#1
Hey guys i posted this song (or the original version) a while ago but i soon realized that the intro sounded really close to some other songs so i decided to completely re do the first half. It took about a month of nothing and a sudden spark to get me to finish it last night. So im posting it again this time with new bass (not complete) and some drums so let me know what you guys think. Constructive criticism only please.

Thanks
Attachments:
Empire.zip
Quote by csn00b
I hate seeing cute girls topless and what not, it just feels wrong.
Last edited by jpgilbert701 at Oct 2, 2008,
#2
Ha, it pretty much smokes, good job. I remember this song from sometime ago as you posted a powertab along with it. Sure, it was close to PtH, but that's a positive for me, as I like their style and don't mind having more of that music. My problem with the beginning wasn't so much that it sounded like a certain PtH song, but that it wasn't too varied. Well your new beginning certainly is different. I dig the first part with the intertwining lead guitars, almost sounds like a delay sometimes, gives it an urgent drive. The rest of the new beginning riff is more like standart metalcore, swedish meldo. Certainly good in itself, nothing bad about that, but personally I had no problems if you brought more PtHisms to the table. Later on you bring one of my favorite riffs of the old song, that swaggering bluesrockish thing, and the chorus climax was really epic in the best sense of the word. Good thing you revisited it again in the outro, it is certainly gold stuff and deserves to be repeated. For the outro I just wished you upped the ante again once more, maybe with some more engaged melodic leads or a solo take, which would kick this over the edge. Middle/later part with the breathing rest and buildup part, well, I'm certainly sure it works with an added vocal crescendo in the real version. Sweet harmonies, though I wouldn't mind some cleans here or a more distinct drumpattern than primarily snare rolls.

Definetly gold stuff you have here, though, and I would kill for a GP tab version (how'd you add the drums, by the way, if you have worked in Powertab?) because that sounds like something I would love to play. Cheers!
#3
i actually used gp on this version. The drums are there just to give a sense of rhythm but im sure they'll change eventually.
Quote by csn00b
I hate seeing cute girls topless and what not, it just feels wrong.
#4
The drums are excellent as it is, they get the job more than done and don't distract with arkward transitions or anything. Do you compose alone or do you have a band, in which case I'm sure the instrument tracks will evolve naturally according to the input of the respective members. Hey, cool that you used GP this time. Would you mind posting the tab ? You'll get more responses that way, and I'd love to practice this tune.
#5
Yeah i actually play in a band. I would post a gp tab of it but ive heard of people stealing songs on this website and honestly im kind of scared of that happening to me. If there was some way that i could be assured that this would not happen i wouldnt mind posting the tab but i dont see anyway of it not happening.
Quote by csn00b
I hate seeing cute girls topless and what not, it just feels wrong.
#6
Yeah i actually play in a band.

sweet, any recordings to hear yet ?

stealing happens, yes, but it's a really minor issue (ie. actual number of incidents vs. numbers of tabs posted). If it happens anyway, it's better to have your tabs out in the open, so lots of people know them and can call people out on it. I actually caught the last big case here some months ago, dude took a dozen songs from me and others to pose around and elicit some e-fame here, but otherwise no (monetary, for example) damage had been done, that punk got banned and the record (concerning credits) is straight again on that. If you're worried about stealing, it's perfectly fine not to post anything, on the other hand you miss out on critiques, input and overwhelmingly honest appreciation. Seriously, if someone really cares to take your stuff, they'll even rip it from a midi. Your best insurance is actually getting as many people as possible to see/listen to your tab, so they'll recognize it again if it pops up elsewhere.
#7
Actually you have a point because you could import the midi onto GP. I guess ill post the tabs up if i get more views on it.

Yeah actually you can check us out on myspace.

www.myspace.com/whentheskydims

The recordings are pretty rough but we are planning on redoing them in a few months.
Quote by csn00b
I hate seeing cute girls topless and what not, it just feels wrong.
#8
>bump<

Hey, thanks very much for including a GP tab in your OP's attachements! However, it seems like the GP tab is a straight midi import and thus not very cleaned up (fingerings, note placements, bass completely missing). It would be a shame not to hear (and see) this wonderful song up to its full potential, so could you please upload a more refined GP tab ? (You've said you composed it in GP anyway, why not simply upload that master-tab instead of a midi import ?)
#9
Yeah i did that after looking at the tab. It was realllllllly weird lol.
Quote by csn00b
I hate seeing cute girls topless and what not, it just feels wrong.
#10
hey, great now ! still (haha) though, the bass is missing from the middle to the end of the piece (intentional ?).

Now I feel I can critique properly. Again, I love the intro, the intertwining leads create such a evocative mood. However, rhythm guitar 2 holds its chords even during its leadparts ? Nevermind that it wouldn't be possible to play, it would also sound very muddy. I'd find some better way to delegate this part. Maybe have a designated third rhythm guitar for the chords alone (and hey, don't be afraid to use something more colorful than just standart Echord, it would enhance it greatly) or shift some more of that backdrop over to the key section.
The melodeath riff looks great, no complaints here. Don't know how to feel about that blast part later on. Sure it serves as a variation from the former section's straight beat, but it still rubs me kinda the wrong way. Or maybe it was the harmonic backdrop of that section, bass and octave rhythm follow the lead pattern abit too closely, there's some depth thats missing here. Here could a more contrapunctual approach (moving in different directions) open up more harmonic space.
Riff in bar 35 ff is my favorite, as you know. Great stuff! If I recall correctly, in your earlier version you had some more PtHesque riffs, or at least extended this particular riffs with more break variations ? Sad to see those not included here.
Absolutely no complaints about the chorus, a clear climax centerpiece with catchy and moving lead. I'm sure there will be some great vocal melodies that can be applied here.
Not so sure about the next sections, which are basically a big buildup. The chordal harmonies in bar 56 ff could be split up for two guitars, would make for greater clarity and more possibilites. A clean segue interlude would do nicely here. In the later buildup I'd rather see the second guitar support the lead more. If you need some place to relegate the chords to, hey, remember that key track / third rhythm track you used earlier ? Also, as the bass is missing from those parts, if you include it I'm sure it can provide some foundation upon which the guitars can be more free to play a bit more adventurous parts. The later buildup in itself is nicely, if just a tad bit too long. I like how you subtly introduced the main rhythm of the later riffs here, it feels really urgent and driving and explodes masterfully in the oddtime section, which maybe abused the C# chord too much. And back to the chorus again, great. Like I said, I just wished you upped the ante more in the outro chorus, like a tasteful lead solo etc. would kick this really over the edge.

Anyway. If your band is gonna play this, you have grade-A material on your hands here! I hope you get some more input here, it's excellent stuff.
#11
-yeah the chords on the second guitar are just there because i was too lazy to put them in the other tracks lol.
-The bass is not complete again due to laziness of writing it out and a lack of ideas.
-The blasting on the drums is my least favorite part to be honest.
-Those other PtH riffs you're talking about were dropped after i realized that they were too similar to Nautical. I tried to do something different with them but nothing sounded right.

I was planning on adding one of those PTH sweep things where they kinda do a start stop thing somewhere in there. At the end (instead of repeating of the chorus) i was also planning on taking your word and adding in a clean part with some piano behind it to kind of calm down the song. I know that if i added the clean part i could go in a new direction with the later part of the song only to bring back the chorus and finally end it. I will try and work on it within the next days because we might play this song within a month or so at our school's rally.

Thanks for all the critiques.
Quote by csn00b
I hate seeing cute girls topless and what not, it just feels wrong.
#13
First off, let me say that this is an awesome song.

Now then, on to a real critique.
I really loved how you used the tapping riff as a rhythm in the beginning. That riff was undoubtedly one of my favorites. Then, the section that came after that was great. It flowed nicely, and fit the melody perfectly. However, good luck trying to play that one riff where you go from 2nd to 15th fret and then back in 16th notes . But, it still sounds great. The riff after that was good, reminded me a lot of Dream Theater, or maybe Warmen, but the transition into this riff wasn't the greatest. Perhaps a drum fill before hand? Don't get me wrong, the riff is good, but the transition needs work. Exact same thing with the next riff. Great riff, but the transition could be smoother. The riff after was really crushing, (thats a good thing), and really added to the song. I LOVED the chord section, but don't think it needed to be repeated twice. The riff after it was really good. Bars 89-97 literally blew me away. I loved the time changes, but then again, I always love that sort of stuff. Really great job there. Anddddd then the coda. Get rid of that. You don't need to play that whole section again. Just end it where it was.


Great song though!

Crit mine?
http://ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=970594
Thanks!
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