Poll: What kind of universe do we live in?
Poll Options
View poll results: What kind of universe do we live in?
Nontheistic, Natural Universe
482 55%
Nontheistic, Supernatural Universe
59 7%
Nontheistic, Simulated Universe
45 5%
Nontheistic, other
24 3%
Theistic, Deistic Universe
80 9%
Theistic, Weakly Theistic Universe
48 5%
Theistic, Strongly Theistic Universe
41 5%
Theistic, Created Universe
74 8%
Theistic, other
21 2%
Voters: 874.
Page 1 of 21
#1
I am creating this thread as spin-off from the Evolution or Creationism thread. It is not meant to replace it but rather ask in what kind of universe we live in.

Don't be overwhelmed by the amount of poll options. Please take your time to read through the descriptions befory selecting an option.

I'd like to encourage rational debate in this thread therefore refrain from making posts like "gawdsucks" or "goddidit". Instead provide your reasoning, formulate your posts well and civilly point out the flaws in other people's arguments.

Nontheistic Universes

Natural Universe:
Big Bang, Nucleosynthesis, Stellar formation, Abiogenesis, Evolution
No supernatural first cause.


Supernatural Universe:
Supernatural events happen without the existence of a deity.

Simulated Universe:
You took the red pill, didn't you?

Theistic Universes

Deistic Universe:
Is indistinguishable from a Natural Universe. Deity is the first cause. After that everything develops on its own.

Weakly Theistic Universe:
Like a Deistic Universe with the difference that the deity steers natural processes e.g. Theistic Evolution, everything is predetermined by the deity.

Strongly Theistic Universe:
Like a Deistic Universe with the difference that the deity intervenes and causes supernatural events e.g. deity spontaneously creates life, miracles, existence of an afterlife.

Created Universe:
Everything has been created in its current form. Young-Earth Creationism falls into this category.

Oh, and inb4 42.
#2
I like this idea.

Nontheistic Natural for me please. Because my God is probability.

EDIT: Should we state why we believe, or clarify the "other" categories?
Last edited by LordBishek at Sep 19, 2008,
#3
Nontheistic, other.

I'm going with the 'Big Bang' hypothesis for now but I honestly haven't studied it that far; I'm just stuck between nontheism and scepticism, and am siding with science in the interim. I really think that it's irrelevant how things started. For example, even if the universe was created by a supernatural being, there is no evidence to suggest that this being is benevolent, or even still around.
Last edited by rigiddigits at Sep 19, 2008,
#4
Hmmm...
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thats pretty epic.
So you're like a slower paced Forrest Gump...
Yup...
#8
Natural Nontheistic.

EDIT: I believe this because, I believe the world was not created by a greater power (deity). I believe it all existed before we did, and we are fortunate enough to live on Earth like we do, and don't need to be thankful to anyone besides nature.
Last edited by brentondig at Sep 19, 2008,
#10
The first one, natural big bang etc, and may be the second one

Theres a great Stephen Hawking comment where he says something like 'things happen so far out of our understanding that we may have to say, God did it'

Which is very true, but I dont belive God could have created the universe, but there certainly could be beings out there far more advanced than us.




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#11
Strongly Theistic universe, planned, created and 'maintained' by one omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent God.

Edit: really, I think the universe has to be theistic, because the other option would be that there was nothing; no matter, no energy, etc., and then for no reason this nothing exploded to form something.

I reckon it's not that we don't know how the universe was created, its just that some 'smart' men in white suits don't like the idea that God created the universe for some reason. Romans 1:22 - "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools."
Last edited by kenan6346 at Sep 19, 2008,
#12
I believe in a pantheistic world where there is no concious god, but there is an all-encompassing spiritual.. being, which controls our karma and our reincarnation.

I guess I'd have to go with 'supernatural universe'.
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#13
The universe We live in is clearly natural, and anyone who says otherwise doesn't work right in the head. Anything unexplainable will eventually be explained. We hardly know anything about the fundamental laws of existence, other than that there are laws.

This doesn't mean however there aren't other universes or planes of existence that interact with ours or not, and that may or may not be natural. We simply don't know.

That's why both hard core faithfuls and hard core atheists piss me off, neither side knows.
#15
Quote by kenan6346
Strongly Theistic universe.



LOL troll baiting are you?
#16
Quote by MiG_853
LOL troll baiting are you?


Idiot being are you?
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Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
#17
Quote by rigiddigits
For example, even if the universe was created by a supernatural being, there is no evidence to suggest that this being is benevolent, or even still around.



You know, I like that point.
Maybe the universe was created by life forms that existed before the current universe :P.

Voted for "Nontheistic, Natural Universe". Big Bang [or whatever new theories arise] FTW.
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#19
I don't know what this falls under, but I loved it when Billy Connolly said something along the lines "I think our universe is part of the leg of a table, or something like that."

Hard to explain, but basically our existence is part of something much much larger that we have no ability to comprehend. Our universe makes up the leg of a table in a much larger world, and humans are microscopic bacteria.

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#20
Quote by rigiddigits
Nontheistic, other.

I'm going with the 'Big Bang' hypothesis for now but I honestly haven't studied it that far; I'm just stuck between nontheism and scepticism, and am siding with science in the interim. I really think that it's irrelevant how things started. For example, even if the universe was created by a supernatural being, there is no evidence to suggest that this being is benevolent, or even still around.


But you're assuming that people only believe in things that they have scientific evidence for. If that was true, then this world would be even more ****ed up than it already is.
VENUSIAN
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Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
#21
Quote by rabidguitarist
But you're assuming that people only believe in things that they have scientific evidence for. If that was true, then this world would be even more ****ed up than it already is.


You don't know that for sure.
#22
You forgot agnosticism.

There simply isn't enough evidence to support either side.
#23
Quote by rabidguitarist
But you're assuming that people only believe in things that they have scientific evidence for. If that was true, then this world would be even more ****ed up than it already is.

Well lets be fair, Chrisitians etc cant prove anything they say about God creating the universe, God even existing etc etc I mean if he loves each and every one of us so much, why is Earth so f**ked up?




Quote by dogismycopilot
Absent Mind, words cant express how much i love you. Id bone you, oh yea.

Quote by lumberjack
Absent Mind is, as usual, completely correct.

Quote by littlemurph7976
Id like to make my love for Neil public knowledge as he is a beautiful man
#24
Quote by Withakay
You forgot agnosticism.

There simply isn't enough evidence to support either side.


Agnosticism is technically a form of weak atheism. And most atheists are agnostics to some degree or another. Any who say they "know" there isn't a god are guilty of the same fundamentalism we so regularly accuse the devoutly religious of.
#25
Quote by Absent Mind
Well lets be fair, Chrisitians etc cant prove anything they say about God creating the universe, God even existing etc etc I mean if he loves each and every one of us so much, why is Earth so f**ked up?


You're asking me to argue for Christianity. I am neither Christian nor understand the beliefs, so I cannot answer that question for you...

Quote by LordBishek
You don't know that for sure.


Yes I do. If we chucked all ideas of the soul, morality, love and compassion out of the window, and focused on economy, material, and physical pleasure, this just becomes a business, not a society. People are born, they try their best to get as much money as they can, maybe try and continue the human race, then die.
VENUSIAN
FB SC BC TW
Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
Last edited by rabidguitarist at Sep 19, 2008,
#26
Nonthesistic natural.
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#27
Quote by rabidguitarist
You're asking me to argue for Christianity. I am neither Christian nor understand the beliefs, so I cannot answer that question for you...


Well then, clarify yours, dude. I don't understand how you can claim the world would be a more screwed up place without religion. Are you saying morality wouldn't exist without belief in God?

EDIT: Oh I get it, I misinterpreted you
Last edited by LordBishek at Sep 19, 2008,
#28
"Nontheistic, Natural Universe"

Unsurprisingly about 75% voted for this, giving my 25% hypothesis more evidence
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#29
Quote by Kensai
"Nontheistic, Natural Universe"

Unsurprisingly about 75% voted for this, giving my 25% hypothesis more evidence

Elaborate, please.

Quote by rabidguitarist
Yes I do. If we chucked all ideas of the soul, morality, love and compassion out of the window, and focused on economy, material, and physical pleasure, this just becomes a business, not a society. People are born, they try their best to get as much money as they can, maybe try and continue the human race, then die.

Morality, love and compassion fall into the realms of ethics, anthropology, chemistry and biology. It is hard-wired into all (most) of us. How would that vanish?
Last edited by Firzen_Zero at Sep 19, 2008,
#31
[quote="kenan6346
Edit: really, I think the universe has to be theistic, because the other option would be that there was nothing; no matter, no energy, etc., and then for no reason this nothing exploded to form something.
QUOTE"]

Then were did the entity who craeted the universe come from? Surely it then had to have been created out of nothing to then create the universe?

Only humans can look at our universe, and beyond to the hundreds of other universes and think that it was all created for us, due to some omnipetent deity.
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#32
Quote by rabidguitarist
You're asking me to argue for Christianity. I am neither Christian nor understand the beliefs, so I cannot answer that question for you...


Yes I do. If we chucked all ideas of the soul, morality, love and compassion out of the window, and focused on economy, material, and physical pleasure, this just becomes a business, not a society. People are born, they try their best to get as much money as they can, maybe try and continue the human race, then die.


Holly shit, you have a soul!

But I can't agree, morality, love and compassion are emotions that can exist without theistic beliefs, in fact, it'd be pretty sad if we depended on god to be nice to one and other.

One of the founding principles of modern legal philosophy, is that man, through reason acheives compassion, and a notion of justice, without god.
Last edited by MiG_853 at Sep 19, 2008,
#34
Quote by Firzen_Zero
Elaborate, please.


Basically, 25% of UG are tools. And I've got plenty of polls to back it up
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#36
Quote by Firzen_Zero
Elaborate, please.


Morality, love and compassion fall into the realms of ethics, anthropology, chemistry and biology. It is hard-wired into all (most) of us. How would that vanish?


Is it fuck.
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Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
#37
God uses natural means more often than not to bring about his will.
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#38
Quote by Firzen_Zero
FYI to elaborate is a verb too. :p


I'm messing with you

Quote by rabidguitarist
Is it fuck.


Why?
#39
Quote by Kensai
"Nontheistic, Natural Universe"

Unsurprisingly about 75% voted for this, giving my 25% hypothesis more evidence


No, it completely disproved your theory.

You said that 25% vote for the stupid answer. In this case, 75% have.

Quote by LordBishek
Why?


Because the physical is separate from the spiritual. Morality and love are metaphysical, and they are part of our soul, not our body.
VENUSIAN
FB SC BC TW
Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
Last edited by rabidguitarist at Sep 19, 2008,
#40
Quote by rabidguitarist
No, it completely disproved your theory.

You said that 25% vote for the stupid answer. In this case, 75% have.


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