#1
c4c


crush souls with urethane
color outside the inside lines
inside the outside thighs
she leaps from trees and i'm
supposed to catch her without
bending my knees
support
support
support
beams

i'm on the outside looking through her window
dangling from old reggie's oak

she breaks panes with a bowling ball

i'm on the ground looking up through broken eyes,
laying beside old reggie's oak

scooner street lost its appeal since then
becky (s)ain't my ho no mo'
i don't catch no more
she leaps from shrubberies and i'm
supposed to catch her without
bending my knees
but
i flinch
she falls
i chuckle
she buckles
and sir doctor gets a paycheck
#2
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
- Jed Babbin

Thats a great quote

#3
The polarity of the two main parts of the poem is interesting, and blandly stereotypical male at the same time. But then again, if this was literal, a bowling ball thrown through a window would piss me off as well, and I'd be chuckling, too.

However, structurally and flow-ally, "bowling ball" is as unexpected and out of place as it would be if I were indeed in the tree.

On a second reading, I get a bit of bitterness with "supposed to catch her without bending my knees" as if too much effort is being put into it and therefore some distance is there, or wants to be there, you want it to be there, and so it is created because you are the writer but, but, but there is something else in there, maybe in the subtle sarcastic tone of sir doctor gets a paycheck, a sweet satisfying feeling of contentment, you got what you want, but is that indeed how you pictured it turning out? Did the narrator find what they were looking for? I don't know, but it doesn't seem so.
#5



i like that you're experimenting with style.
this has that on-the-cusp-of-sanity sort of feel to it.


later, it seems to get it's feet underneath itself
but the beginning is derailed with all the outside/inside, inside/outside shiz
and the support business.
it's divisive, that stanza never really connects with me.
maybe you could pull half of that cuteness off in a second stanza
but that much going on, right out of the gate, turned me off.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#6
Ok, the first stanza you had me, and I thought it was absolutely beautiful. But the rest didn't have the same....weave? is that the word I'm looking for? The lines swooped in and out of eachother like a panning effect. Like it fell together at the end, but the first stanza stuck out alot more and almost felt detached from the rest. Yes, I can draw the connection, but it seems to be lacking a point. Usually at the end of your pieces there is some witty statement that makes me go "Oh shit, how did he think of that!?!?".

This is very different from every other piece of yours I have read. But it's been awhile since i've crawled around the forum, so I dont know what the deal is. Hmm...not sure. Comment mine? https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=964189
Quote by ottoavist

i suppose there's a chance
i'm just a litte too shallow to consider
that maybe i've been a little more eager
each day to wake up and take a shower
brush my teeth and smile for the mirror
#7
Quote by ZanasCross
c4c


crush souls with urethane
color outside the inside lines
inside the outside thighs
she leaps from trees and i'm
supposed to catch her without
bending my knees
support
support
support
beams

i'm on the outside looking through her window
dangling from old reggie's oak

she breaks panes with bowling ball

i'm on the ground looking up through broken eyes,
laying beside old reggie's oak

scooner street lost its appeal since then
becky (s)ain't my ho no mo'
i don't catch no more
she leaps from shrubberies and i'm
supposed to catch her without
bending my knees
but
i flinch
she falls
i chuckle
she buckles
and sir doctor gets a paycheck


The outside/inside/inside/outside part, I didn't like a whole lot. It seemed a cheap method to create an effect of which I wasn't fond.

I love the bit about the knees.

The support part, the repetition, was great. I wasn't sure if I liked it at first. I wasn't sure why you really repeated it, and I struggled with that. But I decidedly like it.

Other than that, I enjoyed reading it. But from my critical and objective standpoint, many parts felt disjointed, not that it had to be...jointed. It was something that I noticed, and though I've done it too, I tend to feel that doing it creates an illusion of a good poem (regardless of its actual merit). When you use all these different images, situations, whatever without weaving them, it kind of seems lazy. Or at least that is how I've been feeling lately with all of the poetry that I've been enjoying.

Reading that back to myself, I seem really negative, but believe me I did have a good time reading this poem. It was fun and immensely enjoyable. I did like the way you played with the structure, and with phrasing certain things (she breaks panes with bowling ball).
#8
Thanks everyone so far. This is really just a first attempt at a style I've admired for a long time.

Tip of the hat to Samoo; as he is the one who really demonstrated this sort of style to me. I wanted it to be a bit disorienting, but still tell a story, but still leave some room for the reader to draw something different from it then what I meant. I do need to learn to weave them a bit more. I really appreciate all of your time so far and comments.

If anyone has anything they want me to hit back, Linky please. I'll get to it soon.
#9
Quote by DorkusMalorkus
I wasn't sure why you really repeated it, and I struggled with that.
although Zach may have had more in mind, the repeat appears to be for the visual.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#11
I'm not sure what to think buddy.

I guess I just don't like your performance in this style.

It seems brittle. Like you built a building or made a sword knowing you made the wrong calculations or the wrong casting.
マリ「しあわっせはーあるいってこないだーからあるいってゆっくんだねーん 
いっちにっちいっぽみーかでさんぽ
 さーんぽすすんでにっほさっがるー 
じーんせいはっわんつー!ぱんち・・・


"Success is as dangerous as failure. Hope is as hollow as fear." - from Tao Te Ching

#13
I'm not sure what to say, sir.

It felt you were trying to take a car made of ideas, changing it into a telephone of ideas, and then trying to make it fit into your wallet, and seeing it as a dollar bill.

I'm horrible at explaining.
マリ「しあわっせはーあるいってこないだーからあるいってゆっくんだねーん 
いっちにっちいっぽみーかでさんぽ
 さーんぽすすんでにっほさっがるー 
じーんせいはっわんつー!ぱんち・・・


"Success is as dangerous as failure. Hope is as hollow as fear." - from Tao Te Ching

#15
Quote by culex-knight
I'm not sure what to say, sir.

It felt you were trying to take a car made of ideas, changing it into a telephone of ideas, and then trying to make it fit into your wallet, and seeing it as a dollar bill.

I'm horrible at explaining.

Yes, but that car looks a lot like a dollar bill.
Quote by ottoavist

i suppose there's a chance
i'm just a litte too shallow to consider
that maybe i've been a little more eager
each day to wake up and take a shower
brush my teeth and smile for the mirror
#16
Quote by ZanasCross
So, I tried to cram too much shit into this one, make it say something, and still make it concise, and you felt that I failed at most of this?


Stylistically.

Quote by freshtunes
Yes, but that car looks a lot like a dollar bill.


Eh.
マリ「しあわっせはーあるいってこないだーからあるいってゆっくんだねーん 
いっちにっちいっぽみーかでさんぽ
 さーんぽすすんでにっほさっがるー 
じーんせいはっわんつー!ぱんち・・・


"Success is as dangerous as failure. Hope is as hollow as fear." - from Tao Te Ching

#17
Love the title, just not sure if its right for this. :P
But onto more important things.

A lot of the comments seem to say you're failing at this "style".
I definitely wouldn't say failing. I actually enjoyed it. And you did manage to give it a story but leave it open enough for multiple interpretations.
The thing that bugged me the most in it, really the only thing that truly bugged me is this line:
she breaks panes with bowling ball

It just seems out of step, maybe that was the intention?
I find it stops an otherwise steady rythm. I like the idea just not exactly the execution its really close, I don't know how I'd change it, as I wouldn't be any good at this style :P

Otherwise I think it was a good read.

Whenever you have a second or if your up to it: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=964426
No rush or pressure at all though, cause I don't necessarily like the idea of making people think the only reason I'm criting is to get a crit cause it's not I geniunly enjoy reading and learning from other peoples stuff. I'm just fairly new to the game and could always use a kick in the right direction
▼▲
Quote by shdowfox17
awesome avatar,denn0069!
Quote by Valo
The most truth I've heard in the pit.
ever.
▼▲
#18
I love the rhythm of the entire first stanza, each word is chosen perfectly and has a certain cadence. I like the repetition of "support" because it further supports the idea of support beams. Or that's what I got from it

Following that, you provide beautiful imagery with the words you choose. I'm undecided at the "she breaks..." part, because I like the bluntness of the sentence as it contrasts with the beginning of the piece but I don't like how it sounds like a caveman would say it. If you could meet middle ground somewhere there I'd love it. Especially because the part right afterwords shows a turn in the piece, it would be a perfect way to lead into it if it made more grammatical sense if you get what I mean?

The rest is great, I don't have anything to criticize
Drop another coin in the slot, and I will tell you more...
#19
The inside/outside business was definitely unfriendly to the ears, in terms of flow, sound, and what I can imagine to be a theme. The entire piece had bits of imagery here and there, but nothing really tied together. The middle five lines were the worst. I always get this feeling when stanzas only get two lines in them, that the ideas aren't really fleshed out, and thats what I got here. The bowling ball bit has nothing to bounce off of, so it's hard for me to get much off of it.

I can understand the disoriented feel your trying to display, and you did succeed at it. In fact, the piece is far from unworkable. But it loses unity. Much of your disorientation comes from you switching subjects every stanza. Its her, than you, than her, than you, then recollection. But If you removed one character from the storyline, I still can't see some of these images working out, such as the bowling ball or Reggies oak. I think that the stanza's themselves can be incomplete, but their partner images must continue from where they left of.

Now, you did have an image that was solid: her jumping and you catching her (or failing to). That's a large portion of the piece, but its signifigance is somewhat muddled. You definitely hinted at the direction with the last line, I just wish there was more for it to play off of. I feel that this piece had something, but lost its grip trying to nail the style. As I said, you hit the style, but it still needs more meat.
Last edited by Ninjamonkey767 at Sep 24, 2008,
#20
Thanks so far everyone.

For the record, Bowling balls are made of Urethane, that was supposed to be a bit to tie the bowling ball together. Also, despite the fact that no one really seems to have picked up on what I had meant when I wrote this; the guy in the tree is a peeping tom, the bowling ball is her noticing it and trying to get rid of him, the reggie's oak is a place that my friends and I used to meet before school back home, it was on scooner street, the knees thing was the rationalization of the relationship by the peeping tom, him thinking that he would be there to catch her when she falls from her perch; and then the second stanza was a reverse in his thinking and him rationalizing why he was still in control of the relationship, because he would let her die now.


At least that's what I had in mind. It's a partially true story that I saw on the news 3-4 years ago, and just ran with.
#21
^ That's what I got from it. I know it's no use in me saying that now because I didn't post beforehand, by ya know...

I enjoyed this. Good, good, good. Flow broke a bit in a place or two but it's not beyond you to figure them out.

There's only one thing we can do to thwart the plot of these albino shape-shifting lizard BITCHES!
#22
what i enjoyed most about this piece, wasn't the content itself, but the change in style you've applied here. you made it rhyme very well, in turn making it very enjoyable to read. i really liked your use of line breaks here as well.
not to mention, for me, it was a breath of fresh air from your normal subject matter.

there's not a whole lot i can contribute now, except maybe echo some of the previous 19 comments, lol.
good job, Zach.
off subject - i still say my favorite piece from you though, would have to be pt. 1 of the "physics equation?", i don't remember the title...but you should write like that more often man.
you'd be my favorite writer on here if that were the case.
There's a road that leads to the end of all suffering. You should take it.


- Jericho Caine


secret, aaaaagent maaan.
secret, aaaaagent maaan.
#23
The first stanza was excellent, the rest began to lose it. After the rhythm you started with I wasn't prepared for what proceeded, which is why it took me 5 or so reads before I began to enjoy it. The last stanza was very dense (in the physical usage of the word) in that things like the (s), the repetition of catch, and the sudden change in tone with ho no mo' bogged it down quite a bit. Unlike the middle section, I dislike it more with every read. The first time through I could except easily enough the reference to her being a saint, but now the setup just comes across as an annoying distraction, especially with the tone shift immediately after. The last few lines picked up again and ended nicely (though without your normal pop).

All and all, with the first stanza it had potential to be awesome, but it worked its way down to just being good. You can return the crit on a random if you want.
On the eight day we spoke back...

let there be sound.
#24
This was far superior to your recent work. I think this is a new shining beam from you. You've gone away from battering me with distaste about soceities failings and such (I'm not saying thats a bad thing, I just think you did way too much) and lunged into more emotional and down to earth pieces. It contained your trademark word usage and witty humour, but it also had humanity centered within, which your previous pieces seriously lacked, in my opinion. This was a really good read, mate.

- "color outside the inside lines
inside the outside thighs" - I love the way these lines collide with each other; children drawing and woman spreading, there the images I can gather.

- "she leaps from trees and i'm
supposed to catch her without
bending my knees" - The line breaks here and general flow was a bit cubbersome, when it should of been more free-flowing, depicting someone falling.

In your last verse, I did become a little bit confused, I need to re-read it a few more times, which I'm not used to you with you. Recently, I've just read it once and just said I didn't really like it. Now, not only do I want to read this over and over, but I need to. A perfect balance and neccesity and desire.

Digitally Clean
#25
took a while to work out the subject matter, and although i dislike obvious lyrics i think when it's almost impossible to even work out the subject matter it slightly removes the point of writing lyrics/poetry.

other than that i think it's realy great and more original than anything i have heard on radio etc. i would be very intesereted to see how you fit this to music (not rli on point but o well lol) but other than that keep the lyrics flowing slightly more and you're on for a winner
#26
Hey Zach. I didn't read other comments.

But I like this a lot. The opening stanza, especially. Lines 4-9 are something I wish I would have written. I didn't get "beams".

I didn't really like the chuckle/buckle part. Everything in between was alright, but jumpy. I feel you're lacking a line or two to wrap it all up together.
I wish I could say I found the ending effective, but it sadly ain't the case. It was only re-stating something obvious to me ; I'd change it to something else. whatever punchy would do, except if you have some personal meaning with "sir doctor", which could very well be the case.

Take care.
#27
Quote by ZanasCross
c4c

Ahh sorry it took so long for me to get to this i... anyway let's get started.

crush souls with urethane
color outside the inside lines
inside the outside thighs
she leaps from trees and i'm
supposed to catch her without
bending my knees
support
support
support
beams

This was memorable. You seemed to have constructed your ideas quite fluidly instead of scribbling ideas in different layers. The three repetitions of support was effective and I felt that it really helps the reader keep his train of thought.

i'm on the outside looking through her window
dangling from old reggie's oak

she breaks panes with a bowling ball

i'm on the ground looking up through broken eyes,
laying beside old reggie's oak

This was excellent, to say the least. You've really found that spark within yourself that I think was lacking, relatively. You failed to push yourself and in the end all the reader got were abstract messages with no real "Saw". It felt to hit as well as it was implying, but now i think you're coming deep within yourself and obtaining that "Saw".

scooner street lost its appeal since then
becky (s)ain't my ho no mo' (Does this really work?)
i don't catch no more
she leaps from shrubberies and i'm
supposed to catch her without
bending my knees
but
i flinch
she falls
i chuckle
she buckles
and sir doctor gets a paycheck


This showed a good amount of originality and self-conscious. It had great flow and nothing felt hindered or, dare I say, premature. Not only with this final stanza but It didn't feel premature, at all, in my sense. Some of your previous pieces felt some what "premature" in the sense that you know what you're trying to say, what meaning you're trying to convey and the general synopsis of the poem but yet you don't know how to start it or, even, how to end it. I think pieces such as "Prayer" had great potential, potential that you just didn't know what direction to take to next. That's just my general view but I got to say that this felt more complete, in itself and not missing that little special "something" or spark.


Good work mate
#28
Quote by ZanasCross
c4c


crush souls with urethane
color outside the inside lines
inside the outside thighs
what? any image this conjures is either contradicted or mere nonsense. urethane is a empty word, it is cold, unfeeling and has few connotations that make using it worthwhile, in my humble opinion of course. outside and inside lines just makes me think you, as the author, has not a clue what he is actually talking about and is using a play on words gimmick to distract me from that fact. regardless of meaning, if these three lines were abolished from this poem it would already become clearer, more concrete, and better, without much, if any sacrifice in terms of content.
she leaps from trees and i'm
supposed to catch her without
bending my knees
okay. who is the she? who are you? cliche male? disembodied female? what makes you two special. what makes the experience(s) special. I'm busy, I've been a teenager, I don't have the desire or time to decipher or care about the convuluted meanings and poorly defined characters you've put in front of me.
support
support
support
beams
what? building metaphor, I get it, great. why the repetition. is it for repetitions sake? is it just to create a physical image with words (ala shape poetry)? if so then you are in the wrong buisiness as the average reader won't respond to shitty gimmicks like a mere three line emphatic (though severely unexplained) repetiton, I should know, I've tried.

i'm on the outside looking through her window
dangling from old reggie's oak
third character unexplained. you are already alluding to a previous stanza in the piece (using outside) even though very little is concrete in my mind here. This piece has no context and therefore little individuality (in the experience of the piece, not the piece itself). Dangling is an incredibly ambiguous word. I don't know why you chose it (as the author and me as an average reader) and I really want to know. Are you hanging? Are you dead? why are you dead? I have so many questions and I fear next to no answers.

she breaks panes with a bowling ball
if I read this line, and I was judging this poem for publication in my literary magazine I would put this piece away right now. I just don't know what's going on. so many. weightless. incongruable. image image. words.

i'm on the ground looking up through broken eyes,
laying beside old reggie's oak
okay. I dont know any of the people involved, I dont know any of the places involved, I don't know why you had to start with those three terribly convuluted lines, and I'm just confused. the best guess on experience being described here is that the narrator is black and the girl is white and the narrator is writing posthumously after being lynched. thats all I got.

scooner street lost its appeal since then
why wait till now to get a place name? why not start the poem here? why did the previous four stanza's exist?
becky (s)ain't my ho no mo'
why the **** did you put the 's' in parentheses? seriously, that's as bad as writing a piece in code. it's gimmicked, cheap, overplayed, and devalues everything else you've written in the piece before it. it's like saying, "oh yeah, that other stuff is important, but this silly turn of phrase is so my more so, I mean really, look at it, do you see it? yeah? my turn of phrase by adding a letter?" I have used it a lot and I hate myself for doing it so much. it's just annoying, takes me out of the piece, and completely, completely, unnecesary. You can easily portray the same concept a million times better. (didnt mean to yell, but i find it really upsetting )
i don't catch no more
she leaps from shrubberies and i'm
supposed to catch her without
bending my knees
but
i flinch
she falls
i chuckle
she buckles
okay. so what does this mean for the character? what does this mean for anyone? why should I take anything out of this? it didnt strike me as relatable or anything that I can be sympathetic with. it didnt strike me as a piece of history, past or present, it didnt even strike me as something that the author cared about writing. I just thought this was a bad style laden with gimmicks superimposed on an empty experience (notice what is superimposed on what).
and sir doctor gets a paycheck
this line just didnt make any sense and came out of left field. I'm sure it means something, but at this point in the piece I frankly dont care.


this is the harshest crit I've given in a year or two but I know you won't take any of this personally. You are such a talented writer but very little of what you write seems to tell the audience about how you see the world or what makes you or your beliefs special. I dunno. I'll stew on it.

always reading,
Dylan.

#29
Thanks everyone.

Dylan: this is one of the few pieces where I actually took the time to choose every word with a purpose instead of just writing with a bigger idea in mind. To me, its all painfully obvious. Why each image is there, why each character is left without a definite face, why I take so long to name the place. Obviously you didn't get it (which is how I feel with about 95% of your work, so don't feel bad, lol). I'm amazed you still call me talented after how many times you've crushed my spirits . If you care, I can try to explain my thought process behind certain words like Urethane, if not, no worries. It's always appreciated. Thanks, love.

Mat: Great to see you back. Thanks for the words mate, drop me a link if you post anything.

Fred/Dan: Thanks mates, glad I've finally started striking some chords again. I think I got lost in my message for a while there and sort of lost where I was heading.