmonic Minor does not have a raised 6th.

It has a raised 7th from Aeolian, and a flattened 3rd, and flattened 6th, in comparison to the Major Scale.

Im assuming it was just a typo, but Im making sure.


That was a typo, thanks for catching it.

And I do know I have the entire chromatic scale, but seriously? I don't want a lot of tight harmonies or tone clusters, that's why I asked what I did.
#5
Quote by Archeo Avis
You have all twelve notes of the chromatic scale available. Using them tastefully is another subject entirely.

Plus quarter bends, whammying, alternate tunings etc.
But as Archeo said - you have the 12 notes. There aren't any "rules."
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Quote by steven seagull
Big deal, I bought a hamster once and they put that in a box...doesn't make it a scale.
#6
Quote by yM.Samurai
Plus quarter bends, whammying, alternate tunings etc.
But as Archeo said - you have the 12 notes. There aren't any "rules."



Tunings don't have to really do with what you can do with song. They don't radically alter anything aside from the lowest and highest pitches available.


Also, Harmonic Minor doesn't have a raised 7th. It has a double-flatted 7th.

1-2-b3-4-5-b6-bb7
#7
Quote by VIRUSDETECTED
Tunings don't have to really do with what you can do with song. They don't radically alter anything aside from the lowest and highest pitches available.


Also, Harmonic Minor doesn't have a raised 7th. It has a double-flatted 7th.

1-2-b3-4-5-b6-bb7


Natural Minor -
1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7

Harmonic Minor -
1-2-b3-4-5-b6-7

Melodic Minor (ascending) -
1-2-b3-4-5-6-7

Those are the patterns as they relate to the natural minor scale (and yes, I know that it's also called the Aeolian mode).

So where are you getting your double-flatted 7th from VIRUS?
#8
Quote by Idiosyncracy
Natural Minor -
1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7

Harmonic Minor -
1-2-b3-4-5-b6-7

Melodic Minor (ascending) -
1-2-b3-4-5-6-7

Those are the patterns as they relate to the natural minor scale (and yes, I know that it's also called the Aeolian mode).

So where are you getting your double-flatted 7th from VIRUS?


C Harmonic Minor:
C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-B-C

C Minor:
C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb-C

I sit corrected. I was told it had a bb7.

Also, sorry if I came off as an ass. The best way to learn is when you get corrected. So, I'll throw an answer out to see if it's right.
#9
Quote by VIRUSDETECTED
C Harmonic Minor:
C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-B-C

C Minor:
C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb-C

I sit corrected. I was told it had a bb7.

Also, sorry if I came off as an ass. The best way to learn is when you get corrected. So, I'll throw an answer out to see if it's right.


You didn't come off as an ass bud, you just made me panic because the pattern you gave was different from the one that we went over in my music theory class today, so I panicked for a sec
#10
I believe it is not unheard of to solo over a minor progression in any of the minor modes to spice things up. So that would be Natural Minor (Aeolian) Dorian or Phrygian. Or you might mix them all together. Just follow your ear and when it feels right it is right.
Si
#11
What are the main chords in the progression? Based in that info I could give you some ideas of what scales to use over the entire progression or alternatively, what scales can be used over the different chords that sound good together
Andy
#12
Quote by Archeo Avis
You have all twelve notes of the chromatic scale available. Using them tastefully is another subject entirely.
+1. Theres always a situation to use each and every one of the 12 notes. I wouldnt use a b4 very much though (enharmonic to a M3, but more correct)

Anway, this is how I use minor scales. I hope this helps T/S:

First off, to resolve whilst writing minor melodies, you probably should use the major seventh as it resolves really well to the root just about a semitone about it. Yes you can also resolve well by using the major second, but the major seventh works just as well and sometimes better.

If your moving from above the root to the a seventh just below the root, and you want to resolve the melody, you probably should play a major seventh (meaning harmonic minor) instead of a minor seventh. This produces a strong resolution to the root.

If you want to hit that major seventh (so you can resolve to the root) without moving from above the root (so you can move upwards in pitch, not downwards), you probably should use a Major sixth instead of a minor sixth. This is because the augmented second (same as a minor third) step the minor sixth creates with the major seventh is dissonant.

If you dont want to resolve your melody, you should use the minor seventh, as it doesnt resolve as easy.

If you want to play perfect fifth, try to use a minor sixth instead of a major sixth as the minor sixth leads better to the perfect fifth.

If you want to sound eastern, try to play that minor sixth note before or after that major seventh note. For the best effect, dont play a root note and keep that dissonance hanging.
#13
Quote by Andy_Mclaughlan
What are the main chords in the progression? Based in that info I could give you some ideas of what scales to use over the entire progression or alternatively, what scales can be used over the different chords that sound good together
Andy


Off the top of my head, I don't know the chords, but I'm essentially trying to write my own solos for Iron Maiden's "Hallowed be thy Name", that's why I asked my original question.

I'll check the chords this afternoon when I get home.
#14
Quote by Idiosyncracy
Off the top of my head, I don't know the chords, but I'm essentially trying to write my own solos for Iron Maiden's "Hallowed be thy Name", that's why I asked my original question.

I'll check the chords this afternoon when I get home.
Maiden uses a lot of minor pentatonic and blues as well as the full minor scale.

And for future reference, if you come across a B5 chord in an Em progression (or A5 in a D minor progression, or any V5 chord), try soloing over it with the E harmonic minor scale.

Quote by Idiosyncracy
Natural Minor -
1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7

Harmonic Minor -
1-2-b3-4-5-b6-7

Melodic Minor (ascending) -
1-2-b3-4-5-6-7

Those are the patterns as they relate to the natural MAJOR scale (and yes, I know that it's also called the IONIAN mode).
Post corrected.