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#1
Okay guys, yesterday in my biology class we had somewhat of a debate. It was over genetic engineering and whether we should play God with our own genome and stuff such as that. It was interesting what people said. I had always thought atheists to be generally okay with this subject because well it always seemed that playing God would be a religious worry. Well, I personally think we should, I mean, if you could get a better genetic playing card wouldn't you? It does seem there would be many social issues along with it like overpopulation, (not as big a problem as many would believe because we have the resources to feed all we just don't use them) the only real negative effect I saw is that it would create a new class system of people who could afford gene therapy and people who couldn't. So what is your idea on this Pit?
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#2
black and white 3?
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#3
Read my blog on genetic engineering to see what is actually possible and why most people are shitting their pants over nothing when it comes to genetics.
#4
I've said it before and I'll say it again, homosexuality is nature's answer to overpopulation.
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#6
Quote by tayroar
It does seem there would be many social issues along with it like overpopulation

Would that be because people aren't dying or that a supposed 'army' of clones will be made. The latter will never happen because one, scientists have no interest in it, and two, human rights groups would never allow it to happen.
Quote by tayroar
the only real negative effect I saw is that it would create a new class system of people who could afford gene therapy and people who couldn't.

It's called public healthcare. COME GET SOME!!
But I wouldn't say a new 'class' would be made. I mean, the only people that need gene therapy have diseases (a small percentage of the population).

Oh and also, I don't believe in God so therefore we cannot play 'God'.
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#7
Watch "GATTACA" it's a movie all about that stuff.

Personally, I would give my child stuff like superior intelligence and athelticism without being obsessed with that stuff. If it's a boy, I'll give him a 7.5, and if it's a girl I'll give her 34Cs. That sort of stuff.
hue
#9
Quote by sock_demon
Watch "GATTACA" it's a movie all about that stuff.

Personally, I would give my child stuff like superior intelligence and athelticism without being obsessed with that stuff. If it's a boy, I'll give him a 7.5, and if it's a girl I'll give her 34Cs. That sort of stuff.


Yeah I've seen it and that is what sparked most of the conversation.
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#10
I was God in a play once...


Seriously though, I think in some cases it's needed, but then again, we're not playing God, God is making us do this stuff.


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#11
Quote by tayroar
Yeah I've seen it and that is what sparked most of the conversation.



lol, if you really want, you can give your kid extra fingers like the pianist in that movie.

*COUGHJOHNPETRUCCICOUGH*
hue
#12
Quote by freedoms_stain
Read my blog on genetic engineering to see what is actually possible and why most people are shitting their pants over nothing when it comes to genetics.


Yeah I realized what people think we can do is a large exaggeration, but I mean I'm sure eventually it will be possible to manipulate genes into what you want. I also found the blog on my evolution vs. devolution thread and yes I did mean degeneration lol. I'm only a high schooler so you can't expect me to know all that lol.
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#13
Quote by breadstick
Would that be because people aren't dying or that a supposed 'army' of clones will be made. The latter will never happen because one, scientists have no interest in it, and two, human rights groups would never allow it to happen.

It's called public healthcare. COME GET SOME!!
But I wouldn't say a new 'class' would be made. I mean, the only people that need gene therapy have diseases (a small percentage of the population).

Oh and also, I don't believe in God so therefore we cannot play 'God'.


Did you read that at all? Also playing God is a figure of speech you don't have to be a dick about everything.
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#14
Quote by tayroar
Did you read that at all? Also playing God is a figure of speech you don't have to be a dick about everything.

Oh, sorry if it came off that way, but I wasn't being a jerk. I guess you reached that conclusion through my "COME GET SOME!!" remark. I was simply bragging about how awesome Australia is with our public healthcare while trying to act like a jock.

Seriously, I wasn't trying to be a tool.

And the whole playing God thing wasn't towards you, but to the people who use the phrase and actually mean it.
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#15
I'm ok with that, as long as everybody gets his share if its to prevent cancers and diseases. Anything else would be useless and inappropriated.
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#16
Quote by breadstick
Oh, sorry if it came off that way, but I wasn't being a jerk. I guess you reached that conclusion through my "COME GET SOME!!" remark. I was simply bragging about how awesome Australia is with our public healthcare while trying to act like a jock.

Seriously, I wasn't trying to be a tool.

And the whole playing God thing wasn't towards you, but to the people who use the phrase and actually mean it.


Ok, forgiven but I doubt improving your child would be covered in government health care unless it was to prevent a worse problem which would cost them less money.
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#19
Quote by tayroar
Ok, forgiven but I doubt improving your child would be covered in government health care unless it was to prevent a worse problem which would cost them less money.

Ohhhh by gene therapy you mean making 'designer babies' and such. I thought you meant injecting insulin genes into diabetics for example.

In that case, I do agree that a new class system could be formed.
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#20
I'm hopefully going to university in 2009 to hopefully do Genetics.
I can't wait to start playing god!
I get to clone things in the final year.

But, I think that any form of Genetic engineering should be HEAVILY moderated - let natural selection reign supreme.
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#21
Quote by Simsimius
I'm hopefully going to university in 2009 to hopefully do Genetics.
I can't wait to start playing god!
I get to clone things in the final year.

But, I think that any form of Genetic engineering should be HEAVILY moderated - let natural selection reign supreme.


Hospitals cancel natural selection out though.
e.g. If some dick with half a brain jumps off a bridge because he felt like it, I think that his genes are telling him something. But then we go and ignore that by helping him. He will then breed and create a few kids that jump of bridges, but then we heal them and they breed, and soon we have a world filled with bridge jumping twats.

Natural selection doesn't seem to exist anymore for us humans.

That being said, I'm not saying that hospitals should be jihadded to the ground for the sake of natural selection/Allah. But I am strongly against a world with bridge jumping twats.

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#24
I think it's fine for diseases and health issues, but to try to improve the human race, that's going too far. To make all future humans "perfect" (superior strength, intelligence, organ size) would make for one boring world. We're not perfect, we all make mistakes. This is what makes us interesting, and makes every day different.
#25
How can you play God? D'you sign up to all the religions or something?

/deliberate stupidity.
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#26
'Playing God' is natural, it has been brewing for a while now, we are capable of great things, this manipulation of the human genome etc is the key to our evolution, the betterance(I make up words, get over it) of our race. Anyone who wants us to stay as we are and stand in the way of progress should be taken care of. And I don't mean looked after with kindness.
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#27
I don't think we need genetic engineering
We've managed to survive quite well without it so far.
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#28
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I don't think we need genetic engineering
We've managed to survive quite well without it so far.


You could say that about any aspect of modern life though. TV, paracetemol, pens, mobile phones, iPods, hairdryers, cars, etc.
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#29
When the nazi's did it, it was a crime. When the Americans do it, its ''beneficial.''

Big sack of shit IMO.
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#30
Quote by bob farrell
'Playing God' is natural, it has been brewing for a while now, we are capable of great things, this manipulation of the human genome etc is the key to our evolution, the betterance(I make up words, get over it) of our race. Anyone who wants us to stay as we are and stand in the way of progress should be taken care of. And I don't mean looked after with kindness.
No, No, No and some more No.

Man can't predict what the future is going to e so directly interfering in our genetics as a matter of course would be a matter of evolutionary suicide. Evolution thrives on diversity, man would choose the "best" genes to build its "perfect" man, however once the environment changes and that man is no longer perfect where is the diversity that normal sexual reproduction produces?

Genetically engineering people in a GATTACA type model would be fucking retarded.
#31
Okay guys, yesterday in my biology class we had somewhat of a debate. It was over genetic engineering and whether we should play God with our own genome and stuff such as that. It was interesting what people said. I had always thought atheists to be generally okay with this subject because well it always seemed that playing God would be a religious worry. Well, I personally think we should, I mean, if you could get a better genetic playing card wouldn't you? It does seem there would be many social issues along with it like overpopulation, (not as big a problem as many would believe because we have the resources to feed all we just don't use them) the only real negative effect I saw is that it would create a new class system of people who could afford gene therapy and people who couldn't. So what is your idea on this Pit?


Im all for experimentation in the area but it would have to be heavily regulated...
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#32
Quote by freedoms_stain
No, No, No and some more No.

Man can't predict what the future is going to e so directly interfering in our genetics as a matter of course would be a matter of evolutionary suicide. Evolution thrives on diversity, man would choose the "best" genes to build its "perfect" man, however once the environment changes and that man is no longer perfect where is the diversity that normal sexual reproduction produces?

Genetically engineering people in a GATTACA type model would be fucking retarded.



My thoughts, exactly.

/Thread.
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#33
Quote by freedoms_stain
No, No, No and some more No.

Man can't predict what the future is going to e so directly interfering in our genetics as a matter of course would be a matter of evolutionary suicide. Evolution thrives on diversity, man would choose the "best" genes to build its "perfect" man, however once the environment changes and that man is no longer perfect where is the diversity that normal sexual reproduction produces?

Genetically engineering people in a GATTACA type model would be fucking retarded.


Unless designer babies became a business and then they charged more for each gene you "improved", meaning that people would have to only pick a few genes to mess with. Then there'd arise a class divide between the rich people with designer genetics and the lower classes who had natural traits.
I play by my own rules. And I have one rule; There are no rules... but if there are, they're there to be broken. Even this one.


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#34
Quote by rickyy
When the nazi's did it, it was a crime. When the Americans do it, its ''beneficial.''

Big sack of shit IMO.


Well the Americans aren't doing it by committing genocide...

I realise I've sounded like I support it in this thread, but I don't really have a side, I just think it could go either way at this early stage.
I play by my own rules. And I have one rule; There are no rules... but if there are, they're there to be broken. Even this one.


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#35
Quote by freedoms_stain
No, No, No and some more No.

Man can't predict what the future is going to e so directly interfering in our genetics as a matter of course would be a matter of evolutionary suicide. Evolution thrives on diversity, man would choose the "best" genes to build its "perfect" man, however once the environment changes and that man is no longer perfect where is the diversity that normal sexual reproduction produces?

Genetically engineering people in a GATTACA type model would be fucking retarded.



But surely a "perfect" organism would be one that can instantly adapt/ morph to fit his/her environment. I'm not sure if this is possible, but making the best possible person for this environment is NOT perfect..making the best organism for ALL environments is perfect.
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#36
Oh come on now, god's been doing such a bang-up job, why should we do anything different?
#37
Quote by break-me-in
Unless designer babies became a business and then they charged more for each gene you "improved", meaning that people would have to only pick a few genes to mess with. Then there'd arise a class divide between the rich people with designer genetics and the lower classes who had natural traits.
It'd still be decreasing diversity and increasing homozygosity, if we take the starting point as a fertilised egg from the parents which is then engineered, at the 2nd generation all the eggs to be engineered have the manipulations made on them by their parents, carry that forward on and on and on and homozygosity is increasing.

Yeah, there'd be a class divide, but the classes are never 100% seperate, there is still sexual activity between them, passing the engineered genes down.
#38
Quote by osXtiger
Hospitals cancel natural selection out though.
e.g. If some dick with half a brain jumps off a bridge because he felt like it, I think that his genes are telling him something. But then we go and ignore that by helping him. He will then breed and create a few kids that jump of bridges, but then we heal them and they breed, and soon we have a world filled with bridge jumping twats.

Natural selection doesn't seem to exist anymore for us humans.

That being said, I'm not saying that hospitals should be jihadded to the ground for the sake of natural selection/Allah. But I am strongly against a world with bridge jumping twats.


Yeah - why should we bother saving people like that. If they want to jump of a bridge, they know what will happen, and so we should not intervene.
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#39
Quote by break-me-in
You could say that about any aspect of modern life though. TV, paracetemol, pens, mobile phones, iPods, hairdryers, cars, etc.

Yes you could.

But I don't see how some people see it as the 'key' to our evolution. Take pedigree dogs for example, in order to keep them pure bred they've become more likely to inherit genetic disorders. If genetic engineering comes down to people trying to improve their genes, then there's no point in it existing.
Even with genetic engineering to remove diseases and disorders, it can actually be beneficial to be a sickle cell disease carrier as the carriers are often more resistant to malaria.
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Last edited by OddOneOut at Sep 19, 2008,
#40
Assuming it wasn't used to create a massively unequal society, I'm all for it. Would fuck with sports a bit though.

And of course you can do things like correct crippling genetic disorders. At the very least, people should be in favour of that and just not "unnecessary" enhancement.
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