#1
I'm singing a classical piece called Go Lovely Rose by Roger Quilter which switches from 4:4 time to 3:2 time. Does that mean it goes into double time? My instincts tell me yes but

1) I've never sung a piece where the beat moves from quarter to half note
2) both the 4/4 bar and hte following 3/2 bar use 8th and 16th notes, and at quarter note = 100 even 8ths seem extreme in double time let alone sixteenths.
#2
1. Definitely the wrong place to post this
2. Time sig doesn't affect how fast notes go by, just how many beats in a measure.. 3/2 is the same as 6/4
3. Someone move to musician's talk or something?
#3
I thought you were going to ask for the time in Japan...

Quote by hb15577
dude your not funny your an immature faggot, sig that
#4
Note values are relative to the time signature in correspondence with the bpm you are playing at. A quarter note in 4/4 and a quarter note in 4/2 don't mean the same thing. A quarter note in 4/2 is equivalent to an eighth note in 4/4, if you are playing at the same tempo.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#5
4/4 is 4 quarter notes

3/2 is 2 (3rd notes?)


so 4 quarter notes in the same time as 2 3rd notes if the tempo is the same right?
#6
Quote by ViperScale
4/4 is 4 quarter notes

3/2 is 2 (3rd notes?)


so 4 quarter notes in the same time as 2 3rd notes if the tempo is the same right?


You don't understand time signatures.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#7
Quote by GuitarKid61791
1. Definitely the wrong place to post this
2. Time sig doesn't affect how fast notes go by, just how many beats in a measure.. 3/2 is the same as 6/4
3. Someone move to musician's talk or something?


3/2 is not the same as 6/4.

3/2 is triple time- three beats in a bar. 6/4 is compound- two beats in a bar split into 3.
VENUSIAN
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Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
#8
guitarkid seems to be right, I just looked up a vid on youtube of my tune. Darkstar, you seem to be saying the opposite though...
#9
Quote by ViperScale
4/4 is 4 quarter notes

3/2 is 2 (3rd notes?)


so 4 quarter notes in the same time as 2 3rd notes if the tempo is the same right?


three half notes
#10
Quote by ViperScale
4/4 is 4 quarter notes

3/2 is 2 (3rd notes?)


so 4 quarter notes in the same time as 2 3rd notes if the tempo is the same right?


3/2 is 3 half notes. time sig doesn't affect how long notes are held for.. Its just how many beats are in one measure in the music.

I'm confused.. Why is 3/2 and 6/4 not the same? If you go into Guitar Pro and write 4 measures of music in 4/4 then you change the next measure to 3/2 all it is is putting 2 extra beats in the measure, not changing the speed of anything.
Last edited by GuitarKid61791 at Sep 18, 2008,
#11
Quote by fattyDQ
guitarkid seems to be right, I just looked up a vid on youtube of my tune. Darkstar, you seem to be saying the opposite though...


People (dumb people) will tell you that 3/2 is the same as 6/4 or 3/4 is the same as 6/8. Don't believe them. Learn rhythmic patterns and time signatures the right way. I don't know a good tutorial to link you to, but someone else will.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#12
My advice, bringing into consideration the recent posts, would be to take this to musicians talk, where at least they have a moderate understanding of theory.
VENUSIAN
FB SC BC TW
Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
#13
Right but I've been taught that the bottom note of the time sig gets the beat. So if a quarter note pulse is at 100 bpm in 4:4, then when it switches to the half note getting the beat, a half note would equal 100 bpm pulse making a quarter 200. Lol, I must just be confusing myself? Thanks for the answers, and I apologize for posting this in the wrong place, should I repost the topic in musician's talk?
#14
Quote by darkstar2466
People (dumb people) will tell you that 3/2 is the same as 6/4 or 3/4 is the same as 6/8. Don't believe them. Learn rhythmic patterns and time signatures the right way. I don't know a good tutorial to link you to, but someone else will.


Being I'm dumb will you at least tell me the difference ol' wise one
#15
8/8 = eight eighth notes
4/4 = four quarter notes
2/2 = two half notes

12/8 = twelve eighth notes
6/4 = six quarter notes
3/2 = three half notes
#16
Quote by fattyDQ
Right but I've been taught that the bottom note of the time sig gets the beat. So if a quarter note pulse is at 100 bpm in 4:4, then when it switches to the half note getting the beat, a half note would equal 100 bpm pulse making a quarter 200. Lol, I must just be confusing myself? Thanks for the answers, and I apologize for posting this in the wrong place, should I repost the topic in musician's talk?


You're better off learning to understand time signatures instead, get some theory books instead of asking other people every time you come across a problem.

give a man a fish and he can feed himself for a day, blah blah blah.

Quote by ctb
8/8 = eight eighth notes
4/4 = four quarter notes
2/2 = two half notes

12/8 = twelve eighth notes
6/4 = six quarter notes
3/2 = three half notes


It's nowhere near as simple as that. It cannot be broken down that easily- there are simple, triple, compound, and complex sigs- each carry different accented beats, different bar structures, different note groupings, etc.
VENUSIAN
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Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
Last edited by rabidguitarist at Sep 18, 2008,
#17
Quote by rabidguitarist
You're better off learning to understand time signatures instead, get some theory books instead of asking other people every time you come across a problem.

give a man a fish and he can feed himself for a day, blah blah blah.


Whats the difference between 3/2 and 6/4?.. I wanna know now. I might just go post a thread in musicians talk asking lol
#18
but that's the thing. I'm at the top of my theory class and we just covered this topic. That's the ONLY reason I'm posting it online, there's a faculty retreat today so I can't ask my music teachers
#19
Quote by GuitarKid61791
Being I'm dumb will you at least tell me the difference ol' wise one


If you play in 3/2, the half note gets the beat. If you are in 6/4, the quarter note gets the beat. Good so far?

If you play three half notes in 3/2 at 100 bpm and six quarter notes in 6/4 at 100 bpm, it will sound the same. If you play six quarter notes in 3/2 at 100 bpm, it would sound like six eighth notes in 6/4 at 100 bpm. That is because the note value is relative to the time signature and the tempo. It's just how many beats there are per measure and what the basis of the note value is.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#20
Alright I understand that I just don't get why it does that. How come if you write stuff in guitar pro like that it doesn't do that? It just adds more notes, which are being played with the same timing as before..
#21
Quote by darkstar2466
If you play in 3/2, the half note gets the beat. If you are in 6/4, the quarter note gets the beat. Good so far?

If you play three half notes in 3/2 at 100 bpm and six quarter notes in 6/4 at 100 bpm, it will sound the same. If you play six quarter notes in 3/2 at 100 bpm, it would sound like six eighth notes in 6/4 at 100 bpm. That is because the note value is relative to the time signature and the tempo. It's just how many beats there are per measure and what the basis of the note value is.


if you've got "quarter note = 80" at the then that change from 4/4 to 3/2 would be a half time feel type of thing (in threes)
#22
Quote by GuitarKid61791
Alright I understand that I just don't get why it does that. How come if you write stuff in guitar pro like that it doesn't do that? It just adds more notes, which are being played with the same timing as before..


I don't know man. That was what I was taught in music theory class from an established professor and I'm simply regurgitating it.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#23
Quote by darkstar2466
I don't know man. That was what I was taught in music theory class from an established professor and I'm simply regurgitating it.


alright thanks I'm gonna look into it now. It makes sense what you're saying I just wanna understand why because thats not how i thought it was..
#24
Quote by GuitarKid61791
Whats the difference between 3/2 and 6/4?.. I wanna know now. I might just go post a thread in musicians talk asking lol


3/2 is triple time- three beats in a bar.

Waltzes will be written like this- the first beat of the bar is accented, and it will go like this.

DUUH duuh duuh | DUUH duuh duuh | DUUH duuh duuh | DUUH duuh duuh ||


6/4 is compound time- two beats in a bar, each beat is split into three.

DUH duh duh DUH duh duh | DUH duh duh DUH duh duh ||

Trying to understand how the tempo will continue with the sig change will only make sense once you understand the sigs themselves.
VENUSIAN
FB SC BC TW
Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
#25
Quote by rabidguitarist
3/2 is triple time- three beats in a bar.

Waltzes will be written like this- the first beat of the bar is accented, and it will go like this.

DUUH duuh duuh | DUUH duuh duuh | DUUH duuh duuh | DUUH duuh duuh ||


6/4 is compound time- two beats in a bar, each beat is split into three.

DUH duh duh DUH duh duh | DUH duh duh DUH duh duh ||

Trying to understand how the tempo will continue with the sig change will only make sense once you understand the sigs themselves.


So if the time sig is cut in half ex: 6/4 going into 3/2.. its like the tempo is being doubled?
#26
Quote by GuitarKid61791
So if the time sig is cut in half ex: 6/4 going into 3/2.. its like the tempo is being doubled?


No! 3/2 is not half 6/4!

If the time signature changes from 3/2 to 6/4, then you'll continue at the same speed, but it will change from triple time to compound time. IE, 3 beats a bar to 2 triple beats a bar.
VENUSIAN
FB SC BC TW
Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
#27
I just looked at Guitar Pro and see what you are thrown off by. The quarter note is given 120 bpm (by default) in Guitar Pro, so no matter what time signature you are in, a quarter note WILL be played relative to that tempo. That's why a quarter note in 3/2 and a quarter note in 6/4 are the same thing in Guitar Pro. In actuality, they are not the same thing, if you are continuing at the same tempo.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#28
Quote by darkstar2466
I just looked at Guitar Pro and see what you are thrown off by. The quarter note is given 120 bpm (by default) in Guitar Pro, so no matter what time signature you are in, a quarter note WILL be played relative to that tempo. That's why a quarter note in 3/2 and a quarter note in 6/4 are the same thing in Guitar Pro. In actuality, they are not the same thing, if you are continuing at the same tempo.


oooh, alright yes. That's why it confused me so much, I just can't grasp this lol thanks. I kinda get it now with the triple feel and half feel thing. I just always thought it as how GP had it cause well I don't know I thought GP knew everthing thanks guys
#29
Quote by GuitarKid61791
I'm confused.. Why is 3/2 and 6/4 not the same? If you go into Guitar Pro and write 4 measures of music in 4/4 then you change the next measure to 3/2 all it is is putting 2 extra beats in the measure, not changing the speed of anything.


the actual amount of notes in each are the same (i.e. both will have 6 quarter notes in), which explains the Guitar Pro thing. but, as rabidguitarist explained, the feel/rhythm/beat/whatever is different - does this help with your confusion?

EDIT: dammit darkstar explained it better.
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#30
Ok, this recording is a bar of 3/2, then a bar of 6/4, then 3/2, then 6/4, and a final chord.

This illustrates the way the bar in either time signature will fit into the same amount of time, but the note groupings are different. I accented the strong beats. [being; beat 1 in 3/2 bars, and beat 1 and 3 in 6/4 bars]

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1874181_8kddu/threetwosixfour.mp3

And yes, I want to be a music teacher.
VENUSIAN
FB SC BC TW
Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
#31
Quote by rabidguitarist
Ok, this recording is a bar of 3/2, then a bar of 6/4, then 3/2, then 6/4, and a final chord.

This illustrates the way the bar in either time signature will fit into the same amount of time, but the note groupings are different. I accented the strong beats. [being; beat 1 in 3/2 bars, and beat 1 and 3 in 6/4 bars]

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1874181_8kddu/threetwosixfour.mp3

And yes, I want to be a music teacher.


Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie