#1
Well, I was messing around with scale ideas in my head, and I came up with what I think is a pretty cool scale. it isnt diatonic and doesnt afraid of anything.

Er yeah, sorry about that. I know too many internet memes... >_>

So here's the scale degrees: 1 b2 3 #4 5 6 b7

For those who aren't quite ready to figure out what notes are in a scale from the degrees, here's the notes in E (cause we guitarists love anything in E): E F G# A# B C# D

And for those who are still learning the notes on the neck, here's a diagram of the scale in open position:
  0 1 2 3 4 5
E|0|0|-|-|0|-|
B|0|-|0|0|-|-|
G|-|0|-|0|-|-|
D|0|-|0|0|-|-|
A|-|0|0|-|0|-|
E|0|0|-|-|0|-|

The numbers up the top are the fret numbers, and the 0's on the strings are where the notes are. Low and high E open and D string 2nd fret are the root.

Now, to the point of this thread. I guess there are two points: one, to share this scale with anyone who might be interested in playing around with it, and two, to ask some of the more knowledgable theory guys in here what they know about this scale. Things like have you seen it before, what would you call it, do you know if it's a mode of another scale, etc etc. So far I've just been calling it a Lydian Dominant b2. Anyone got a better name?
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#4
Quote by pageisgod493
there all open? 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 so basically u found this just sitting there strumming your guitar

You, sir, are an idiot
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#7
Ok.. you can delete comments for a reason..

Now, to the point of the thread:

Just looking at this on paper, haven't got my guitar with me, I can say I haven't seen this before. Looking at the steps: H 1.5 W H W H W it doesn't appear to be any mode of any other scale that I know (which really isn't saying much). It's got the 1.5 step leap from the 2 to the 3, then a whole step following that.. If you try building a chord of the 2nd degree you don't get a usual chord: F A# C#, which is F+sus4, quite an odd chord to find in a harmonized scale, to say the least. I'm quite interested to play the scale when I get back home, though, just to see how it sounds.

EDIT: ^ Yeah, that is true.. could be E half-whole with the 3rd tone missing.
Nor less I deem that there are Powers
Which of themselves our minds impress;
That we can feed this mind of ours
In a wise passiveness.
--Wordsworth

last.fm
Last edited by Thursdae at Sep 22, 2008,
#11
I don't have any better names for ya. I ran through the modes of your scale too and it doesn't look like it's another mode I know. Although I know there are many synthetic scales and weird stuff like that I don't know. Yours is very close to an oriental scale of 1 b2 3 4 b5 6 b7. Your #4 would be the b5 and obviously you play the 5th as well. The modes of your scale have some interesting results though.

Mode 1 (your scale): 1 b2 3 #4 5 6 b7
Mode 2: 1 #2 #3 #4 #5 6 7
Mode 3: 1 2 b3 4 b5 b6 bb7
Mode 4: 1 b2 b3 b4 b5 bb6 b7
Mode 5: 1 2 b3 4 b5 6 7
Mode 6: 1 b2 b3 b4 5 6 b7
Mode 7: 1 2 b3 #4 #5 6 7

A lot of these scales would make more sense written enharmonically and forgetting the need for each scale degree. I dunno man, have fun with it...
#13
Well I had a brief look and it seems like Martin's hit the nail on the head with his comment about it just being an E half-whole diminished with the third note removed. Good spotting sir.

As for how it sounds, kinda weird. It's got the Phrygian Dominant sound in the first 3 notes, but then cause of the #4 it sounds more like a minor scale or something, it kind of resolves. And then the last few tones are pleasant on the ears, or so I find. I reckon it'd be cool to write something progressive in this. *Symphony X kind of stuff maybe...


*Note: I have an obsession with Symphony X. Possibly an unhealthy obsession...
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#14
This is awesome. Mind if I steal this for a song or two?
Q: Favourite Pink Floyd song?
A: The one where they get wicked high and play Emin and A for an hour.
#17
Quote by Martindecorum
very interesting PSM, good find,

Haha, at least one of you actually read my response.

An interesting note is that this scale contains the same notes as the "Petrushka Chord" used by Igor Stravinsky in his infamous ballet "Petrushka" back in the early 1900s. Stravinsky's "chord" leaves out the 6th scale degree, though, but if you want to know why I put "chord" in quotations, do a little reading on this chord. Good stuff.
Last edited by PSM at Sep 22, 2008,
#18
Quote by memyselfandus


Haha, I remember that guy.. posting all sorts of scales and stuff.


And ^ that's really interesting.. may have to check out that Stravinsky piece.
Nor less I deem that there are Powers
Which of themselves our minds impress;
That we can feed this mind of ours
In a wise passiveness.
--Wordsworth

last.fm
#19
Quote by Thursdae
Haha, I remember that guy.. posting all sorts of scales and stuff.


And ^ that's really interesting.. may have to check out that Stravinsky piece.

I highly recommend it.
#20
Quote by travislausch
This is awesome. Mind if I steal this for a song or two?

Last time I checked scales are free for anyone to use.
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#21
Quote by cerveza
You, sir, are and idiot
Fix'd (skater knows where I'm going with this one)

I've been kind of turned of using non-diatonic scales. If I'm writing equal temperment, I would use diatonics with a crapload of accidentals.

I dunno, for some reason I came into here expecting to see a usable 21tet scale.
#22
I should have noticed when you told me, it was a Half-Whole with out a #9.

Completley forgot about it within a day or two to be honest. Shouldent be forgetting about music.
Last edited by Galvanise69 at Oct 2, 2008,
#25
When me and TS were talking we figured it was best described at the time as a Lydian Dominant b2

Which is the fourth mode of Melodic Minor b5.

As he actually stated in the thread.
#27
I wasnt indicating that the Melodic Minor had a b5.

I was indicating that it was a Lydian Dominant b2 the 4th mode of the Melodic Minor b5.

I wasnt indicating that Melodic Minor had a b5, sorry if it came across that way.

Sorry I didnt indicate Jazz Melodic Minor, I just assumed (I shoudnt) that because the classical descending version of the Melodic Minor was the Aeolian, and if I had wanetd to make it clear I was talking about Aeolian, I would have said Aeolian.

But, yes, I should have signified jazz melodic minor just so anyone coming into the convo, realised the scale was the same ascending as down.
#28
I was indicating that it was a Lydian Dominant b2 the 4th mode of the Melodic Minor b5...

Wait... you took the melodic minor, which is already a mode of the major scale, changed its steps to be a 4th degree lydian mode, and flatted the second.

WTH?
#29
I took the Melodic Minor correct, the Melodic Minor is not a mode of the Major Scale, its a leading-tone raised to restore the chord to the Dorian Scale/Key.

This scale is Lydian Dominant b2. Lydian Dominant is the 4th mode of the Melodic Minor.

D Melodic Minor has a C# (the raised 7th) the 4th mode runs from G - G with a C#.

This is G Lydian Dominant, the scales TS has got, is Lydian Dominant b2.

This would make G Ab B C# D E F G

This scale is derived from G Lydian Dominant the 4th mode of the Melodic Minor, so to figure out what Skater901's scale is the mode of, we take G Lydian b2 and add the b2 interval back to the original mode.

The b2 interval from G Lydian b2, is Ab.

Take the Ab back to the parent scale of D Melodic Minor is D Melodic Minor b5.

Sorry, I probably didnt explain well enough
#30
Quote by sesstreets
I was indicating that it was a Lydian Dominant b2 the 4th mode of the Melodic Minor b5...

Wait... you took the melodic minor, which is already a mode of the major scale, changed its steps to be a 4th degree lydian mode, and flatted the second.

WTH?


No.. it's not.

EDIT: Beaten to it.
Nor less I deem that there are Powers
Which of themselves our minds impress;
That we can feed this mind of ours
In a wise passiveness.
--Wordsworth

last.fm
#31
I think there's still some confusion over how the Melodic Minor was formed.

Wheather its a Major Scale with a b3 or a Dorian with a raised LT.

I personally think its a Dorian with a raised LT, it makes more sense, firstly

a) Thats how Harmonic Minor was Formed
b) It brings the V chord back to the scale

I dont quite know to be honest, wheather you view it as a Ionian b3, or Dorian Nat 7th changes your naming of the modes to.

Whats your oppinion on this?
#32
Quote by Galvanise69
I think there's still some confusion over how the Melodic Minor was formed.

Wheather its a Major Scale with a b3 or a Dorian with a raised LT.

I personally think its a Dorian with a raised LT, it makes more sense, firstly

a) Thats how Harmonic Minor was Formed
b) It brings the V chord back to the scale

I dont quite know to be honest, wheather you view it as a Ionian b3, or Dorian Nat 7th changes your naming of the modes to.

Whats your oppinion on this?


None of the above. It was formed to eliminate the augmented second present in the harmonic minor scale, which was considered melodically dissonant. This is accomplish by raising the sixth when moving towards the seventh, and flatting the sixth and seventh when moving towards the fifth.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#33
The Harmonic minor scale has a raised 7th with makes the V chord a major chord, thus making a stronger 'harmonic' resolution from V-i.
The melodic minor scale contains a major IV chord because of the major 6th which makes it more melodic, I suppose. The melodic minor scale is different ascending and descending. The jazz melodic minor contains a raised 6th and 7th both ways, and it is commonly used in jazz. It's basically a major scale with a b3.
The modes of jazz melodic minor-
Jazz Melodic Minor- 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7
Dorian b2- 1 b2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Lydian Augmented- 1 2 3 #4 #5 6 7
Lydian b7 or Lydian Dominant- 1 2 3 #4 5 6 b7
Mixolydian b13- 1 2 3 4 5 b6 b7
Locrian #2- 1 2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7
Super Locrian or Altered- 1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7

There. Thats the melodic minor modes and the reason for its formation.
#34
Quote by PSM

An interesting note is that this scale contains the same notes as the "Petrushka Chord" used by Igor Stravinsky in his infamous ballet "Petrushka" back in the early 1900s. Stravinsky's "chord" leaves out the 6th scale degree, though, but if you want to know why I put "chord" in quotations, do a little reading on this chord. Good stuff.


I don't understand the Wiki explanation of it...can you explain please?
Quote by metal4all
Just, no. Locrian should be treated like that gay cousin. Just avoid him cuz he's weird, unstable, and is attracted to the wrong thing.


Quote by steven seagull
Big deal, I bought a hamster once and they put that in a box...doesn't make it a scale.
Last edited by yM.Samurai at Oct 2, 2008,
#36
Jazz Melodic Minor- 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7
Dorian b2- 1 b2 b3 4 5 6 b7 - How do you know its not Phrygian Nat 6th?
Lydian Augmented- 1 2 3 #4 #5 6 7
Lydian b7 or Lydian Dominant- 1 2 3 #4 5 6 b7
Mixolydian b13- 1 2 3 4 5 b6 b7 - Aeolian Dominant
Locrian #2- 1 2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7
Super Locrian or Altered- 1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7

How do you know its not a dorian scale with a raised 7th, it isnt really derived from the Ionian is it, because an Ionian is of a Major tonality, a Melodic Minor is of a Minor tonality.

EDIT: Sorry, Im just being an arshole and picking holes.

Also, I didnt quite know if the Melodic Minor modes would be better written as such

Jazz Melodic Minor- 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7

Dorian b2- 1 b2 b3 4 5 6 b7

Lydian Augmented- 1 2 3 #4 #5 6 7

Lydian Dominant- 1 2 3 #4 5 6 b7

Aeolian Dominant - 1 2 3 4 5 b6 b7

Locrian Nat 2nd - 1 2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

Super Locrian or Altered- 1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7
Last edited by Galvanise69 at Oct 2, 2008,
#37
Galvanise69, you are correct in saying that the melodic minor scale is derived from the minor tonality, but it is not a modal scale. It's reason for creation was for a more 'melodic' sound in resolution by having a minor scale contain a major IV and V chord.
#38
What do you mean, its not a Modal Scale?

A Dominant IV an V chord, but there Major Triads.

What did you mean, its reason for creation was for a more Melodic sound in resolution?

Also, another thought about this scale, its almost the combonation of tones in a V and tts/V

Which, Im assuming makes it a perfect choice over altered dominants.

G B D F - Db/C# F Ab Cb/B

Hybrid Scale: G Ab B C# D F

Your scale has just added a 6th/13th.

Anyway, thats just a bit more info.
Last edited by Galvanise69 at Oct 6, 2008,