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#1
Hey there UG I have a few questions reguarding these guitars...

1) Whats the build Quality like?
2) Do they have a "Knock off" Tone or sound at all?
3) Are they REALLY as good as people make them out to be?

Many Thanks in advance.
My Gear:
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Fender MIM Stratocaster
Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Epiphone G-400
Cheap acoustic


Roland Cube 30X
USA Big Muff PI
Dunlop Crybaby Wah GCB-95
#2
I owned a Tokai Strat back in the 80's. At that time it was as good, maybe a little better/worse then what the Fender 57 Reissue was at the time - this was about 1986/87.

I bought it because it was cheaper and I did not have the money for a Fender.

I sold it to buy a refinished Pre-CBS Strat - which was about 4000x better then the Tokai.

A couple years ago I bought a new one and I can tell you they are nothing like they were. Now they are not even close to what a USA RI Fender is. They are resting on a name.

Now many people are going to rave about how good they are, I'm sure. But I am telling you this as someone who has actually owned a new one, an old one and the guitars they copy.

Save your money.
#3
New member here. I own old/new Tokais and Fenders. I judge each guitar by itself.

I love the old Tokais a lot. The key, to me, with Tokais is to make sure you purchase their highest grade ....... which is MIJ. MIK and MIC are going to be reasonably made guitars but not the best grade. Stick with MIJ's.
#4
There are 2 kinds of Tokai.
The MIK are pretty much better than most knockoffs nowadays, but nowhere near what the old ones were.

The MIJ are easily as good as the originals; look, sound and feel like them, so YES, they're as good as people say.
- Fender American Standard Ash Telecaster w/ DiMarzio Chopper T & Twang King
- Alhambra 5P
- Laney Lionheart L5T-112
- Line 6 POD XT
- Suhr Shiba Drive
- MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay
- Dunlop Cry Baby
#5
^ agreed, f5joe, you want to ideally stick to MIJ.

i've got an '84 tokai goldstar strat which i got off ebay. it's excellent. it's comparing apples to oranges, i know (but the shops don't have too many nice guitars here), but i prefer it to a USA '52 reissue tele i tried in a local shop. of course, it's a different guitar, different neck shape etc. etc., but take of that what you will...

based on the couple i've tried, i'd agree with senor that the older ones seem to have the mojo, but i've tried quite a few newer ones too, and liked them as well (and preferred at least some of them to gibsons i've tried). didn't like them just as much as mine, but (based on the ones i've tried anyway), they were still very nice guitars, especially if you can get them cheaper than the old ones.

which newer one did you get, senor? was it MIJ? the other thing is, in the states you get different tokais to the UK (and japan)- we can still get "copies", whereas in the USA, as far as i'm aware, you can't. at the end of the day, it depends how nice versions of each type of guitar the shops closest to you are getting... it's entirely possible that in Northern Ireland we're getting the almost-rejects of the gibson line, while we're getting quite nice tokais (and it might be vice-versa for the USA), but obviously i can only call it based on the ones i've tried. i must say that there was one MIJ tokai which i tried and wasn't all that fussed on (a lp special copy with p90s), but other than that, every single MIJ one i've tried (and i've probably tried at least 10, if not 15, by now) has been, at worst, a good guitar, and at best, awesome.

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 28, 2008,
#6
Wow thanks for the pretty quick replys guys, keep them coming! And thanks for your help so far.
My Gear:
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Fender MIM Stratocaster
Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Epiphone G-400
Cheap acoustic


Roland Cube 30X
USA Big Muff PI
Dunlop Crybaby Wah GCB-95
#7
just to clarify, that USA Fender '52 reissue i mentioned was a new one, not an 80s one like senor was talking about.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#8
I never said anything about mojo - as the whole idea of mojo is something I have said is total BS - there are good guitars and bad guitars. That's it.

I own a real Pre-CBS Strat and I owned a new Tokai and an old Tokai.

To clarify - from someone who has actually owned the guitars they are comparing the guitar to:

1- My old Tokai was nice. It was not even close to a real Pre-CBS Fender Strat. Period.

2- The new Tokai I bought was a Japanese one and it was awful. It sounded bad and felt like a toy. The wood was low quality like an Agile and it was nothing like the original I owned.

3- I would buy a used USA Fender RI before I ever bought a new or used Tokai. If you find a good deal on an old one they're ok (I said OK - not great) and if the price is right I would buy it.
#9
sorry for putting words in your mouth. i meant that i'd agree that the older tokais were nicer than the newer ones.

never even seen, let alone tried a pre-cbs fender. i know they're the ones which go for the big bucks, i'm sure they're amazing.

as i said, i can only call it on the tokais i've tried, and on the basis of the ones i've tried (excepting one, out of about 15), i'd take them over any modern-production fender i've tried- and here in the UK, fenders go for easily twice what the equivalent tokai model would go for- the USA RI fenders start at around the £1000 mark (new) while 80s tokais can be picked up (granted, they're second-hand, of course) for about £200-£400. granted in the US where you get much better value on fenders, that may change things a bit.

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
Right, so what you get from this is DaveMc is giving you an opinion based upon:

1- Never even playing - let alone owning - the guitar Tokai is copying

2- He'll take a Tokai over any Fender "he's seen". Check my profile, as it has some of my Fenders. I own cheapo ones like the Squier 51, older ones like my pre-cbs Strat, my 70s Tele, a 69 Strat in Olympic white, modern ones like an 87 Strat +, 87 American Standard and a bunch of Custom Shop models. Heck, I even own a Fender Japan with serial number 12.

Please remember that when these people start saying I hate Asian guitars. I own about 12 -15 made in Asia guitars.

As I stated, I also owned a new Tokai and an old one. I would take a used Fender over either.

3- Dave Mc has a grudge against Senor Smiley as well. He claimed at one point I didn't own a Soldano amplifier - even though I have YouTube videos of myself (and I even say I'm Senor Smiley) with the amp and there are many pics of it in my profile, so keep that in mind - along with the fact that he is once again trying to put words in my mouth with his "mojo" comment that I never made.

Again, take any advice you want but a lot of people give advice about things they have never seen, played or owned.

And DaveMc - grow up. We all know you have a problem with me but don't put words in my mouth. It only makes you look immature.
Last edited by SenorSmiley at Sep 28, 2008,
#11
Quote by Mahoru
There are 2 kinds of Tokai.
The MIK are pretty much better than most knockoffs nowadays, but nowhere near what the old ones were.

The MIJ are easily as good as the originals; look, sound and feel like them, so YES, they're as good as people say.


Not true. The new MIJ are not as good as the old ones were. I have owned both and was very sorry I bought the 2nd one. It was ok but not anywhere as good as the original.
#12
Quote by SenorSmiley
Right, so what you get from this is DaveMc is giving you an opinion based upon:

1- Never even playing - let alone owning - the guitar Tokai is copying

2a)- He'll take a Tokai over any Fender "he's seen". Check my profile, as it has some of my Fenders. I own cheapo ones like the Squier 51, older ones like my pre-cbs Strat, my 70s Tele, a 69 Strat in Olympic white, modern ones like an 87 Strat +, 87 American Standard and a bunch of Custom Shop models. Heck, I even own a Fender Japan with serial number 12.

b) Please remember that when these people start saying I hate Asian guitars. I own about 12 -15 made in Asia guitars.

c) As I stated, I also owned a new Tokai and an old one. I would take a used Fender over either.

3a)- Dave Mc has a grudge against Senor Smiley as well. He claimed at one point I didn't own a Soldano amplifier - even though I have YouTube videos of myself (and I even say I'm Senor Smiley) with the amp and there are many pics of it in my profile, so keep that in mind - along with the fact that he is once again trying to put words in my mouth with his "mojo" comment that I never made.

b) Again, take any advice you want but a lot of people give advice about things they have never seen, played or owned.

c) And DaveMc - grow up. We all know you have a problem with me but don't put words in my mouth. It only makes you look immature.


jeez... i don't have a grudge against you. i claimed you didn't have a soldano in a thread you made ages ago because a lot of the stuff you were saying didn't add up.

in response to your points:

1) of course. how many people on these forums have tried a pre-CBS strat? i'm not recommending a tokai versus those, because over here (and the TS is from the UK) those will set you back £5000 plus (and that's if you don't get scammed with a fake). You can get an 80s tokai for £300 (granted there are fakes of those starting to appear too). it's just not an option for most people, and if it is, you'd probably be better off not taking advice from an online forum.

2a) i said i'd take a tokai over any fender i've tried, not seen. meaning the ones i've tried which are readily available here. 99% (if not 99.99%) of people, when talking about fenders (especially on forums like UG), mean post-CBS i.e. the ones that are affordable if you're not the CEO of a FTSE 100 company. you're moving the goalposts- i never said i'd take a tokai over a pre-CBS Fender- and you accuse me of putting words in your mouth?

b) i never said you hated asian guitars.

c) that's fair enough. I own an old tokai too, and i've played a lot of others, and with the exception of that one i mentioned, I liked them all. I've tried their gibson copies too, and I prefer them to current (non-custom shop) production gibsons either. I've never (shock horror!) tried a '59 gibson les paul standard either, does that mean my opinion on current production gibsons and their tokai (and other japanese copies) equivalents is void too?

3a) i was far from the only one claiming you didn't have a soldano in that thread, and i wasn't the first. If you look at my record on these forums, I'm normally the last person saying to trust the person who's making the claim in a thread- suffice to say, if i claimed you didn't have a soldano, i had a good reason (at the time at least). and I resent the fact that you'd think I'd harbour a grudge (truth be told I'd forgotten all about the soldano incident until you brought it up).

I took back what I said about mojo, in case you hadn't noticed. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

3b) was the threadstarter asking about pre-CBS Fenders? I doubt it very much, if he has enough for a pre-CBS strat, why the hell is he looking at tokais?

how many tokais have you tried, by the way? from the sounds of it (i could be wrong, i don't want to put words in your mouth ), 2.

c) please stop telling me to grow up, i've been nothing but mature, and I apologised for putting words in your mouth (which was not my intention). you're now continuing with your conspiracy theory that I have a grudge against you, and meanwhile are moving the goalposts to back up what you'd said:

here are some wiki links which might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
Like I said, the guy has a grude against me. He did say I didn't have a Soldano, I guess if enough people say something that isn't true it makes it ok.

I also never said DaveMc said I hated Asian guitars. This is something others have said and it makes no sense as I own a bunch of them.

For the record I said, "Please remember that when these people start saying I hate Asian guitars. I own about 12 -15 made in Asia guitars."

To move on and not get stuck in a battle with someone who has a grudge, I will tell you this.

If you can get a Fender USA Reissue cheap it will be light years better than a new Tokai, regardless of where it is made.

If you can get an old Tokai - by old I mean from the 80s - it will be light years better than a new Tokai, regardless of where it is made.

I would not reccomend a new Tokai, regardless of where it was made, as the MIJ that I bought was nothing special. This is my comparison to my old Tokai, not to a Pre-CBS or USA Fender - as that would not be fair.

If it were me I would either save up to buy a used USA reissue, look for an older Fender Japan Reissue or look into putting something together from Warmoth before I bought a new Tokai. If you can find an old Tokai go for it.

Again, I have owned everything I talk about - despite the fact that certain people find it objectionable.

Oh, and the TS's question #3 was if Tokai's guitars are really what they claim to be - given that they are supposed to be "An Exact Copy of an Old Strat" I would say comparing them to a Pre-CBS guitar is not only relevent but prudent.

Oh, and to answer DaveMc's question about how many Tokai's I have tried I would guess about 9 - 10 old ones - my old professor (Mike Williams) when I was at Berklee had quite a few.

I have probably tried between 5 - 10 newer ones, excluding the one I purchased. A few people I know have bought them and I have not seen one (new model) that I thought was anything special.

Here is a pic of my Soldano (on the right) and a couple of my guitars - what I could fit in the picture - in my modest home studio. There are also videos of it. Even if certain people say you don't have something sometimes it's right in the other room.

Last edited by SenorSmiley at Sep 29, 2008,
#14
Quote by SenorSmiley
(a) Like I said, the guy has a grude against me. He did say I didn't have a Soldano, I guess if enough people say something that isn't true it makes it ok.

(b) I also never said DaveMc said I hated Asian guitars. This is something others have said and it makes no sense as I own a bunch of them.

For the record I said, "Please remember that when these people start saying I hate Asian guitars. I own about 12 -15 made in Asia guitars."

(c) To move on and not get stuck in a battle with someone who has a grudge, I will tell you this.

(d) If you can get a Fender USA Reissue cheap it will be light years better than a new Tokai, regardless of where it is made.

(e) If you can get an old Tokai - by old I mean from the 80s - it will be light years better than a new Tokai, regardless of where it is made.

(f) I would not reccomend a new Tokai, regardless of where it was made, as the MIJ that I bought was nothing special. This is my comparison to my old Tokai, not to a Pre-CBS or USA Fender - as that would not be fair.

(g) If it were me I would either save up to buy a used USA reissue, look for an older Fender Japan Reissue or look into putting something together from Warmoth before I bought a new Tokai. If you can find an old Tokai go for it.

(h) Again, I have owned everything I talk about - despite the fact that certain people find it objectionable.

(i) Oh, and the TS's question #3 was if Tokai's guitars are really what they claim to be - given that they are supposed to be "An Exact Copy of an Old Strat" I would say comparing them to a Pre-CBS guitar is not only relevent but prudent.

(j) Oh, and to answer DaveMc's question about how many Tokai's I have tried I would guess about 9 - 10 old ones - my old professor (Mike Williams) when I was at Berklee had quite a few.

I have probably tried between 5 - 10 newer ones, excluding the one I purchased. A few people I know have bought them and I have not seen one (new model) that I thought was anything special.

(k) Here is a pic of my Soldano (on the right) and a couple of my guitars - what I could fit in the picture - in my modest home studio. There are also videos of it. Even if certain people say you don't have something sometimes it's right in the other room.



(a) no, i meant that at the time it sounded fishy, as did almost everyone else in the thread.

(b) sure.

(c) could you please stop with the baseless ad hominems please? i already said i'm not holding a grudge, and i brought up the fact that most other people in that thread who also thought you were lying meant that it wasn't just me and my "grudge".

(d) here in the UK, that's not possible- new they start at the £1000 mark (and that's if you get a good price). even second-hand, i'd guess a US reissue to be at least twice the price of an 80s tokai. it's not comparing like with like in other words. you can get a vigier here for a similar price to a US fender reissue... the point is, and forgive me if i've got the wrong end of the stick, that you're saying that tokais aren't as good as guitars which, here in the UK at least, are much more expensive. it's like saying a valveking doesn't sound as good as a bogner ecstacy, for example... if you're considering a valveking, the ecstacy is probably a pipe-dream (i think that's the expression), to be honest. and it's a similar thing here. I've tried new fenders which were a similar price to second-hand tokai copies (in fact, more expensive) head to head, and, based on the ones i tried, i preferred the tokais. An MIM standard fender here goes for £300- that will buy you a second-hand tokai. that's all i'm saying.

(e) probably, yeah.

(f)

(g) sounds sensible enough, but here you probably have a few other options too which might be worth considering (as those fender USA reissues are so expensive). for the price of a new fender US reissue, you could probably find a luthier who'd make you a guitar to your own spec (as long as it was a pretty basic spec).

(h) i didn't find it objectionable- i'm always concerned when people try stuff and have the exact opposite opinion to what i have, as it makes me wonder if i'm wrong. there was nothing more to my post than that. that's why i was so interested in what you were saying, as it seemed to be almost the polar opposite of my experiences.

(i) question #3 was, "are they really as good as people make them out to be?", not what you said. That is obviously subjective, and also involves things like value for money etc. (haha, i caught this bit before you edited ). there are several online forums dedicated to how good tokais (and other japanese copies) are, so it's clearly not just me who thinks they're a good deal. of course, i admit that they aren't as good a deal in the USA, where you are. but the TS is in the UK, as am I, so it's fair to consider values and prices as they are in the UK.

(j) fair enough, i was just making sure you'd tried more than two.

(k) there was no need to post the pic.

by the way, i've done some digging, and here are some of your old threads:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12247940#post12247940

"I Care what it says on the headstock "; "I owned a Tokai Goldstar (Strat) back in the 80's and it was killer." (slightly different from "nice" )

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=736125

your first thread. Note, i did not claim that you did not have a soldano.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=771035&page=1&pp=40

massive troll thread (eventually closed), where you claim that marshall mgs are actually good amps.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=773225&page=1&pp=40

and another one... you got banned for that one (not by me).

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#15
I will stand by the fact that Marshall MG amps are good amps.

I will stand by the fact that as I have said, my 80's Tokai was nice. That is why I said I would buy an old one. I also said I would buy an old 80's Tokai over a new one several times.

Yes, I do care what it says on the headstock. I never said I didn't. That being said, I do own some lower end/non-name brand guitars like Line 6, Squier, Epiphone, etc.... so it is not the only deciding factor on my buying or not buying something.

Let's stay on the topic of the thread which is about Tokai guitars.

How many have you owned?

How many have you played?

Have you ever played the guitars they claim to be (good old Strats)?

If not, the TS deserves to know you're giving your opinion based upon never having seen, played or touched an old Strat which would definitly give them something to consider.

Having looked at the gear listed in your profile it doesn't seem like you have owned much cool stuff. Not saying this is good or bad, it just leads me to wonder how much of what you post is based on what you have owned, what is based on what you play in shops and what is based on you having never played something - like the fact that you have only played a couple USA Reissue Fenders (one a Tele) and I guess you never owned one.

In general, people tend to say what they own is the best so I would be curious to know.

Had I never driven a Ferari I would not want advice on one from someone who owned a kit car.

Fair enough?

Like I said to the TS - look at a couple of the pictures in my profile of my guitars and you will see I own expensive - like a few 50's Gibsons, old Fenders and Custom Shop models, moderate - like production Fender, Gretsch, etc... and cheap - like Line 6, Epiphone, Squier, etc... Please consider this when I am giving you my advice. It is based upon actually owning the guitars I am talking about.

Many times playing a guitar in a shop or at a friend's house does not give the same level of experience with a model as owning the same model.

The Tokais were marketed as "An Exact Copy of a Good Old Strat" this is why they were sued.

The TS asked if they are what they claim to be.

I own a few "Good Old Strats" as I have a few Pre CBS pieces, a few older Post-CBS pieces and a few Custom Shop Pieces.

I am telling you that - No. They are not what they claim to be. I sold my Tokai to buy a refin original Strat because it was light years better then the Tokai.

Given the choice, I would rather own a "name brand" simply because I have owned hundreds of guitars and the name brand models usually come out being a better deal in the end - if you want to sell them - and they are usually the ones I end up keeping.

There are forums on the internet that claim just about anything is good/bad. If that's going to be taken as gospal there sure are a lot of sickos out there doing un-natural things with a lot of things but I guess if a forum says it's good then it must be.

As you know (and have admitted above) you did say that I did not have a Soldano amplifier. You also have a grudge against me.

Yes, I have been banned many times. Usually for something like this. Someone will post a bunch of lies about me and I refute them and get banned.

I would like to stay on topic here with regard to the Tokai question. I have answered it truthfully and based upon my ownership of Old and New Tokai and Pre and Post CBS Fender.

Oh, and DaveMc, the only reason I posted a pic is because unless I post a pic or a video I have people like yourself saying I don't own what I say I do.
Last edited by SenorSmiley at Sep 29, 2008,
#16
I haven't read ALL that gibberish but I'll give some input:

The Tokai's are good if they're in your budget.
SenorSmiley claims he can get pre-CBS fenders and vintage Gibsons for under $1000, however, you may not have his "skills". With strats, I'd get a Tokai over a Mexican Fender, but a Fender Japan over a Tokai, and an American over a Fender Jap.

Now Senor, stop talking about your "many vintage guitars" you sparked this argument for no reason, Dave_MC said nothign to spark you, then you come at him with "he has a grudge" "you've never played a pre-CBS strat"
Noone cares, you think you're better than everyone cos you've played more guitars than them, I can tell you one thing, Rory Gallagher played the same strat every gig he did, he used few others on stage and didn't own an awful lot, however he was still an incredible musician and great guy.
Stop acting as if you get some ****in' medal for saying "I have this, and I've played this".
It means nothing.
#17
Ninja, according to you I don't even own what I have pics, videos, etc... of.

Let's stick to the topic - Tokai guitars. If you would like to start a "I hate Senor Smiley" thread or leave wierd messages on my profile that's all fine. You seem to think I would care that you're buying a new amp or something.

Posting here does nothing to help the TS.

You may not like the fact that I can give an opinion based upon ownership, but I think it does someone asking a question a real diservice when someone who has never owned/played/seen a guitar or has limited experience with a model gives an opinion as if it is factual.

Have you owned any Tokai guitars?
Were they old or new?
How many Tokai guitars have you played?
Did you think they measuered up to the guitars they copy?
How many of the guitars they copy have they owned?

Now, based upon your answers to the above question the TS can get a feel for how valid your opinion may be.

PS - I can tell you that I could give a flying __ about Rory Gallager even though you seem to have some sort of man crush that doesn't allow you to go a day without posting about him. Seeing as how this thread is about Tokai guitars I don't see how he matters.

For the record, I did own a Fender Rory Gallager Strat for a while that I picked up super cheap after it sat in a store for well over a year. It was blah but I got a decent price for it on ebay a while back.
Last edited by SenorSmiley at Sep 29, 2008,
#18
Okay, you want to be an ignorant ass abotu this?
I never said anything abotu you owning or not owning, I just said, you seem to suggest to EVERYONE, that they should get a pre-CBS Fender/Vintage Gibson, cos naturally everyone can afford them

And you CAN give an opinion based on ownership, however, what you do, is say "I own [a string of guitars] and I also own [another string of guitars] so I believe [this hypothesis]" and if ANYONE opposes you, you come at them with "Well you don't own [expensive/rare guitar] so you can't say".
Apparently people's opinions are invalid unless they've played and owned every vintage and expensive guitar in existance. I shouldn't answer your questions but I will.

Haven't owned a Tokai no.
I have played many however.
They were a mixtre of new and old, the new were playable, I'd prefer one over an Epiphone for instance (if we're on about Gibson) or a squier (for the Fender copies), however I wouldn't pass up a real fender for one.
The old ones I played (only a few, but I got a decent amount of playage.) were real nice, I'd probably prefer a Fender american standard or a Japanese Fender over one, but I'd still recommend one.
Now, by measure up what do you mean? You seem to think that Tokai's goal is to replicate pre-CBS fender. I believe that the strats I played were good, very good, but not the same as high end Fender, but they easily compete with low-mid end.
You phrased your last question in a way I can't understand

EDIT: For the record, stop editing, read the post then reply thoroughly dammit.
Now I wasn't trying to put Rory Gallagher as a thread topic, I'm saying, you don't need to be an ass to be a good guitarist with decent gear, you also don't need to have every guitar in the world to be classed as someone with a good opinion on guitars.
I was using him as one of many examples of peopel who don't let their possesions get to their heads.
#19
Quote by SenorSmiley
Not true. The new MIJ are not as good as the old ones were. I have owned both and was very sorry I bought the 2nd one. It was ok but not anywhere as good as the original.


I think I didn't explained myself. I meant the MIJ Tokai are as good as the guitars they copy nowadays. Of course I'm not comparing a Tokai to a pre-CBS Fender or a pre 80's Gibson, no one would do that!
- Fender American Standard Ash Telecaster w/ DiMarzio Chopper T & Twang King
- Alhambra 5P
- Laney Lionheart L5T-112
- Line 6 POD XT
- Suhr Shiba Drive
- MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay
- Dunlop Cry Baby
#20
Mahoru,

I think that aside from the foolishness that some people have posted you can take this away:

The older Tokai guitars are better then the new ones. If you can get a good deal on one buy it.

I can tell you from owning both that a new Tokai is not as good as a new MIA Reissue Fender. An older one may be as good/slightly better/worse - they're pretty close.

Ninja, you are correct. I do think the opinion of someone who has owned a product is more valuble then someone who has not.

I have never said I was better then anyone else. I also never suggested that the TS buy a Pre-CBS Fender.

I have never claimed to have played every vintage guitar in existence. However, again, I think that the opinion of someone who has never played "guitar x" is not as valid as the person who has owned that guitar.

I have never owned a Ferari so I wouldn't give my opinion on how they are to drive. If someone asked how it is to drive the car that I do own I may chime in.

To the TS - Ninja now claims he would take an American Standard Fender over a Tokai, which is a completly different guitar. Different neck profile, different electronics, different hardware, trem system, fret size, number of frets, finish on neck, etc... this is what I mean about the opinions of people who are not familiar with the product.

You (Ninja) said:

I'm saying, you don't need to be an ass to be a good guitarist with decent gear, you also don't need to have every guitar in the world to be classed as someone with a good opinion on guitars.


Ninja, I don't think that either. I do think that in order to have a +valid+ opinion on a guitar you do need to have at least played the model being discussed.

Same thing.

Again, let's all stick to the topic.
Last edited by SenorSmiley at Sep 29, 2008,
#21
I never said that, I know someone who has owned a guitar, is clearly more in the right to give an opinion than someone who's never seen the guitar. However, Dave Mc here has an old Tokai and you're saying "You haven't played a pre-CBS fender so your opinion doesn't count".

Since the old days where you typed "jealous" as "Jellos" the only thing that has changed is your skill with a keyboard. You still never read what people say, jump to conclusions, and constantly mention your gear. You say I mention Rory Gallagher a lot? You mention that soldano amp WAY too much, on a topic about Picks you'd probably mention the soldano.
And you haven't claimed to play every vintage guitar in existance, but you might as well, you can't go one topic without talking abotu your vast array of guitars.
And you also seem to think the only way to get a valid opinion on something is to have owned it for a long time beforehand. But as I said a long while ago, a guitar is a guitar if you own it or if you've only played it for an hour or so.

Okay mr Senor, you're still editing, but it's cool, now, please tell me, what is the model being discussed? It hasn't been mentioned, and it certainly isn't a pre-CBS fender, why are you trying to discuss that?
Now I've told you, I've played many Tokai's, I think the older Japanese ones are great, the newer Japanese ones are pretty good and the Korean/Chinese style ones are decent enough.

#22
Quote by SenorSmiley
(a) I will stand by the fact that Marshall MG amps are good amps.

(b) I will stand by the fact that as I have said, my 80's Tokai was nice. That is why I said I would buy an old one. I also said I would buy an old 80's Tokai over a new one several times.

(c) Yes, I do care what it says on the headstock. I never said I didn't. That being said, I do own some lower end/non-name brand guitars like Line 6, Squier, Epiphone, etc.... so it is not the only deciding factor on my buying or not buying something.

Let's stay on the topic of the thread which is about Tokai guitars.

(d) How many have you owned?

(e) How many have you played?

(f) Have you ever played the guitars they claim to be (good old Strats)?

(g) If not, the TS deserves to know you're giving your opinion based upon never having seen, played or touched an old Strat which would definitly give them something to consider.

(h) Having looked at the gear listed in your profile it doesn't seem like you have owned much cool stuff. Not saying this is good or bad, it just leads me to wonder how much of what you post is based on what you have owned, what is based on what you play in shops and what is based on you having never played something - like the fact that you have only played a couple USA Reissue Fenders (one a Tele) and I guess you never owned one.

(i) In general, people tend to say what they own is the best so I would be curious to know.

(j) Had I never driven a Ferari I would not want advice on one from someone who owned a kit car.

Fair enough?

(k) Like I said to the TS - look at a couple of the pictures in my profile of my guitars and you will see I own expensive - like a few 50's Gibsons, old Fenders and Custom Shop models, moderate - like production Fender, Gretsch, etc... and cheap - like Line 6, Epiphone, Squier, etc... Please consider this when I am giving you my advice. It is based upon actually owning the guitars I am talking about.

Many times playing a guitar in a shop or at a friend's house does not give the same level of experience with a model as owning the same model.

The Tokais were marketed as "An Exact Copy of a Good Old Strat" this is why they were sued.

The TS asked if they are what they claim to be.

I own a few "Good Old Strats" as I have a few Pre CBS pieces, a few older Post-CBS pieces and a few Custom Shop Pieces.

I am telling you that - No. They are not what they claim to be. I sold my Tokai to buy a refin original Strat because it was light years better then the Tokai.

Given the choice, I would rather own a "name brand" simply because I have owned hundreds of guitars and the name brand models usually come out being a better deal in the end - if you want to sell them - and they are usually the ones I end up keeping.

There are forums on the internet that claim just about anything is good/bad. If that's going to be taken as gospal there sure are a lot of sickos out there doing un-natural things with a lot of things but I guess if a forum says it's good then it must be.

As you know (and have admitted above) you did say that I did not have a Soldano amplifier. You also have a grudge against me.

Yes, I have been banned many times. Usually for something like this. Someone will post a bunch of lies about me and I refute them and get banned.

I would like to stay on topic here with regard to the Tokai question. I have answered it truthfully and based upon my ownership of Old and New Tokai and Pre and Post CBS Fender.

Oh, and DaveMc, the only reason I posted a pic is because unless I post a pic or a video I have people like yourself saying I don't own what I say I do.


(a) that's your prerogative of course.

(b) and i agreed.

(c) that's fair enough.

(d) 1, an 80s goldstar.

(e) i guess about 15 (both fender and gibson copies). I never counted, but it's quite a few at least (more than 10).

(f) no, because they're extremely rare here, and when they do turn up, they're worth more than most people earn in a year, so i doubt the shops would let you try one unless you were deadly serious about actually buying it. I have tried plenty of the modern production fenders, though, which are direct competitors to the tokais (being in the same price bracket). the pre-cbs clearly are not in the same price bracket.

(g) that's not fair. what you're, in effect, saying is that because i haven't tried a ferrari, that I shouldn't give advice about whether to buy a vauxhall corsa or a nissan micra (when I've tried both of those). That's clearly retarded. is the only person qualified to give advice about modern production fenders someone who's tried a pre-CBS? clearly not. it's possible to tell whether, say, a tokai is a better guitar than a modern production Fender (or vice-versa) based on having tried both those models (as I have) and also based on personal preference.

(h) i don't recommend stuff which I haven't tried- and if i haven't tried it, if i say it's worth looking into, I always mention that i haven't tried it. I've never owned a Fender because any time I tried one, I found guitars I liked better from other brands. What you're saying is that I shouldn't be allowed to say I prefer other guitars to Fenders when I don't own one, which is clearly ridiculous as I've decided to buy other guitars as I preferred them. That logic doesn't add up. Must one own a $20 piece of crap guitar to declare it rubbish? Of course not, if it's that bad one wouldn't purchase it in the first place. I'm not saying Fenders are rubbish of course, I'm just pointing out that not being overly impressed by ones i've tried in shops is the reason I don't own one. Before I bought my tokai i tried a LOT of modern production Fenders, and in the end went with the Tokai as I thought it offered better value for money, better tone and better playability compared to equivalently-priced Fenders.

(i) i like (and recommend) many things which I don't own. Give me a little credit, please.

(j) that's false analogy, though. you're claiming that someone who had driven both a corsa and a micra shouldn't give advice on either of those two cars if he/she hadn't driven a ferrari (which is more or less irrelevant in that price bracket).

(k) i admit that playing in a shop doesn't give as much insight as owning, but my point is that it is naive to expect someone to buy something he/she doesn't like. if i don't like it in the shop, i don't buy it. maybe if you exercised similar logic you wouldn't have had to trade hundreds of guitars.

btw, can we have close-ups, including serial numbers, along with a picture of you with today's newspaper next to them? it's gone from your owning one pre-cbs strat to now several 50s gibsons, pre-cbs strats, not to mention the fact that you attended berkely etc. etc. i wouldn't ask for this normally, but you had the temerity to slag off my gear, which is not cool. and you've been banned for trolling before; if you cry wolf too many times...
Quote by Mahoru
I think I didn't explained myself. I meant the MIJ Tokai are as good as the guitars they copy nowadays. Of course I'm not comparing a Tokai to a pre-CBS Fender or a pre 80's Gibson, no one would do that!


vindicated! in my opinion, they are, depending on budget. certainly the MIJ ones i've tried have been nicer than the fender/gibson guitars i've tried at the same price bracket.

sorry this thread degenerated into a big fight...
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
Ninja, chill out.

You are correct, on a forum about guitars I do talk about guitars that I own.

I disagree with your saying:
a guitar is a guitar if you own it or if you've only played it for an hour or so.

I will give you an example.

I tried and bought a PRS back in 1994 or 1995. I thought it was fantastic. There were not as many PRS guitars around back then as there are now.

I had it for a few months and played it pretty much all the time.

Over Christmas break I was home and took out my Gibson Les Paul Custom (a 1972 model that I no longer own) and was blown away at how much better it sounded compared to the PRS.

After that, the PRS has sat in a closet since. I take it out now and again but it just doesn't do anything for me.

Had I not purchased the PRS I may be here saying I played a PRS in a store and it was the best thing I ever played. Having owned it, giged with it and recorded with it I can tell you that it is a well made, great playing guitar but the sound doesn't do it for me.

I guess this is where I'm coming from. I base my opinions on things I have owned and used in a variety of different situations.
#24
Quote by Dave_Mc
(a) no, i meant that at the time it sounded fishy, as did almost everyone else in the thread.

(b) sure.

(c) could you please stop with the baseless ad hominems please? i already said i'm not holding a grudge, and i brought up the fact that most other people in that thread who also thought you were lying meant that it wasn't just me and my "grudge".

(d) here in the UK, that's not possible- new they start at the £1000 mark (and that's if you get a good price). even second-hand, i'd guess a US reissue to be at least twice the price of an 80s tokai. it's not comparing like with like in other words. you can get a vigier here for a similar price to a US fender reissue... the point is, and forgive me if i've got the wrong end of the stick, that you're saying that tokais aren't as good as guitars which, here in the UK at least, are much more expensive. it's like saying a valveking doesn't sound as good as a bogner ecstacy, for example... if you're considering a valveking, the ecstacy is probably a pipe-dream (i think that's the expression), to be honest. and it's a similar thing here. I've tried new fenders which were a similar price to second-hand tokai copies (in fact, more expensive) head to head, and, based on the ones i tried, i preferred the tokais. An MIM standard fender here goes for £300- that will buy you a second-hand tokai. that's all i'm saying.

(e) probably, yeah.

(f)

(g) sounds sensible enough, but here you probably have a few other options too which might be worth considering (as those fender USA reissues are so expensive). for the price of a new fender US reissue, you could probably find a luthier who'd make you a guitar to your own spec (as long as it was a pretty basic spec).

(h) i didn't find it objectionable- i'm always concerned when people try stuff and have the exact opposite opinion to what i have, as it makes me wonder if i'm wrong. there was nothing more to my post than that. that's why i was so interested in what you were saying, as it seemed to be almost the polar opposite of my experiences.

(i) question #3 was, "are they really as good as people make them out to be?", not what you said. That is obviously subjective, and also involves things like value for money etc. (haha, i caught this bit before you edited ). there are several online forums dedicated to how good tokais (and other japanese copies) are, so it's clearly not just me who thinks they're a good deal. of course, i admit that they aren't as good a deal in the USA, where you are. but the TS is in the UK, as am I, so it's fair to consider values and prices as they are in the UK.

(j) fair enough, i was just making sure you'd tried more than two.

(k) there was no need to post the pic.

by the way, i've done some digging, and here are some of your old threads:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12247940#post12247940

"I Care what it says on the headstock "; "I owned a Tokai Goldstar (Strat) back in the 80's and it was killer." (slightly different from "nice" )

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=736125

your first thread. Note, i did not claim that you did not have a soldano.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=771035&page=1&pp=40

massive troll thread (eventually closed), where you claim that marshall mgs are actually good amps.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=773225&page=1&pp=40

and another one... you got banned for that one (not by me).


i loled very hard
#25
I'm on a forum about music, so I shall talk abotu Rory Gallagher, a muscian
Now, that example isn't right, a change of interest does NOT make the guitar a different thing, it still sounded, felt and played the same as it did before you were blown away right?

Now "I guess this is where I'm coming from. I base my opinions on things I have owned and used in a variety of different situations."
You don't, you base your opinion on "If it's expensive, american made, and more than 40 years old I won't complain, but anything else and all hell's let loose".
#26
(to post #23) as i said, i agree with that logic, up to a point. certainly upon owning guitars for several months, if not years, minor faults which you could overlook in the store (or which you think you would get used to) can become apparent. my point, however, is that if it's bad enough in the store that you don't want to buy it, you clearly aren't going to buy it. that clearly doesn't mean that your opinion of, "it was so bad i didn't buy it" is not valid. if something is not perfect in a shop, you are unwise to buy it, as enough smaller problems may surface later without your buying a guitar with which there were already obvious flaws... but certainly those more obvious flaws are worth pointing out, and are certainly valid, even though you don't own the guitar.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
Dave,

I have traded "hundreds" of guitars because if I see something that is a good deal I buy it and will sell it.

I think you are mis-reading my "Ferrari" analogy. For example, I do own a sports car and I am very fond of it. I would never tell someone it is "better then a Ferarri" because I have never owned a Ferarri and have never driven one.

If you have played a bunch of MIA Fenders and like your Tokai better I can understand that. In fact, I think I have said that when I bought my Tokai (which was probably around the same year as yours) I found it to be about the same as a MIA Fender Reissue of the same model.

You may not think it's fair to say someone who hasn't tried a Pre-CBS Fender shouldn't comment on them. I see this as logical. If you've never played a Pre-CBS Fender how would you know what they're like?

If you're ever in Boston (you're from Ireland, so I figure there's a chance you have reletives here - my mom is from Ireland BTW) feel free to get in touch and I'll show you some of mine.
#28
Noone said they were comparing Tokai, or any other guitar to a pre-CBS Fender, that was you.
And your Ireland comment was a bit sweeping, not everyone in Ireland has relatives in Boston dear.
#29
Quote by Punk_Ninja
."
You don't, you base your opinion on "If it's expensive, american made, and more than 40 years old I won't complain, but anything else and all hell's let loose".


Ninja,

If that is the case, why do I own more recently made guitars then I do 40 year old ones?

I also own over ten Asian guitars and many cheapos like Line 6, Epiphone, Squier, etc....

Last time I checked all my Gretsches (I have quite a few) were made in Japan. I guess I just don't see where you're coming from.

I said "there is a chance" Dave could have a reletive here. There are a lot of people from Ireland here and it's a historical fact. Don't get all upset.
Last edited by SenorSmiley at Sep 29, 2008,
#30
Quote by SenorSmiley
Dave,

(a) I have traded "hundreds" of guitars because if I see something that is a good deal I buy it and will sell it.

(b) I think you are mis-reading my "Ferrari" analogy. For example, I do own a sports car and I am very fond of it. I would never tell someone it is "better then a Ferarri" because I have never owned a Ferarri and have never driven one.

(c) If you have played a bunch of MIA Fenders and like your Tokai better I can understand that. In fact, I think I have said that when I bought my Tokai (which was probably around the same year as yours) I found it to be about the same as a MIA Fender Reissue of the same model.

(d) You may not think it's fair to say someone who hasn't tried a Pre-CBS Fender shouldn't comment on them. I see this as logical. If you've never played a Pre-CBS Fender how would you know what they're like?

(e) If you're ever in Boston (you're from Ireland, so I figure there's a chance you have reletives here - my mom is from Ireland BTW) feel free to get in touch and I'll show you some of mine.


(a) that's fair enough. i buy stuff to keep if i like it enough.

(b) of course, nor would i. any mention i made of fenders was in relation to modern production fenders. i assumed (correctly) that the TS wasn't considering pre-CBS fenders.

(c)

(d) i agree. i wasn't talking about pre-CBS ones, i was talking about modern ones which i have tried. considering that pre-CBS fenders are about 15 times the price (even for a refinished one) of even the nicest late 70s/early 80s tokais, i assumed we were talking about fenders in a similar price bracket to the tokais (i.e. modern fenders).

(e) haha, cheers i don't think i have any relatives in boston though.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 29, 2008,
#31
You can make sweeping statements but I can't? Fair enough.
Anyway, the point I was making was, you think you're the bee's knees cos you own all these vintage guitars, you then say "I don't cos I own asian guitars", this doesn't redeem the fact you act like your opinion is the only one.
And there's a chance yes, but there's also a chance that he has relatives in africa, australia, england, japan, anywhere, that's like me saying "SenorSmiley, if you have any relatives in Staffordshire, come round."
#32
Hi SenorSmiley,
People are arguing with you. That's perfectly reasonable. There's a little animosity between you and some other members. That's also reasonable, considering your difference in opinion.
There's a certain risk you take when you put your opinion on a forum. Part of that risk is that someone else might disagree with you. That doesn't mean you have to report their posts claiming that they're dragging you into a "flamewar."
You have reported no fewer than 14 posts since yesterday, and almost all of them were simply disagreeing with you. If you can't take a little criticism, go somewhere else.
#33
Ninja,

You said:

Noone said they were comparing Tokai, or any other guitar to a pre-CBS Fender, that was you.
And your Ireland comment was a bit sweeping, not everyone in Ireland has relatives in Boston dear.

Actually, Tokai used to put something to the effect of, "this is an exact copy of the good old Strat" right on their guitars so they raised this point.

That is why when asked if they are what they claim to be I say no.

Also, DaveMc - if you are offended by my Boston comment I'm sorry. I was just being friendly.

Ninja, you claim I have everything that is not 40 years old and American made. What are all those new Custom Shop Fenders, Japanese Gretsches and Line 6, Squier, etc... guitars doing in my collection?

Please clarify.
#34
Please, don't twist my words.
I set myself straight about the "american and 40 years old comment" i was just generalising.

And Tokai USED to put. And I assume by that they meant 21 frets, six screw tremolo, three singles, vintage sound, I'm pretty sure they didn't mean "This is exactly how a pre-CBS strat is", "The good old strat" doesn't say "a pre-CBS strat" does it? It means it's a strat copy.
#35
Quote by SenorSmiley
(a) Actually, Tokai used to put something to the effect of, "this is an exact copy of the good old Strat" right on their guitars so they raised this point.

That is why when asked if they are what they claim to be I say no.

(b) Also, DaveMc - if you are offended by my Boston comment I'm sorry. I was just being friendly.


(a) of course, i'm aware that tokai did that. what i took the threadstarter to mean was "as good as people [meaning guitarists] make them out to be", not what tokai claimed.

(b) i wasn't offended, don't worry.

Quote by Roc8995
Hi SenorSmiley,
People are arguing with you. That's perfectly reasonable. There's a little animosity between you and some other members. That's also reasonable, considering your difference in opinion.
There's a certain risk you take when you put your opinion on a forum. Part of that risk is that someone else might disagree with you. That doesn't mean you have to report their posts claiming that they're dragging you into a "flamewar."
You have reported no fewer than 14 posts since yesterday, and almost all of them were simply disagreeing with you. If you can't take a little criticism, go somewhere else.


cheers colin.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
just to state the obvious, at the end of the day, tomo, the best way to find out if you like tokais is to try them if you can (and compare head-to-head with fenders and gibsons). you're in london, some of the denmark street shops are tokai dealers if i remember correctly, and they should have a load of fenders and gibsons too.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#37
Ninja,

I know you have a problem with me from all the wierd messages you leave on my profile and because you visit it about 10 times a day even when I'm banned so this will be my last post to you.

The reason Tokai "used" to put that and don't anymore is because they were sued. Had you ever seen any of the original catalogs they were clearly copying the Pre-CBS era Fender Stratocasters and 50's era Gibson Les Pauls.

You can look at semantics about "It doesn't say Pre-CBS" but those of us who actually saw the catalogs, marketing, etc... are smart enough to know that these guitars were not copies of CBS era guitars.

If you need further proof I suggest you look at the construction details (neck profile, logo style, bridge style, headstock, 2 color sunburst, etc...) of these guitars and draw your own conclusions.

In closing, please stop leaving creepy messages on my profile one minute then trying to chat me up about some new amp you're going to buy the next. It's wierd and it is actually really creepy.
#38
Abotu three messages, and I've visited your profiled to look at these "super reliable" pics and post said three comments. Though when someone attampts to offend me with insults based on my family I don't let go too easy.

And obviously, Vintage attempt to copy them, but there is no way, no how, anyone will copy a 50s/60s strat perfectly.
And don't call me stupid, they're obviously copying the style and saying they are, but they never say "Its as good as a vintage strat".

Don't try and flip this, you said that I can't save money, so I said "I'm in saving for a new amp" I don't think I'm trying to chat you up deary, I don't go for 30 year olds who think they were famous in the 60s
I think you should stick with the gear related insults, cos you can't seem to pull off anything else.
#39
they actually did copy some cbs strats (there are some 70s copies which have 3 bolt necks, the micro tilt thingy etc.), but i agree, it's obvious at which fenders most of the copies were aimed... the serial numbers on the tokai registry show you for which years they correspond to. and it's a well-known fact that they were sued, lol.

at the end of the day, we were arguing at cross purposes, senor, and i'm sorry for getting riled up, just i thought that some of your criticisms levelled at me weren't fair. I know i don't know as much about vintage fenders as you do, and while I won't deny that having tried them certainly wouldn't hurt, regarding this thread and the likely price bracket of guitars the TS is looking at, the pre-CBS fenders are more or less irrelevant... it's tokai (whether 80s or modern) versus modern production fenders, both of which I've tried (and in mu opinion that means I should be free to recommend either of them) basically, considering the prices which fenders fetch here.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#40
Quote by SenorSmiley
Ninja,

I know you have a problem with me from all the wierd messages you leave on my profile and because you visit it about 10 times a day even when I'm banned so this will be my last post to you.

The reason Tokai "used" to put that and don't anymore is because they were sued. Had you ever seen any of the original catalogs they were clearly copying the Pre-CBS era Fender Stratocasters and 50's era Gibson Les Pauls.

You can look at semantics about "It doesn't say Pre-CBS" but those of us who actually saw the catalogs, marketing, etc... are smart enough to know that these guitars were not copies of CBS era guitars.

If you need further proof I suggest you look at the construction details (neck profile, logo style, bridge style, headstock, 2 color sunburst, etc...) of these guitars and draw your own conclusions.

In closing, please stop leaving creepy messages on my profile one minute then trying to chat me up about some new amp you're going to buy the next. It's wierd and it is actually really creepy.

to be fair, you really are blowing that out of proportion... as usual. the thing about the amp was relevant to the "creepy" message, its also part of the same message, by the looks of it.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
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