#1
Hey everyone, so I finally got around to writing another song after bein so lazy haha. I've been workin on this one off and on for the past 2 months and I'm pretty happy with it. The only thing I'm not quite sure of is if it sounds good as one song or if I should make it into 2 so yeah, I'd appreciate some input on that and I'll do c4c too when I get the chance
Attachments:
The great prophecy.zip
Last edited by zakatak9389 at Sep 24, 2008,
#2
...this won't be as helpful as I'd like it to be for you... but: I liked it all except for the final outro solo... it was too much of a mood swinger and it came in a little too suddenly. Anyway, I'll see if I can come back later and write a better crit.
#3
Amazing yet again
I do think the transition into the pre-chorus could be a bit smoother, it IS smooth, but could be better haha
Also the rhythm guitar should be a little quieter during the piano breakdown, it kinda takes away from the lower notes of the piano
Chorus III was dope hah, one of my fav parts
Just 2 little nit-picky things i noticed, otherwise brilliant shit

ps: actually...forget about the piano breakdown stuff, i was just sitting at a weird angle and couldn't hear it that good lol, it's fine now
Last edited by .Joker. at Sep 24, 2008,
#4
zak, another masterpiece; you just keep pumping them out - it's amazing, you sure know how to make my ears orgasm. The only problem I had with it; was I think the key change was a bit iffy; it took me like a bar to actually get into it. Too me this song could work better as 2 different songs; but it still works as one really well!

zack you made my week
#5
Great stuff ! Reminds me a bit of the band Epicurean, in the sense that it is heavily symphonic/key laden prog metal/core

It shows you have the theoretical/technical background down, so no arguments necessary on that front. Well, maybe a minor thing I noticed is that the section entitled "key-change" didn't really felt like a key change at all, it blends too much together in a sense of same-ness (which may be the result of some arrangement flaws that I'll talk about later), and some notes in the overlying lead felt rather 'off'

The real issue I have here is that the structure of the song is not good. Don't get me wrong here: The individual parts itself are superb, it's just the way they're put together that rubs me the wrong way. Let me clarify: What you have here is basically a great collection of various "epic" parts. Now, throwing them all together one after another is a poor decision. Most bands do save up their epic climaxes (as outros, for example) for a reason - and you brought more epic parts to the table here in a song than most bands do over the course of one whole album - the issue here is 'Dynamics'. The conscious order in which parts of various intensity levels are presented. Why is that so important ? Directon and Engagement ! Having quiet parts before loud parts will make your loud parts feel much louder, having slow parts before fast parts will make your fast parts feel much faster, having soft parts before hard parts will make your harder parts punch much more.. you get the idea. The flipside of the coin is that if your whole song is basically on the same intensity level, the listener will have no 'standout' parts and individual climaxes to orient with, thus the song loses direction and listening over a longer period creates fatigue. It is also much apparent in the fact that you basically used the same half time drum rhythm (not necessarily pattern, but general rhythm) throughought the whole piece.

Now here's what I would do. Re-assemble this with only the 'best' epic parts you got, and expand more on less climatic riffs you haven't brought to the table yet (besides from the verseriff). The piece will sound much more focused. Keep it up !
Last edited by Ailes at Sep 24, 2008,
#6
Well... There were certainly moments of brilliance.

My major issues with it: The outro solo comes out of nowhere. Even a simple snare roll or something of the sort would make the transition better. The solo itself also seemed like you couldnt decide what you wanted to do with it. It had moments that were totally awesome, but no real flow to it until the end.

The chugging really started to grate on me by the end; some of it was cool, but on the whole it bored me. Parts of the song were repetitive as well, especially towards the end (the octave chord progression, etc).

And the bass was non-existent; save one time I think I heard it.

My favorite parts:
The main melody you used was fantastic, the piano breakdown was interesting, and the end of the outro solo was fantastic. The end of the second verse (the chug one) was cool, but the beginning made me think of Cryptopsy's The Unspoken King, which is far from a good thing. The variations on the melodies were also cool, and the descending part of the tremolo lick was strikingly classical (which caught me right away).

Not one of my favorites from you, on the whole. Parts of it were excellent, parts didnt really do it for me.
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#7
^thanks a lot for all the advice guys! I can really understand where you guys are coming from about the song bein kind of a mess though. I really did just write a bunch of riffs that I really liked and kinda rushed putting them all together just so I could have another song finally haha.

I also really understand where you're comin from ailes, because I usually have more dynamics in my songs, with slower parts and faster parts and clean interludes and whatnot, but with this one, I kinda just wanted a more intense song, with no acoustic stuff for once, and I guess it didn't really work out too good for me haha. But yeah, I guess this ones a flop, so hopefully my next songs'll be better lol
#8
Quote by zakatak9389
But yeah, I guess this ones a flop


Dude. Absolutely not. My friend and I just listened, and we both agreed that it was truly the most glorious piece of music either of us had heard in a long time. It was like the musical manifestation of epicness. If every song was a planet, yours would be the Death Star.

I guess I'm not the most musically talented person, because I have no real helpful criticism for you, except that the change of key/scale/whatever at measure 318 was very abrupt.

But truly, this song was absolutely amazing. You did an incredible job.
#9
awesome song man , nice to see you playing with time sigs now, loved the breakdown riff with the arps at the end. also loved the sweeping section, and the section named breakdown, very human abstract
#10
I was like wow! i cant wait to hear the solo. nice going keep it up 10/10
#11

I also really understand where you're comin from ailes, because I usually have more dynamics in my songs, with slower parts and faster parts and clean interludes and whatnot, but with this one, I kinda just wanted a more intense song, with no acoustic stuff for once, and I guess it didn't really work out too good for me haha. But yeah, I guess this ones a flop, so hopefully my next songs'll be better lol


Hey, chill! I said the parts itself were absolutely excellent, it's rather the order and amount in which you present them. Sometimes a song definetly needs more melodic epic parts, and I'm usually the first to demand them, but in the other extreme it can become almost suffocatingly thick, and some more 'straight' verses or dynamic breathing room will help. Don't give up on this thing, and I don't necessarily mean 'putting in acoustic breaks' or something - you yourself said you considered making it in several parts, and I couldn't agree more. What I think is that this right here is a formidable goldmine of epic outros and climaxes which you can draw upon to include and rearrange in future songs. Btbam, PtH, and other a-level bands of progressive, technical and melodic metalcore do it the same way and you can gain many ideas there on how to successfully order the segments to make the song a satisfying, dynamic experience that always keeps the listener on his toes and engaged. Hey, if you wanted to make the song the way it is now and like it, more power to you, as you should only be doing what you really feel and like. But when I feel you yourself are somewhat unsure or apprehensive, I think I gave constructive pointers. This doesn't mean putting even more and more stuff into it, hell, often times it works if you rather strip down some stuff. And when you talk about "intensity", I think this doesn't translate best into having an ultra-thick arrangement almost suffocating you for several minutes. Again, my experience on song dynamics is this: If you keep the same high amount of intensity and thickness for too long, the listener will accustom and not really feel it anymore, or rather, it becomes downright grating. Now, dynamics don't necessarily mean stripping down to just acoustics and stuff. Take for example your verse breakstyle riff. Excellent, and I wish we had more of that and treated the epic standout parts for what they are - epic standout parts. When you play them all the time, don't be surprised that they don't stand out anymore. Instead, you almost flipped the 'natural order', as you focused only on broad epic parts and the verses felt almost attached as an afterthought instead as of an integral part of the song. So, varying intensity doesn't have to mean going all limp, it rather means cutting back on some of the overbearing arrangement sometimes. I mean, come on, fat chords plus fat lead melody plus fat symphony ? That stuff is definetly cool for a climax part or an intro/outro, but shouldn't dominate a song all the way through
#12
Quote by zakatak9389
^thanks a lot for all the advice guys! I can really understand where you guys are coming from about the song bein kind of a mess though. I really did just write a bunch of riffs that I really liked and kinda rushed putting them all together just so I could have another song finally haha.

I also really understand where you're comin from ailes, because I usually have more dynamics in my songs, with slower parts and faster parts and clean interludes and whatnot, but with this one, I kinda just wanted a more intense song, with no acoustic stuff for once, and I guess it didn't really work out too good for me haha. But yeah, I guess this ones a flop, so hopefully my next songs'll be better lol


Hey man! Don't just chuck this one away! I ****ing loved this song. I disagree with the other comments, i think it flowed brilliantly. The whole song was pretty ****in intense and i was diggin it.
#13
Quote by Ailes
Hey, chill! I said the parts itself were absolutely excellent, it's rather the order and amount in which you present them. Sometimes a song definetly needs more melodic epic parts, and I'm usually the first to demand them, but in the other extreme it can become almost suffocatingly thick, and some more 'straight' verses or dynamic breathing room will help. Don't give up on this thing, and I don't necessarily mean 'putting in acoustic breaks' or something - you yourself said you considered making it in several parts, and I couldn't agree more. What I think is that this right here is a formidable goldmine of epic outros and climaxes which you can draw upon to include and rearrange in future songs. Btbam, PtH, and other a-level bands of progressive, technical and melodic metalcore do it the same way and you can gain many ideas there on how to successfully order the segments to make the song a satisfying, dynamic experience that always keeps the listener on his toes and engaged. Hey, if you wanted to make the song the way it is now and like it, more power to you, as you should only be doing what you really feel and like. But when I feel you yourself are somewhat unsure or apprehensive, I think I gave constructive pointers. This doesn't mean putting even more and more stuff into it, hell, often times it works if you rather strip down some stuff. And when you talk about "intensity", I think this doesn't translate best into having an ultra-thick arrangement almost suffocating you for several minutes. Again, my experience on song dynamics is this: If you keep the same high amount of intensity and thickness for too long, the listener will accustom and not really feel it anymore, or rather, it becomes downright grating. Now, dynamics don't necessarily mean stripping down to just acoustics and stuff. Take for example your verse breakstyle riff. Excellent, and I wish we had more of that and treated the epic standout parts for what they are - epic standout parts. When you play them all the time, don't be surprised that they don't stand out anymore. Instead, you almost flipped the 'natural order', as you focused only on broad epic parts and the verses felt almost attached as an afterthought instead as of an integral part of the song. So, varying intensity doesn't have to mean going all limp, it rather means cutting back on some of the overbearing arrangement sometimes. I mean, come on, fat chords plus fat lead melody plus fat symphony ? That stuff is definetly cool for a climax part or an intro/outro, but shouldn't dominate a song all the way through


haha, thanks again man, I really appreciate your input. But yeah, I think I'm gonna go through and re-arrange everything, cuz I totally understand what you mean about the songs constant intensity, and now that I listen to it again, I know I could condense it down a lot more and have everything a bit more focused, so the sections are more effective in grabbing and holding the listeners attention. I also think I just wanna rearrange it for a 7 string too, haha. Thanks for the kind words man, I was actually about to just throw it out, but now you've changed my mind

and thanks to everyone else too, I really appreciate the positive feedback
#14
I wont even crit it, obviously it is fantastic and flawless...

But, it seems that you are getting into some kind of comfort zone or something. Most of your songs have a similar structure, in which you have several parts and you repeat them interchangeably (sp?), etc...
Don't take this as a bad crit, your songs are f***ing great, maybe too much. But most of your songs fall into the harcore-metal range (or whatever it is called), maybe you could experiment with other sounds or song structure, I dunno.
Of course, only if you want, cause if you keep making these kind of songs they will still sound great, and I would still listen to them...
#16
the only thing about this one is that it just doesn't seem quite as focussed as your other songs. it's still awesome though, and you're obviously at the stage where you're trying to incorporate new stuff (time sigs, key changes etc) into your writing so it's always going to be difficult. It's another brilliant song though mate, I would give almost anything to have your riff-writing ability! The song is very mature and some of the melodies (the chorus for example) are just fantastic whilst the piano breakdown is genius. With regard to the 'lack of dynamics' some people have been talking about, I honestly don't think it's a big factor as this song doesn't really need the acoustic stuff you usually incorporate - it's just very in-your-face and aggressive.

Keep them coming though, always love listening to your stuff (for c4c I finally finished the one I sent you a while back so if you wouldn't mind having a look the link's in my sig)
#18
Well I've just got to say Zak, that you are nothing short of a genius. This is an absolutely fantastic composition from start to finish. I wish I could expand on this but I'd be repeating myself. Pity you aren't composing melodic metal any more but your new stuff is just as good
#20
I adore how smoothly and seemlessly the intro flowed in to the 'major melody' section, along with all the riff you've presented us with in this little slice of melodic epic heaven.

Though I do agree with Ailes on this one. It was rather dense in term of epic, and it 'could do with being dished out more sparingly. However this it a great stand alone song and would almost certainly work in a professional world. Don't worry about reordering this piece unless you are absolutely sure that you can make it ten times better than it already is (but its so good already I can't see it happening haha :P )

I loved your use of time sig changes, not at all over powering, and great for adding interest in the song... just the way they should be used in this kind of music. I haven't heard a lot of your stuff for a looong time now but, from what I gather, you are branching out, and for that I commend you my friend good work.

The only things that really bug me are how the sections with constant double bass seem to drag a bit too much for my liking and those... 'interesting' key changes. The first one was ten times more successful than that last simple jump up a few keys, but even with that one you didn't seem to fully utilise the power of the sweeping to modulate much more convincingly. They are your friends. But then again you're such an established composer in my eyes that you probably already know that anyway.

One final piece of praise on this... I'm in love with your breakdowns. Especially the piano breakdown, that one was simply gorgeous. If i'm not mistaken you're a pianist, or if I'm wrong you would make a damn good one if you want to. the sofistication of composition in the keys was brilliant in my opinion.


Although its hardly worthy, would you mind taking a look? Its not exactly anything like this, but it seems like your the right person to ask for advice on it at the moment in time.
LINK! https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1014290
#22
that was Sublime. Man you really know how to write, especially on the lead front, there were so many different techniques all thrown into one delightful package, and all i can do is wish i cud play solos like that (the sweeps come straight to mind ).
There's nowhere i can fault it, its just epic all the way through. Real sweet job man,
10/10
#24
nice job man, it's all nicely written, could you crit mine, the story of the black knight, and maybe the others i've written, just click my name
#25
after giving it a good listen 3 times in full, only one word has to be mention

WOW! for a long song it didn't feel that long. just amazing. the piano breakdown was intense! reminded my of Sister Charliten by Bleeding Through.

really was amazing mate! from some of the other work i have heard of yours am i hearing a concept album?
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