#1
Hey

I'm doing some work right now on Cartesian Dualism, and i was asked a question regarding Derek Parfits brain transplant theory.

anyway, the question is 'Is it logically possible for for someones 'unextended' Cartesian Subject to be able to move to a different body with a brain transplant?'

I was thinking it was seeing as how the whole idea is that the mind and the body are seperable...but i can't find any other stuff helping me atm

I realise i'll prob get no answers or answers about barrel rolls, but i'll take my chances in the pit :P
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Quote by TheUnholy
So, apparently "Britain has a large Pakistani community" is now a source of humour?

I hope your Daily Mail strangles you, to be honest.
#2
Tbh I think you're gonna need to give a bit more info, an incredibly large majority of posters probably wont know this theory already.
#3
Quote by aaciseric
Tbh I think you're gonna need to give a bit more info, an incredibly large majority of posters probably wont know this theory already.

hmmm, i was thinking that, but cba to type out a definition of subject dualism and parfits theory, and seeing as how there is no other info on the sheets our teacher gave us, i'll prob just say that it is logical, as the main concept of it is that the mind is seperable...just didn't know it would go into other bodies
I Watched Download 07 on the internet Because I'm A Cheap Bastard and I'm Damn Proud!

Quote by TheUnholy
So, apparently "Britain has a large Pakistani community" is now a source of humour?

I hope your Daily Mail strangles you, to be honest.
#4
it sounds to me more like a mind vs. soul thing rather than a mind vs. body thing (although the body is factored into it). It's like it's asking whether or not our 'self' as it were is simply the culmination of information in our brain - which would mean it could be transfered in a brain transplant - or if our essence as a whole involves more than just our brain, in which case having nothing in our new body but our old brain could perhaps lead to some sort of tearing in our identity.
#5
As far as Descartes is concerned, his idea of the mind being the exact opposite of the body? It could not be transferred as the mind is immaterial. Of course, Descartes is retarded...
#6
well, subject dualism is the idea that our mind is an immaterial thing that is seperable from our body, and need to see if it's logical from it's prospective, so brains don't really have anything to do with it.

BUt cheers for trying
I Watched Download 07 on the internet Because I'm A Cheap Bastard and I'm Damn Proud!

Quote by TheUnholy
So, apparently "Britain has a large Pakistani community" is now a source of humour?

I hope your Daily Mail strangles you, to be honest.
#7
i would say yes because the soul spirit part of their body would be embedded in the "brain" so when transplanted that part would go along with it
#8
I've thought about it, but it would be really weird if you had a brain transplant and when you woke up, you'd be in someone else's body...I just wonder if that's true, so yeah i have that question also.
#9
In cartesian dualism, the mind is the first known substance. It's his first postulate. However, even Descartes wasn't sure that the brain was in fact the mind. As for the soul, it is commonly known that Descartes believed the soul resided in the pituitary gland.

Continuing on, Descartes later postulated that the body in fact exists, but this was after proving God exists and that God would not deceive us, etc. So we can use this knowledge at some point as well.

As for a brain transplant, your analysis depends upon your belief in the matter, not necessarily Descartes'. Descartes' would not have a simple yes or no answer himself. He would say yes in the idea that the mind and body are separate objects, but no because to give a mind a foreign, unconnected body would be to deceive the mind thus ruining his later postulates. So I suppose that an even deeper issue is where in Descartes' career are we considering this transplant.

I'm sorry, I was a philosophy major and the truth is that the majority of questions in a philosophy course have no true right or wrong answer. If you are able to reason correctly, you can go in either direction. Try to understand what the philosophers themselves thought, and then and only then do you add your reflections to it.

Hope this helps.
#10
yeah mate, all this has helped.

I think in the end i'd say that it is debatable whether it is logically possible, because it is seperable from the body, so i don't see what is stopping it form mmoving, yet even if the brain does go, i see no reason to say it moves, as dualism says they are seperate.

anyway, cheers guys, didn;t realise there were so many philosophical thinkers out there...any of you take an A level in it?

There should be a philosophy thread
I Watched Download 07 on the internet Because I'm A Cheap Bastard and I'm Damn Proud!

Quote by TheUnholy
So, apparently "Britain has a large Pakistani community" is now a source of humour?

I hope your Daily Mail strangles you, to be honest.
Last edited by Zebrahead_SICK at Sep 23, 2008,
#11
Quote by fade177
In cartesian dualism, the mind is the first known substance. It's his first postulate. However, even Descartes wasn't sure that the brain was in fact the mind. As for the soul, it is commonly known that Descartes believed the soul resided in the pituitary gland.

Continuing on, Descartes later postulated that the body in fact exists, but this was after proving God exists and that God would not deceive us, etc. So we can use this knowledge at some point as well.

As for a brain transplant, your analysis depends upon your belief in the matter, not necessarily Descartes'. Descartes' would not have a simple yes or no answer himself. He would say yes in the idea that the mind and body are separate objects, but no because to give a mind a foreign, unconnected body would be to deceive the mind thus ruining his later postulates. So I suppose that an even deeper issue is where in Descartes' career are we considering this transplant.

I'm sorry, I was a philosophy major and the truth is that the majority of questions in a philosophy course have no true right or wrong answer. If you are able to reason correctly, you can go in either direction. Try to understand what the philosophers themselves thought, and then and only then do you add your reflections to it.

Hope this helps.

philosophy major, eh? How's that working out for you exactly? On the financial front, i mean.
#12
like I said, I have a degree in philosophy, I don't know what A level means, I'm from America, but my original plans were to become a college professor. However, now I feel called to seminary and to becoming a pastor, but I use my degree everyday. I love seeing the world differently than most others.
#13
who the hell wastes 3-5 years of their lives studying philosophy? In terms of usefulness it ranks somewhere around photography degree's
Quote by RevaM1ssP1ss
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#14
Quote by fade177
like I said, I have a degree in philosophy, I don't know what A level means, I'm from America, but my original plans were to become a college professor. However, now I feel called to seminary and to becoming a pastor, but I use my degree everyday. I love seeing the world differently than most others.


hmmm, cool. A level is basically the qualification before you go into university. I'm gonna do psychology at uni, but coz it may be a scottish uni, i may have to do another 2 years of philosophy. I like the subject but it can be so annoyingly confusing at times and find exams really hard
I Watched Download 07 on the internet Because I'm A Cheap Bastard and I'm Damn Proud!

Quote by TheUnholy
So, apparently "Britain has a large Pakistani community" is now a source of humour?

I hope your Daily Mail strangles you, to be honest.
#15
financially, studying philosophy works great if you use it to become a professor or continue on to any graduate schooling. With the right minors and background you can virtually get into any post graduate program. I have a mathematics minor and could probably use that to continue on to study math or business. Philosophy degrees generally get into law school easily, and if I had had a bio/chem background I could use it to get into med school. You are absolutely right that if you stop your education after college there isn't much you can do, but post-college the possibilities are infinite. Not to mention research shows that philosophy majors on average perform better than their coworkers who actually have degrees in their field. Studying and training yourself in reasoning, logic, not to mention out-of-the-box thinking is something people are looking for in all fields. I suppose the truth a degree is only as useful as you make it.
#16
Quote by Zebrahead_SICK
well, subject dualism is the idea that our mind is an immaterial thing that is seperable from our body, and need to see if it's logical from it's prospective, so brains don't really have anything to do with it.

BUt cheers for trying

Therefore a brain transplant wouldn't work
#18
Here's philosophy in one sentence...

"We don't really exist, or maybe I'm just stoned."
#19
Quote by Trefellin
Here's philosophy in one sentence...

"We don't really exist, or maybe I'm just stoned."

I can refute the extreme skeptic 'do we exist?' question in about six seconds, and if you can't, you're not a good philosopher. At all.

Not to mention you have no idea (at all) of what philosophy compasses.
#21
Quote by Trefellin


I thought that philosphologists would have a sense of humour. Pardon me.

Or I have a great irritation to those who don't understand the subject at all, regardless of humour being intended or not.
#22
Quote by Craigo
Or I have a great irritation to those who don't understand the subject at all, regardless of humour being intended or not.


Isn't it basically a complex version of, "wtf is going on?"
#23
You studied philosophy craigo?
I Watched Download 07 on the internet Because I'm A Cheap Bastard and I'm Damn Proud!

Quote by TheUnholy
So, apparently "Britain has a large Pakistani community" is now a source of humour?

I hope your Daily Mail strangles you, to be honest.
#24
Quote by Trefellin
Isn't it basically a complex version of, "wtf is going on?"

Not at all.
You studied philosophy craigo?

I have an AS in it, studying A2 and also read it privately. Naturally, there are more educated people on the subject on this forum. Planning to take it to Uni with History, then try getting a masters.
#25
philosophers are people who can't stand ignorance and stupidity, so what makes you think an ignorant joke would be something a philsopher would find funny? that's just dumb trefellin
#26
Quote by fade177
philosophers are people who can't stand ignorance and stupidity, so what makes you think an ignorant joke would be something a philsopher would find funny? that's just dumb trefellin

Not really. I cringe at the misunderstanding of things I like or share interest in. For example; try cracking out the classic 'if we evolved from monkeys, why do they still exist' in the evolution vs creationism thread.

Also, a philosopher is someone who engages in philosophy. Most people are philosophers, whether they realise or want to acknowledge it or not, but few are decent ones
#27
Quote by Craigo

I have an AS in it, studying A2 and also read it privately. Naturally, there are more educated people on the subject on this forum. Planning to take it to Uni with History, then try getting a masters.


hmmm cool, I failed my AS in it, retaking it in June. Just started my A2 course, really like philosophy, but find it really hard at same time. not sure if i'm cut out for it but....whatever
I Watched Download 07 on the internet Because I'm A Cheap Bastard and I'm Damn Proud!

Quote by TheUnholy
So, apparently "Britain has a large Pakistani community" is now a source of humour?

I hope your Daily Mail strangles you, to be honest.
#28
Quote by Zebrahead_SICK
hmmm cool, I failed my AS in it, retaking it in June. Just started my A2 course, really like philosophy, but find it really hard at same time. not sure if i'm cut out for it but....whatever

I was getting straight As and managed to get a C. Not so good, but there you go. My overall AS grades weren't amazing, but I'm somehow in A2, despite my slacking off with the target grades of AAB, but more likely to get BBB or ABB with hard work.

I'm cut for it, just need to not mess up.
#29
Quote by wiggy1988
who the hell wastes 3-5 years of their lives studying philosophy? In terms of usefulness it ranks somewhere around photography degree's




Nigga please, we get to travel the world, take pics of nude supermodels and for some reason get paid to do it.
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#30
Quote by Kensai


Nigga please, we get to travel the world, take pics of nude supermodels and for some reason get paid to do it.

I get to stand up at parties, with a drink in my hand, explaining why they have no free will.

It's pretty rad.
#31
Quote by Craigo
I was getting straight As and managed to get a C. Not so good, but there you go. My overall AS grades weren't amazing, but I'm somehow in A2, despite my slacking off with the target grades of AAB, but more likely to get BBB or ABB with hard work.

I'm cut for it, just need to not mess up.

i did even worse lol
Epistomology E
philosophy of religion D
text (german ideology) U

Got a E overall, but i kinda realise i didn't revise as much as i should have and didn't really write in the correct method....though they still let me into A2....guess they think i have potential....
I Watched Download 07 on the internet Because I'm A Cheap Bastard and I'm Damn Proud!

Quote by TheUnholy
So, apparently "Britain has a large Pakistani community" is now a source of humour?

I hope your Daily Mail strangles you, to be honest.
#32
Quote by Craigo
I get to stand up at parties, with a drink in my hand, explaining why they have no free will.

It's pretty rad.


I can do the same, but they already know they have no free will ( )
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#33
Quote by Kensai
I can do the same, but they already know they have no free will ( )



Ahh, it's just not sexual anymore with they add consent.
Got a E overall, but i kinda realise i didn't revise as much as i should have and didn't really write in the correct method....though they still let me into A2....guess they think i have potential....

My friend only revised one module as she was scared in that one. It was epistomology. She got an A in that and two U's with the other two she was confident in You really have to know it inside out, but it's pretty easy to grasp. I'm just a lousy writer sometimes.
#34
Quote by fade177
philosophers are people who can't stand ignorance and stupidity, so what makes you think an ignorant joke would be something a philsopher would find funny? that's just dumb trefellin


Fuck! Would it kill you to use a capital letter or a period.


Not capitalizing someone's name is discourteous.
#35
Quote by Craigo


Ahh, it's just not sexual anymore with they add consent.

My friend only revised one module as she was scared in that one. It was epistomology. She got an A in that and two U's with the other two she was confident in You really have to know it inside out, but it's pretty easy to grasp. I'm just a lousy writer sometimes.

Lol, i had a mate who thought she was going to fail the subject, until she got her paper back and realised that although she got a U on the german ideology, she got A's in epistomology and POR
I Watched Download 07 on the internet Because I'm A Cheap Bastard and I'm Damn Proud!

Quote by TheUnholy
So, apparently "Britain has a large Pakistani community" is now a source of humour?

I hope your Daily Mail strangles you, to be honest.
#36
Quote by wiggy1988
who the hell wastes 3-5 years of their lives studying philosophy? In terms of usefulness it ranks somewhere around photography degree's


Who the hell cares? Many degrees are "useless", such as Irish Studies, Music, Drama and many others. But if others enjoy it and wanna spend their money in time, what does it matter?