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#1
Every culture throughout history has had its fair share of patriots, and I was wondering if this is true of the UG community. Do you believe your culture is the best (ethnoexceptionalism)? Do you judge other cultures based upon your own values (ethnocentrism)? Or do you see your culture as equal to all others, and judge other cultures in an unbiased way (cultural relativism)?

This is an experiment for my sociology class, and I would appreciate it if you were to support why you feel the way you do about your culture and the cultures of others.

Thanks.
#3
I'm a UG patriot.
DEATH TO 4CHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111one
Catch me,
heal me,
Lift me back up to the Sun
I choose to live
#4
I think the whole idea of nationalist pride is stupid.

It's like closet racism.
#5
When you say "your own values" does that mean the values of your culture or your own personal values?

I judge everything on my own values, I'm critical of all cultures.
#6
Quote by Firenze
I'm a UG patriot.
DEATH TO 4CHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111one


UG is basically full of old 4chan memes

and my culture is cool
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#7
Quote by freedoms_stain
When you say "your own values" does that mean the values of your culture or your own personal values?

I judge everything on my own values, I'm critical of all cultures.


Your values are influenced by your culture(s) and the subculture(s) you claim to belong to, so it's both.
#8
Quote by Archaon
I think the whole idea of nationalist pride is stupid.

It's like closet racism.


I disagree, being proud of your own country makes you a nationalist, disliking others makes you an idiot, theres a definate difference.
#9
I hate my culture. Nothing but rampant commercialism and materialist values. No worth placed on morals whatsoever in spite of Christianity being unwillingly shoved down the throats of everyone who's just trying to mind their own damn business. Gotta love the good ol' US of A.
#10
Quote by madbasslover
I hate my culture. Nothing but rampant commercialism and materialist values. No worth placed on morals whatsoever in spite of Christianity being unwillingly shoved down the throats of everyone who's just trying to mind their own damn business. Gotta love the good ol' US of A.

but you have big trucks and hamburgers!
#11
I think I can quite definitively say, my culture is better than everyone elses.
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#12
Quote by badfish0902
Your values are influenced by your culture(s) and the subculture(s) you claim to belong to, so it's both.
Of course, but the values of your culture can turn you away from those values, if you get me, so your own values may not really match your cultural values at all.
#13
The Sun never sets on the British Empire. Oh yeah. Britain > the Universe.
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#14
One is feeling awfully didactic tonight, isn't one?
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#15
Quote by madbasslover
I hate my culture. Nothing but rampant commercialism and materialist values. No worth placed on morals whatsoever in spite of Christianity being unwillingly shoved down the throats of everyone who's just trying to mind their own damn business. Gotta love the good ol' US of A.


I see where you are coming from, but I don't hate my culture personally. I am just critical of all norms, values and whatnot. I agree about religion and commodity fetishism, but honestly I am more disturbed by the rampant sexism and rigidity of economic oppurtunity within the lower and middle class. It's revolting in a way.
#16
Your culture is what you make of the world, not what the world makes of you.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#17
The whole point of culture is to be exclusive and arrogant. Everyone that identifies themselves with a nationality or culture believes they are the best. This worked really well 400 years ago when nations were composed of only one ethnicity, as a king/noble of that ethnicity could control them well.
Nowadays identifying yourself with a culture or nationality is stupid, pointless and damaging to contemporary western society, which based on individuality, multiculturalism (more than 99% of americans, canadians and australians are born of imigrants) and equality. It would be against the ideals of our goverments for anyone to adopt the archaic views of ethnicity
Quote by Archaon
I think the whole idea of nationalist pride is stupid.

It's like closet racism.
No, its logical and morally correct.
#18
Quote by rigiddigits
I think other cultures are better than mine. What does that make me?


Humble.
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#19
Quote by demonofthenight
The whole point of culture is to be exclusive and arrogant. Everyone that identifies themselves with a nationality or culture believes they are the best. This worked really well 400 years ago when nations were composed of only one ethnicity, as a king/noble of that ethnicity could control them well.
Nowadays identifying yourself with a culture or nationality is stupid, pointless and damaging to contemporary western society, which based on individuality, multiculturalism (more than 99% of americans, canadians and australians are born of imigrants) and equality. It would be against the ideals of our goverments for anyone to adopt the archaic views of ethnicityNo, its logical and morally correct.


Statism, amicus mi?
#20
Quote by demonofthenight
No, its logical and morally correct.


How is it morally correct?


I am not morally obliged to be proud of the territory which constitutes a 'nation' in which I was born.
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#21
Quote by aaciseric
I disagree, being proud of your own country makes you a nationalist, disliking others makes you an idiot, theres a definate difference.

What is pride if not giving yourself reasons to like your kind more than others? It's a comment on your success over others.

Essentially: I'm better than you.

To demonofthenight:
If by logical and morally correct you mean that it's natural, then yeah. I still think it's a bit of a problem.

Be proud for yourself, not for someone in ancient history that shares the same nationality. It just seems like such a cop-out method of not achieving your own potential.
#22
As I've said many times and will say many times again, nationalism sucks. Let it go.
Quote by denizenz
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#23
Quote by cagnius
How is it morally correct?


I am not morally obliged to be proud of the territory which constitutes a 'nation' in which I was born.
Lets pretend if everyone in your beautifull province of scotland became nationalistic and was independant (hypothetics FTW). You all believed scotland was for the scots, no one else. Why should the great scottish nation care about anyone thats not scottish? So what would the nationalistic scottish nation do, first they'll try to deport anyone thats not scottish. Failing that, they'll make the non-scots lives miserable and grant privilidges to the scots. This will cause the scots to become the upper and middle class of society, which is fine for the scots, but what about those thousands of people that arent scottish? Well, because your whole nation is nationalistic and seeing as they're not scots, no-one gives a shit about them.

We've seen this before in history. It was common practise among kingdoms before the industrial revolution, it should not be common among western goverments

EDIT:
I disagree, being proud of your own country makes you a nationalist, disliking others makes you an idiot, theres a definate difference.
No there isnt. Nationalistic people usually grant concessions of some sort for people of their own ethnicity.
Treating people differently in accordance to race is racist. Racism is caused by identifying oneself to a race. Identifying oneself with a race is nationalistic. DEAL WITH IT.
Last edited by demonofthenight at Sep 26, 2008,
#25
Quote by demonofthenight
Lets pretend if everyone in your beautifull province of scotland became nationalistic and was independant (hypothetics FTW). You all believed scotland was for the scots, no one else. Why should the great scottish nation care about anyone thats not scottish? So what would the nationalistic scottish nation do, first they'll try to deport anyone thats not scottish. Failing that, they'll make the non-scots lives miserable and grant privilidges to the scots. This will cause the scots to become the upper and middle class of society, which is fine for the scots, but what about those thousands of people that arent scottish? Well, because your whole nation is nationalistic and seeing as they're not scots, no-one gives a shit about them.

We've seen this before in history. It was common practise among kingdoms before the industrial revolution, it should not be common among western goverments
I missed the bit where you explained how any of that was objectively morally correct. I'm not being a douche, could you outline it a little more clearly please?
#26
Quote by cam_sampbell
UG is basically full of old 4chan memes

and my culture is cool


It didn't used to be...

Catch me,
heal me,
Lift me back up to the Sun
I choose to live
#27
Quote by cagnius
For one, your waxing lyrical is based upon an empirical vacuum.
Not... sure.... if .... you're trying to insult me
Quote by cagnius
It doesn't take into account international obligations (which are legally and morally binding), nor does it take into account the need for import/export of goods/services.
The Soviet Union under stalin, the ottoman empire, the nazist regime and moaist china all did fine.


Quote by cagnius
Second, to me it strengthens my argument: there is no moral need to be patriotic.

I am in no way bound to be proud of my nation or its culture.
Nor should you be. What I'm trying to say is: Nationalism is archaic and BAD. To disagree with Nationalism is GOOD, it promotes equality which is also GOOD.
#28
Quote by demonofthenight
What I'm trying to say is: Nationalism is archaic and BAD. To disagree with Nationalism is GOOD, it promotes equality which is also GOOD.
But...how can pride/patriotism be said to be right OR wrong then?
#29
I love my culture.
''Technological advancements are like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal.'' - Albert Einstein
#30
Quote by rigiddigits
But...how can pride/patriotism be said to be right OR wrong then?
Because the line between pride/patriotism and fanatically nationalistic is way too thin.
#32
Quote by Archaon
I think the whole idea of nationalist pride is stupid. It's like closet racism.
Quote by demonofthenight
No, its logical and morally correct.
Quote by demonofthenight
Because the line between pride/patriotism and fanatically nationalistic is way too thin.
...

Say if I wanted to lead a morally correct life. How would I be obligated in any way to have pride in my country of birth, or not to for that matter? I just don't see how morality features in that. It may be an intuitive feeling for some people, but that doesn't mean that anything good will come out of it.

We're probably on the same side of the argument; it's just me not getting it.
Last edited by rigiddigits at Sep 26, 2008,
#33
Quote by rigiddigits
...

Say if I wanted to lead a morally correct life. How would I be obligated in any way to have pride in my country of birth, or not to for that matter? I just don't see how morality features in that. It may be an intuitive feeling for some people, but that doesn't mean that anything good will come out of it.

We're probably on the same side of the argument; it's just me not getting it.
I was saying Archaons view was morally correct. I'm not deliberatly contradicting myself
#34
Quote by Archaon
I think the whole idea of nationalist pride is stupid.

It's like closet racism.

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#35
Quote by demonofthenight
Not... sure.... if .... you're trying to insult me.


I'm not.

Nor should you be. What I'm trying to say is: Nationalism is archaic and BAD. To disagree with Nationalism is GOOD, it promotes equality which is also GOOD.


So we're agreeing? Fantastic.
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#36
Quote by demonofthenight
I was saying Archaons view was morally correct. I'm not deliberatly contradicting myself
o.O That's alright then.
#37
I don't have a culture I can identify with, since I'm 1/4 British, 1/4 Italian, 1/4 Spanish, 1/4 Pueblo indian. So I guess I'm... American?
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#38
Quote by MortifiedLizard
I don't have a culture I can identify with, since I'm 1/4 British, 1/4 Italian, 1/4 Spanish, 1/4 Pueblo indian. So I guess I'm... American?

your casserole
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#39
Quote by Archaon
I think the whole idea of nationalist pride is stupid.

It's like closet racism.

Same with me. You can be proud of your own achievements, but that's about it. Being born in a particular place doesn't make you any special.
EDIT: I have not read the whole discussion about this national pride thing. Forgive me for being ignorant.

I am very picky about what parts of the local culture I accept as my own. I'm generally into off-culture, but not because I'm generally against the mainstream, but rather because I find it way more entertaining.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Sep 26, 2008,
#40
i'm a Nazi

bow down to me

>_>
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