#1
I hope someone can help me out here.

I started off booking a local band with my company.
They were a brand new band when I started working with them.
They still did a little booking but I had more contacts...so we did up a contract and all that stuff.
Thing were going great...still are!

Well, as I said...they were a brand new band.
I started doing a lot of other things for them than just booking.

So, they asked if I wanted the roll of manager.
Granted, I had never managed a band before...but I know how to do it.
I've done lots of reading and been around band managers, etc.

Well...this started a few months ago. And things are fine.
They dont communicate with me very well. But I'm trying to "train" them to get better on that.

Well, the other night..I went with two of them to a show of a band they both REALLY like.
I had emailed the band and the bands booking agent regarding having my guys open for them. The lead singer fo the band surprisingly emailed me back. Said he listened to them and they sounded good and that I should have the venue contact their booking agent to set it up.
Well, the venue said that there was no more room on the bill.
I wrote the band guy back and he was very nice...
said that he'd keep us in mind for next time and to come to the show anyway and bring a CD. He also said he just opened a studio and that he would like to possibly work with my guys.

Well...trying to make a long story short.
My guys can be punks. We went to the show...with a CD. I brought one just in case they forgot.
After the show, I told them to go find the lead singer...since afterall, he did as for a CD.
Both my guys were like, "no! i'm not gonna be "that guy" that waits around on a band like a groupie and gives him some cd he probably wont ever listen to..."
blah blah blah.

And they had the nerve to say that networking is BS....which anyone in the music industry knows is such an untrue statement.

Well, i got REALLY annoyed with them...
As a manager, I went so far as to contact this other band, and make sure my guys brought a CD since he was interested.
And they are too scared to go the rest of the way with it.

It could have been a very good opportunity for them.
But they blew it.

So yeah, I got frustrated, saying thing like how they are so unappreciative.
And they tell me that I cant tell them what to do, etc.

I need some advice...
Was I wrong in getting upset with them and trying to push them to do this??

They mentioned that they want to have a meeting with me.
I said, what, you guys dont want me to be manager anymore?
And they say, "well, thats what the meeting is gonna be about".

So what the heck??
#2
I think they were just being jackasses, you were right to be angry, but id still say give them another chance, if there still jerk offs, well then its your choice :P
#3
well is your right to tell them that. it's their problem if they do not want to show the cd.
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#4
Thats not being a punk, its being a dumba*s lil b*tch. If they want to keep stupid and never break out anywhere then f*ck em. Youre doing your job.
You dont ask for your band to be managed and then not let the manager help the band through some networking. Im sorry if these guys are your friends but I get the feelin that theyre just a bunch of fcukin wankers.

Red Foreman impression:
"............dumbas(s)es."
#5
it seems to me that they want a manager and someone to do manager-like things (booking, networking, promoting, i work as their publicist, etc, etc, etc) BUT...they dont want anyone telling them what to do.
so i dont know what to do.
should i just tell them i dont want to have the awkward meeting and resign from my manager duties and stick directly with booking??
they only thing is that if i dont do that other stuff...like the promoting, networking, etc....then who is??
they do a little of it but arent as good at is as they could be.
when i book shows, i like for people to show up.
so when i book them...and let them handle the promo-ing since im dropping that responsibility with my manager title, if the shows are empty then it'll reflecton me and my booking business.

but i shouldnt keep doing all these other things if they dont want to call me manager and if they are trying to be selective about it right??
#6
But you werent telling them what to do. You were helping the band. Is that not exactly what a manager does?? Id drop em all together.

Tell em (Garth Algar impression):
"Well, you know what you can do with your band! You can stick it*airplane flies overhead**angry face and hand gestures*until the handle breaks off and you have to get a doctor to pull it out again!"


seriously though, if I ran into another incident after the one you mentioned Id be done completely.
#7
They obviously havent got the committment to the band as they should....

When you go to the meeting, lay it down straight out..... have the meeting on your terms. Tell them that you have done your best for them, but you can only do so much, and they too need to contribute. |Then you tell them that if they cant get there act together, then you arent gonna manage them anymore..

That will get them thinking
#8
Well, you said they wanted a meeting with you? Try to explain to them, while trying not to get mad, what was going on and why it was a good chance for them. Did they realize you had actually talked to the guy and he had heard their music? Be reasonable with them and everything, but if they're still idiots about it then ditch em so they don't drag down your booking business.
#9
Quote by The4thHorsemen
Well, you said they wanted a meeting with you? Try to explain to them, while trying not to get mad, what was going on and why it was a good chance for them. Did they realize you had actually talked to the guy and he had heard their music? Be reasonable with them and everything, but if they're still idiots about it then ditch em so they don't drag down your booking business.


+1

If you speak in a controlled manner, and they're still angry, then they need to grow a bit.
#11
It sounds like you're doing your job, and doing it right.

The question is... why aren't they?

A couple of possibilities:

1. Because this was a band they *really* like, they just clammed right up and chickened out due to being star struck.
2. Allowed their naivety to take control and cause them to think they know best.

If it is either of those, let them learn from it and cut them some slack on the condition that they actually learn from it and not repeat those kinds of mistakes.

3. They don't trust you or don't take you seriously.

If that is the case, dump 'em. Now. You've got better things to do than waste your time on a group of kids who won't allow themselves to be led by someone more knowledgeable than they are.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#12
Even though your band acted like spoilt little prima donnas, it can be argued that as a manager, your job is to be the 'exclusive' go between for the band you reprisent and any business venture they wish to enter into, gigs included.
Band members, being musicians, can be prone to outbusts of egotistical behaviour (hey, it's an artistic thing ) so it's quite often good business sense to not involve them too much with initial contact with another band, just in case they say something egotistical and stupid and screw up a deal that you are working on on their behalf.
A friend of mine who used to manage some quite well known bands in the late 80s and 90s once told me that if the manager is doing his job right, the first time his band has any direct contact with another band is when they actualy meet at the gig you have arranged for them to play at, whether you have personally arranged the gig or via a promoter or agent.
He even used to have this as a clause in his managerial contracts that basicaly stated that once the band have all agreed to take part or seek to take part in any business venture, they would then leave the manager to sort out all the details of that particular venture and not get involved in any way.
What you did was involve the band.
Now, I'm not saying you were particularly wrong to involve the band, (everyone has their own way of doing business and if it were me in your place, I'd probably do the same, just as an exercise in networking to 'train' 'em up as you say.) just that many managers purposely avoid involving the band in order to avoid the situation that you have found yourself in.
There's an old saying, 'Too many cooks spoil the broth', and this would be a prime example.
#13
First, as a manager, I agree with Slacker. You should have been the one to track down the lead singer of that other band and give him the CD - bonus points if you have one or two of your guys with you.

Aside from that, you need to explain to the band that they have responsibilities as well, and one of them is to make advancing their career a priority (this should be in your contract). A lot of bands tend to forget this and think it's the manager's job to do everything.

And I hope when they asked you to manage them instead of just booking, you gave them a separate management agreement. If you did then you would have a specified term, meaning they can't fire you until the term is over unless you agree. That is in place specifically because bands tend to fire their managers over stupid things like this. If you don't have a management agreement with them, and they decide they don't want you as their manager, then I suggest you just move on.

Also, when you have that meeting (and regular meetings are incredibly important when you're managing a band, btw), don't get upset. Just be professional, honest, and fair.
Last edited by teddytheturtle at Oct 2, 2008,
#14
thanks for all of the advice.
all the feedback has been great and i'm taking everything you guys say into consideration.
#15
I was one of those 'groupies', waited after a show and scored an opening slot. It was our best & biggest show we ever played.

At your current level, booking and promotion are top priority. It should be an organized team effort. If you need a meeting to decide what each individual's role is, then do it.
#16
tbh if the band didnt want to do it you should have left it UP to them or you could have always done it yourself, im sure the main bands singer was a lovely guy but he was probably just being polite to you in the emails, most bands have no influence on who else is playing.

I would say instead of waiting round for him after the show as the manager you should have asked someone if you could talk to the venues promotions manager or the gigs promoter and given them the CD. Explained to them that you are managing a band in the area and ask them to listen to the cd and consider putting them on for any upcomming support slots they would be suitable for,
#17
Quote by FuzzyBear
most bands have no influence on who else is playing.


This is wrong. If a band is big enough to be with a booking agency, especially if they're signed to a label, they (along with their agent and manager) have all the influence on which bands open for them. The promoter can usually give suggestions, but ultimately it's the headliner's decision.
#18
However, if the tour or show is being arranged/promoted by a third party, it is that third party that makes those choices. Sure, the band *can* ask for this band or that band to open, but the reason they pay managers, booking agents, promoters, etc. is so they don't have to deal with the business end of things. They have given that job to someone else for a reason.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#19
Quote by teddytheturtle
This is wrong. If a band is big enough to be with a booking agency, especially if they're signed to a label, they (along with their agent and manager) have all the influence on which bands open for them. The promoter can usually give suggestions, but ultimately it's the headliner's decision.



well i can only comment on where im from, and i know a lot of the managers and promoters in the local area here

sure big touring bands will have tour support organised by the label/management, but local bands here will always be booked by the promoter

if your in the UK and you want to play a barfly or a carling academy gig you really need to talk to the venues booking agent
#20
Quote by tagyoureit
I was one of those 'groupies', waited after a show and scored an opening slot.


Erm... that's not exactly what a 'groupie' does. If I were you I really wouldn't go around telling people that you've been 'one of those groupies.'


Sorry if that sounds condecending in any way, you probably already know that and simply said it as a gag, but you'd be amazed how many musicians have no idea what a 'groupie' is.... until it's too late.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Oct 6, 2008,