#1
Hi,

just wondering about a good speaker cab to go with a EVJ head, I'd like something that can do rock/heavy rock/metal, is it really necessary to have a sealed 4x12 to get the metal sound?

I already have the complimentry epiphone 12" cab.
Last edited by Mattlikesguitar at Sep 29, 2008,
#2
The Valve Junior is a 5 watt, class A, single ended, vintage voiced amp with one gain stage.

It's not going to do metal, regardless of the cab you run it through.
#3
The Valve Junior is a 5 watt, class A, single ended, vintage voiced amp with one gain stage.
It's not going to do metal, regardless of the cab you run it through.


it's easy to make that assumption, but with the right pedals and mods, I disagree.
#4
Quote by Mattlikesguitar
it's easy to make that assumption, but with the right pedals and mods, I disagree.

if you have the vj cab look into a speaker swap.
___________________________
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#5
Quote by Mattlikesguitar
it's easy to make that assumption, but with the right pedals and mods, I disagree.

Si, with Mods, that can happen, but it's still not going to do it that well. It ain't a br00tal amp. Just speaker swap the Epi Cab. A 4x12 would just be pointless.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#6
what speaker swap would you recommend? Why do people assume that the epi 12" driver is no good?

I'm looking at making my 12" epi cab with a removable rear panel to give the options of sealed or open with the same cab.
#7
Because there are many better speakers than the Epi Stock.
Lets see.
Warehouse 30/Vintage 30
Maybe a Texas Heat....?
Greenback...since it's low wattage...
AlNiCo Blue or Gold. For sure. Since thats not a ridiculously expensive speaker.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#9
Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know what the Epi Cab is rated at. I'd just run it at that.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#11
just get a 16 ohm speaker.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#12
Quote by theoreticmusic
Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know what the Epi Cab is rated at. I'd just run it at that.


it's a 16, but the Vj will run anything. It has a 4, 8, and 16 plug in.
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#13
if you want to play metal.............look into a celestion g12k.
___________________________
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#15
Quote by imgooley
The Valve Junior is a 5 watt, class A, single ended, vintage voiced amp with one gain stage.

It's not going to do metal, regardless of the cab you run it through.


I'm going to reiterate this because its so true.

People, unless you plan on modding the circuit to a significant degree (and I'm not talking about just changing a few values here and there), you will not have an amp voiced for metal, no matter how many OD's you stick in front of it.
#16
Quote by al112987
I'm going to reiterate this because its so true.

People, unless you plan on modding the circuit to a significant degree (and I'm not talking about just changing a few values here and there), you will not have an amp voiced for metal, no matter how many OD's you stick in front of it.


please elaborate on that assumption, I'm sincerely interested in knowing the justification for your answer, I'll play the devils advocate

But what about putting say a metalzone (distortion) pedal infront?
Last edited by Mattlikesguitar at Oct 3, 2008,
#17
Quote by Mattlikesguitar
please elaborate on that assumption, I'm sincerely interested in knowing the justification for your answer, I'll play the devils advocate

The VJ is, as gooley said, a 5W, Class A, single ended amp. It's designed all the way through with vintage voicing and early breakup in mind. Substantial modifications need to take place in order for it to do th3 m3t@l. the best option is just to buy a new amp and keep the VJ for funsies.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#18
I don't mean to be rude, but alot of people voice there opinions but the problem is they don't justify why. Early break up could be good in a recording scenario. The vintage voicing can be dealt with pedals/eq/mods, just cos it looks vintage doesn't mean it has to be only vintage.
Last edited by Mattlikesguitar at Oct 3, 2008,
#19
Quote by Mattlikesguitar
I don't mean to be rude, but alot of people voice there opinions but the problem is they don't justify why. Early break up could be good in a recording scenario. The vintage voicing can be dealt with pedals/eq/mods, just cos it looks vintage doesn't mean it has to be only vintage.


The circuit of the amp itself isn't voiced for metal without significant modification. Things like speakers, new tubes, etc. don't count as modding, I mean get out your soldering iron, drill and schematic of the Valve jr.. Metal amps generally have certain qualities, a lot of top end cut, tight low end, clean power amp and multiple cascaded preamp gain stages that give you that high sensitivity metal gain. Like I said, you can mod the valve jr. for a cleaner power amp, install a MV circuit, add more gain stages, change filtering values, etc. etc. but you'll never get the tight low end or low mids of an amp that is voiced for metal. By then, it won't even a Valve jr. anyway, you might as well have built yourself a completely new amp, and no matter what, at 5 watts, it's still going to have very low headroom, even running clean output tubes. It's very hard to change how an amp if voiced, I could make countless mods to my JTM45, MV circuits, adding gain stages, etc. and in the end, it would still sound like a vintage Marshall with too much gain. It'll still have a bass that is too flabby and boomy to play metal.

An experienced set of ears can always tell the difference between a Mesa Triple Rec and a Vox AC30 that has been EQ'ed, with overdrives in front of it.
Last edited by al112987 at Oct 3, 2008,
#20
i'm with the "it's not aimed at metal brigade"... it's gonna need some pretty substantial mods, or a really good pedal, to sound metal to be honest.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
as my notes on my guitar and my vj gently die down from seek and destroy. the bitmo mods are so easy to do. so is the transformer and the right tubes and a celestion g12k. with the right pedals ohhhhhhhhhhh the VJ talk metal...............the VJ talks metal good
___________________________
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Last edited by mmjohn at Oct 3, 2008,
#22
Quote by al112987
The circuit of the amp itself isn't voiced for metal without significant modification. Things like speakers, new tubes, etc. don't count as modding, I mean get out your soldering iron and schematic of the Valve jr.. Metal amps generally have certain qualities, a lot of top end cut, tight low end, clean power amp and multiple cascaded preamp gain stages that give you that high sensitivity metal gain. Like I said, you can mod the valve jr. for a cleaner power amp, install a MV circuit, add more gain stages, change filtering values, etc. etc. but you'll never get the tight low end or low mids of an amp that is voiced for metal. By then, it won't even a Valve jr. anyway, you might as well have built yourself a completely new amp, and no matter what, at 5 watts, it's still going to have very low headroom, even running clean output tubes. It's very hard to change how an amp if voiced, I could make countless mods to my JTM45, MV circuits, adding gain stages, etc. and in the end, it would still sound like a vintage Marshall with too much gain. It'll still have a bass that is too flabby and boomy to play metal.

An experienced set of ears can always tell the difference between a Mesa Triple Rec and a Vox AC30 that has been EQ'ed, with overdrives in front of it.


This.

What we mean by 'Vintage voicing' as opposed to 'Modern voicing' is the response, eq curve, harmonic structure, and the lack of headroom.

None of those in the VJ are for modern metal.

However, they would work in other kinds of metal, though not as well as other options.
#23
one of the problems with this argument that is lost is that..............judas priest is metal and i can get to that tone with a bad monkey, reverb and eq. granted i have a modded VJ. but priest tone is still not that heavy. if you really want a heavy sound you need a metal pedal. but the key with the vj is clean headroom. get that.......than get you a Metal TONE pedal of your choice. and you can get some kick ass tones outta a VJ. are you gonna play death metal..........NO are you gonna be able to play a big hall...........NO...............but in the bedroom it's kick ass!!
___________________________
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Last edited by mmjohn at Oct 3, 2008,
#24
I have the little Epi + Extension Cab. The cab has a 12" Eminence Lady Luck driver stock. I do agree you can get almost any tone you want with the right pedal. I have mine paired with a Boss OD-20 Drive Zone and a Weber Attenuator and am satisfied.

For some samples of the Epi playing metal...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NdEC3eRY4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXzD_1cR-Gg

Some other tones worthy of a listen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Bui1-vDTlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK5dzFwbfS8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDSOtO20-EI

Hoe this helps,

Chris
#25
Quote by al112987
I'm going to reiterate this because its so true.

People, unless you plan on modding the circuit to a significant degree (and I'm not talking about just changing a few values here and there), you will not have an amp voiced for metal, no matter how many OD's you stick in front of it.


You really don't need to do anything other then hook a POD XT Live in front of it. I have absolutely no doubt about what mmjohn is saying. I do what he does everyday. He actually did it the right way with mods to the amp and individual pedals. i'm lazy and opted for amp models and fx's in the POD, but the results are the same. The Valve Junior loves pedals and if you like metal it does to.
Dean Icon PZ
Line 6 Variax 700
Dean V-Wing
Dean ML 79 SilverBurst
MXR M 108
H2O Chorus/Echo
Valve Junior (V3 Head/Cab and Combo)
VHT Special 6
Phonic 620 Power Pod PA
Wampler Super Plextortion
Line 6 Pod HD
#26
Quote by scott58
You really don't need to do anything other then hook a POD XT Live in front of it.


I really want a Pod. This economy stinks! lol

Chris
#27
I hear ya, but maybe somebody will sell you one cheap if they need money bad enough. It really is a great multi and it goes better with a Valve Junior then any SS amp i've tried it with.
Dean Icon PZ
Line 6 Variax 700
Dean V-Wing
Dean ML 79 SilverBurst
MXR M 108
H2O Chorus/Echo
Valve Junior (V3 Head/Cab and Combo)
VHT Special 6
Phonic 620 Power Pod PA
Wampler Super Plextortion
Line 6 Pod HD
#28
Quote by imgooley
This.

What we mean by 'Vintage voicing' as opposed to 'Modern voicing' is the response, eq curve, harmonic structure, and the lack of headroom.

None of those in the VJ are for modern metal.

However, they would work in other kinds of metal, though not as well as other options.


exactly. i'm running an hbe big d with mine, and it can get up to maiden-type levels of dirt while still sounding pretty good, but for more modern stuff, my engl annihilates it. the vj just isn't really made for the modern stuff, the low end's nowhere near tight enough for a start...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#29
Your engl may be better. I've never plugged into one, but to make a sweeping statement that a Vj can't do metal is completely wrong. The thing is with my setup it does everything well. Maybe not the best, but the versatility is outstanding. Fender amp models, hi-watt, mesa, soldano... etc it does them all well. Better then any modeling or fx SS amp i've tried. My only real question is basically what the TS is asking. How will a different cab make it better. I hear what your saying about tight lowend, but I think that has more to do with the cab then the head. My cab starts to sound like it's going to come apart when I get real rude with the tone. The cab is the only upgrade i can think of at the moment that won't require tons of money to do. And I think it will make those other issues better.
Dean Icon PZ
Line 6 Variax 700
Dean V-Wing
Dean ML 79 SilverBurst
MXR M 108
H2O Chorus/Echo
Valve Junior (V3 Head/Cab and Combo)
VHT Special 6
Phonic 620 Power Pod PA
Wampler Super Plextortion
Line 6 Pod HD
#30
Quote by scott58
Your engl may be better. I've never plugged into one, but to make a sweeping statement that a Vj can't do metal is completely wrong. The thing is with my setup it does everything well. Maybe not the best, but the versatility is outstanding. Fender amp models, hi-watt, mesa, soldano... etc it does them all well. Better then any modeling or fx SS amp i've tried. My only real question is basically what the TS is asking. How will a different cab make it better. I hear what your saying about tight lowend, but I think that has more to do with the cab then the head. My cab starts to sound like it's going to come apart when I get real rude with the tone. The cab is the only upgrade i can think of at the moment that won't require tons of money to do. And I think it will make those other issues better.

People aren't saying that it CAN'T do metal, they're saying it's not designed for metal, and it's never going to do it as well as an amp thats specifically designed for it. That's all.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#31
Quote by theoreticmusic
People aren't saying that it CAN'T do metal, they're saying it's not designed for metal, and it's never going to do it as well as an amp thats specifically designed for it. That's all.


I just looked up engl and comparing something like that to a $130 Vj is probably the best compliment a Vj could get. The cheapest 1 I found was like 8X the price. At that rate i would hope it is better then a Valve Junior.
Dean Icon PZ
Line 6 Variax 700
Dean V-Wing
Dean ML 79 SilverBurst
MXR M 108
H2O Chorus/Echo
Valve Junior (V3 Head/Cab and Combo)
VHT Special 6
Phonic 620 Power Pod PA
Wampler Super Plextortion
Line 6 Pod HD
#32
Quote by scott58
I just looked up engl and comparing something like that to a $130 Vj is probably the best compliment a Vj could get. The cheapest 1 I found was like 8X the price. At that rate i would hope it is better then a Valve Junior.

There are better metal amps in that price range, but if you want versatility and you've got a good setup, the VJ is fine.
I'm putting my GAS on hold
for a couple months in order to pimp my ride.


Don't judge me.
#33
The Epi was attractive to me because of all the mods that can be done. Most of the mods are very well documented on the net too so that is a plus. The mods range from simple to the very complex and there are even kits out there you can get off the shelf.

I haven't done any mod as of yet because I have been so pleased with it. It does lack some treble without a pedal but my Weber Attenuator and OD-20 dial that out easily enough. An EQ pedal would be a nice touch too. I guess I am going to do all the external stuff to off-set and if needed, start looking for a mod. So far though, it is a nice unit.

Frankly, if I were in the market for an amp again, I'd seriously look at, and try to plug into a Blackheart. I do know it would still be a hard sell to get me away from the Epi.

Just my .02

Chris
#34
Quote by scott58
Your engl may be better. I've never plugged into one, but to make a sweeping statement that a Vj can't do metal is completely wrong. The thing is with my setup it does everything well. Maybe not the best, but the versatility is outstanding. Fender amp models, hi-watt, mesa, soldano... etc it does them all well. Better then any modeling or fx SS amp i've tried. My only real question is basically what the TS is asking. How will a different cab make it better. I hear what your saying about tight lowend, but I think that has more to do with the cab then the head. My cab starts to sound like it's going to come apart when I get real rude with the tone. The cab is the only upgrade i can think of at the moment that won't require tons of money to do. And I think it will make those other issues better.


i wasn't comparing the engl to the VJ, that'd be daft considering the difference in price. i just meant that, as theoretic said, the vj isn't really aimed at metal. while i'd agree that the cab cab make a big difference, it's not just in the cab, the design of the amp will make a major difference to tightness and suitability for metal etc.


Quote by theoreticmusic
People aren't saying that it CAN'T do metal, they're saying it's not designed for metal, and it's never going to do it as well as an amp thats specifically designed for it. That's all.


exactly.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#35
yep, the evj standard isn't a metal amp and if I had tonnes of cheddar I'd probly buy something like a Krank amp for metal, but it would not suprise me if one day someone did some great metal recording, and people think, 'was that really done on a little evj?'

The other simple fact that metal can have many different sounds ie new, modern... the sweeping generalisation that evj can't do metal isn't really fair. Actually maybe I should have said heavy rock, thats probly more what I'm into, band sounds like Tool, Placebo...I think the evj could do that well.

If you need to tigthen the bass, there maybe very simple mods that can be done, one suggestion I heard is to change the coupling caps, also use a sealed cab for more bass to suit metal.

What do people think about heavy rock (ie tool, placebo) and the EVJ?
Last edited by Mattlikesguitar at Oct 5, 2008,
#36
Quote by Mattlikesguitar
yep, the evj standard isn't a metal amp and if I had tonnes of cheddar I'd probly buy something like a Krank amp for metal, but it would not suprise me if one day someone did some great metal recording, and people think, 'was that really done on a little evj?'

The other simple fact that metal can have many different sounds ie new, modern... the sweeping generalisation that evj can't do metal isn't really fair. Actually maybe I should have said heavy rock, thats probly more what I'm into, band sounds like Tool, Placebo...I think the evj could do that well.

If you need to tigthen the bass, there maybe very simple mods that can be done, one suggestion I heard is to change the coupling caps, also use a sealed cab for more bass to suit metal.

What do people think about heavy rock (ie tool, placebo) and the EVJ?

It might be able to swing it. I'd get a Metal Muff and just run it through the stock cab.
#37
yeah, it could probably do hard rock with a good enough pedal (i'm not too familiar with tool or placebo though, i'm going by what i'd call hard rock, stuff like van halen etc.)...
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#38
thats why i use and recomend the celestion g12k. its has the largest magnet of all the g12 series 50oz. it has a huge bottom end and midrange hump. it's a bit pricey but it's the perfect compliment to the VJ. and i can nail early metllica tones.........and to me thats metal. will it do death metal.........i doubt it. but i don't play death metal. i play metllica, megadeth, pantera. and with the mods i've done and a metal muff i get those killer tones!
___________________________
Playing on some new gear....review to follow
Last edited by mmjohn at Oct 5, 2008,
#39
Here's the best mod info for the VJ I've found, might even expand peoples opinion of what the EVJ can do with mods, ie metal!

http://www.s2amps.com/docs/vj_kit_inst.pdf

one thing about the EVJ is the lack of clean headroom, which is cool for cranked power valve sound, but (I'm not sure) some people might prefer to have more clean headroom in the power amp and instead rely on preamp distortion for metal. But even then the EVJ could be played clean but just at an even lower volume...
Last edited by Mattlikesguitar at Oct 10, 2008,