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#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2viTzZtT_us&feature=related

Some of my favorite musicians are gay as well as a few friends which is fine with me because I'm tolerant.

But I don't feel that they're teaching tolerance so much as they're teaching acceptance. There's a big difference there and I believe tolerance is a greater virtue because you can be irritated with an annoying baby crying at a bus station, but you can tolerate it because that's the mature thing to do.

Acceptance would be embracing the annoying siren of the babie's wail simply because you were taught to do so as a child.


I also feel that they are introducing sexuality to young children way too soon and are teaching them to be ''open minded'' about trying ''new things''

On a final note; If this is all about preventing some gay kids from being insulted at school than thrice I think it's wrong. If a gay kid will be insulted for his sexuality so be it. His adversity should teach him how to overcome many of lifes problems in the long run and build inner strength of character for believing in who you are.

Thoughts ?
#2
All they're doing is teaching kids that the stigma placed on homosexuality by many in todays society is wrong and quite frankly fucking stupid.
#3
i think it's asinine that they're teaching them this at such an age. They haven't even had the talk about sex with their parents, and they're learning about homosexual activity and slang terms like 'faggot'? Sure, it's good to have a tolerant foundation in your life, but kids this age are still extremely susceptible to influences that will completely and irreversibly affect their psyches later on in life.
#4
It's always a good sign when the comments and ratings are disabled.
#5
Quote by Glen'sHeroicAct
i think it's asinine that they're teaching them this at such an age. They haven't even had the talk about sex with their parents, and they're learning about homosexual activity and slang terms like 'faggot'? Sure, it's good to have a tolerant foundation in your life, but kids this age are still extremely susceptible to influences that will completely and irreversibly affect their psyches later on in life.

+1
#6
Quote by Glen'sHeroicAct
i think it's asinine that they're teaching them this at such an age. They haven't even had the talk about sex with their parents, and they're learning about homosexual activity and slang terms like 'faggot'? Sure, it's good to have a tolerant foundation in your life, but kids this age are still extremely susceptible to influences that will completely and irreversibly affect their psyches later on in life.
They were asked if they'd heard any anti-homosexual language used and it was the girl herself who raised the word faggot.

Tell me this, if they were being taught about racial or religious prejudice would you all still feel this was unacceptable?
#7
Quote by freedoms_stain


Tell me this, if they were being taught about racial or religious prejudice would you all still feel this was unacceptable?


No, because then they wouldn't be parading gay sexuality into these kid's faces, who probably aren't old enough to have had a talk of sex with their parents.


Personally the ''gay pride'' parades annoy me because you don't see me getting up on a float to elaborate how straight I am.


I can see the good they're trying to accomplish, I'd just save it for when they're older or make it a part of a mandatory ''morals'' classroom
#8
Quote by freedoms_stain
All they're doing is teaching kids that the stigma placed on homosexuality by many in todays society is wrong and quite frankly fucking stupid.


in your option... but probably over 50% of America still don't like it.
#9
You seem like a pretty prejudice person.


If I had to teach my kid one of the two:

1. Gay people are different but in no way harmful, so don't harm them and try not to have bias against them.

2. They are annoying like a baby crying and we only need to pretend to tolerate them, but in no way should be we respect them.


It's not a hard pick for me, sorry. This is what I seem to be getting from you.
#10
Quote by Rising
No, because then they wouldn't be parading gay sexuality into these kid's faces, who probably aren't old enough to have had a talk of sex with their parents.


Personally the ''gay pride'' parades annoy me because you don't see me getting up on a float to elaborate how straight I am.


I can see the good they're trying to accomplish, I'd just save it for when they're older or make it a part of a mandatory ''morals'' classroom
They're not parading gay sexuality. I didn't hear a single word about bumming, all that was said was it's ok for people to be gay, they're people too and they don't deserve the prejudice.

No, you're not on a float but you're not fighting massive social stigma.

Attitudes are adopted early, if there's a little girl heard someone calling someone else a faggot and other anti-homosexual sentiments at an elementary school then she's going to think that's ok if no one is telling her otherwise.
#11
Quote by freedoms_stain

Tell me this, if they were being taught about racial or religious prejudice would you all still feel this was unacceptable?


Yes because schools are to teach intellectual things not morals. Schools should never teach morals.
#12
It was interesting that the uploader's named was "BornTwyce", affiliating itself with the religious right. I guess that it doesn't surprise me, but its obvious from that and the other video's that he put up that he's quite heavily into conservative propaganda. I mean, he's got video's trying to link Obama to terrorism and debunk global warming as a myth. I wouldn't really take much he's trying to get across seriously.
#13
Quote by ViperScale
in your option... but probably over 50% of America still don't like it.
Of course, I forgot that majority opinion stops something from being fucking stupid.

Oh wait, fuck that.
#14
Quote by Rising
I'd just save it for when they're older or make it a part of a mandatory ''morals'' classroom


If they taught "morals" class at school I would flip a bitch. No school is gonna ****ing teach me what my morality is gonna be. That is a terrible idea.
#15
Quote by freedoms_stain
Of course, I forgot that majority opinion stops something from being fucking stupid.

Oh wait, fuck that.


Well i think being is a pedophile is ok so that means it isn't stupid right... I think to catch a predator proved that enough of us feel that way that it should be taught too. It doesn't matter if you think it is hurting a kid because i don't.
#16
Quote by ViperScale
Yes because schools are to teach intellectual things not morals. Schools should never teach morals.



Err... society probably should teach the youth that hate crimes are not okay. In no way should schools indoctrinate children into certain political or religious platforms, but teaching kids not to hate eachother is not a problem in my book.
#17
Quote by freedoms_stain
They were asked if they'd heard any anti-homosexual language used and it was the girl herself who raised the word faggot.

Tell me this, if they were being taught about racial or religious prejudice would you all still feel this was unacceptable?

i'm not complaining about the tolerance portion, i'm for that aspect. However, the sexual issues (and questions that the kids are bound to ask) are too mature for kids of that age. There are multiple reasons this is a problem:

1. the school is undermining the parents' rights to teach their kids about sex and related subjects in their own environment.
2. the kids are learning about an alternative sexual preference before they even know what sex is, or what the normal act of sex entails (and don't tell me that one is no more normal than the other, we're created with certain organs for a reason).
#18
Quote by ViperScale
Yes because schools are to teach intellectual things not morals. Schools should never teach morals.
Common sense is academic.
#19
Quote by garden of grey
Err... society probably should teach the youth that hate crimes are not okay. In no way should schools indoctrinate children into certain political or religious platforms, but teaching kids not to hate eachother is not a problem in my book.


I don't think anyone ever said to hate homosexual but that doesn't mean you have to think it is ok. There is a difference between tolerance and acceptance, but people tend to blend them together.

Quote by freedoms_stain
Common sense is academic.


Intellectual things was maybe a bad word. I mean anything outside of morals because morals are primarily based on religion which can't be taught.
#20
Quote by ViperScale
Well i think being is a pedophile is ok so that means it isn't stupid right... I think to catch a predator proved that enough of us feel that way that it should be taught too. It doesn't matter if you think it is hurting a kid because i don't.
Try harder.

Quote by Glen'sHeroicAct
i'm not complaining about the tolerance portion, i'm for that aspect. However, the sexual issues (and questions that the kids are bound to ask) are too mature for kids of that age. There are multiple reasons this is a problem:

1. the school is undermining the parents' rights to teach their kids about sex and related subjects in their own environment.
2. the kids are learning about an alternative sexual preference before they even know what sex is, or what the normal act of sex entails (and don't tell me that one is no more normal than the other, we're created with certain organs for a reason).
Rubbish.

1) This doesn't have to have anything to do with sex. And if questions are asked they give the same answer they give to a heterosexual question: That's for big boys and girls.

2) They know that mummies and daddies live together and sleep in the same room, all they have to know is it's ok for two men or two women to do the same.
#21
Quote by ViperScale
Intellectual things was maybe a bad word. I mean anything outside of morals because morals are primarily based on religion which can't be taught.
Bullshit.

I guess the UK must be full of immoral bastards since most of us don't subscribe to or practice a religion.

Morals in the modern day society = common sense.
#22
Quote by freedoms_stain
Try harder.


Well what is your argument to disprove what i said? You have to give reasoning to why that train of thought it wrong. Until you come up with something else i am correct. Your only excuse for why i am aganist homosexuality is because i think it is wrong and you don't. So if i think pedophiles aren't hurting kids then how is it any different?

If they taught in school that it was perfectly normal for older adults to do those things to kids they would not have any problem with it having happen to them. The reason people grow up with disorders from it is because everyone talks about have it is a bad thing. It is no different then homosexuality is it not?
#23
Quote by freedoms_stain
Bullshit.

I guess the UK must be full of immoral bastards since most of us don't subscribe to or practice a religion.

Morals in the modern day society = common sense.


That originally came from religion. Just because you don't follow a religion anymore doesn't mean that the morals that came from it don't exist anymore. That is like saying death metal didn't come from rock because it came from metal... but metal came from hard rock, which came from rock.
#24
Quote by ViperScale

Intellectual things was maybe a bad word. I mean anything outside of morals because morals are primarily based on religion which can't be taught.



Morals are rooted in natural law. Religious morals are spinoffs of natural law that have just aged.


All this being said, morality is very subjective. I don't believe we should teach kids specific morals, but "don't hate eachother" doesn't seem like it would have too many negative repercussions.

Quote by ViperScale
That originally came from religion. Just because you don't follow a religion anymore doesn't mean that the morals that came from it don't exist anymore. That is like saying death metal didn't come from rock because it came from metal... but metal came from hard rock, which came from rock.



Again, do you know what natural law is?

It's pretty obvious that the most common morals are related to the greater survival of our species. Any groups that thought it was moral to kill or steal from the community aren't here any more. Past that there are more iffy morals, which further proves that morals are subjective.

No other species needed a religion to come up with some general morals. Vampire bats (check them out, they're really interesting as far as this topic goes) and chimps have some pretty universal morals and they are certainly below us as far as mental abilities go. It's stange to think so many people believe ethics are religiously rooted.
Last edited by garden of grey at Oct 1, 2008,
#25
Quote by ViperScale
I don't think anyone ever said to hate homosexual but that doesn't mean you have to think it is ok. There is a difference between tolerance and acceptance, but people tend to blend them together.

Ahh!!! It's you again!!!

Why, exactly, is homosexuality wrong?

Quote by ViperScale
Intellectual things was maybe a bad word. I mean anything outside of morals because morals are primarily based on religion which can't be taught.

Yea, Texas is a fucking paradise compared to the atheist nations of Europe, isn't it?
Quote by Twist of fate
Aliens can invade us. Apparently you've never heard of pearl harbor


#26
Quote by ViperScale
Well what is your argument to disprove what i said? You have to give reasoning to why that train of thought it wrong. Until you come up with something else i am correct. Your only excuse for why i am aganist homosexuality is because i think it is wrong and you don't. So if i think pedophiles aren't hurting kids then how is it any different?

If they taught in school that it was perfectly normal for older adults to do those things to kids they would not have any problem with it having happen to them. The reason people grow up with disorders from it is because everyone talks about have it is a bad thing. It is no different then homosexuality is it not?
Pedophila is harmful homosexuality is not.

Common sense is academic. Your interpretation of the logic was flawed because you viewed it in a 1 dimensional lane without considering anything else. Thus you failed.

Try thinking harder.
Quote by ViperScale
That originally came from religion. Just because you don't follow a religion anymore doesn't mean that the morals that came from it don't exist anymore. That is like saying death metal didn't come from rock because it came from metal... but metal came from hard rock, which came from rock.
Humanity predates religion.

Nature predates humanity.

The natural moral code is easy to see if you look.

Try researching the Evolutionary Stable State. It relates to behaviour and morality.
#27
Quote by garden of grey
Morals are rooted in natural law. Religious morals are spinoffs of natural law that have just aged.


All this being said, morality is very subjective. I don't believe we should teach kids specific morals, but "don't hate eachother" doesn't seem like it would have too many negative repercussions.


"Don't hate each other" is fine but not "you have to agree with this because it is right and ok". I do not hate homosexuals at all but they should not teach these kids this kind of thing because their families beliefs may not align with what they are being taught and they are too young to form their own opinions. It would be better if the kids were older.
#29
Quote by freedoms_stain
Pedophila is harmful homosexuality is not.

Common sense is academic. Your interpretation of the logic was flawed because you viewed it in a 1 dimensional lane without considering anything else. Thus you failed.

Try thinking harder.


You think pedophila is harmful. In all honesty it is not harmful in any way. Explain to me how it is harmful? People have sexual relations all over the world every day so how is it harmful? The only reason that it has any negative affect is because people say it is bad. If people said it was a good thing then noone would have any disorder from it.
#30
natural law is the dumbest thing I ever heard of. It is some fairy tale set of laws that just "exist", are you kidding me that is dumber then believing in god.

Also why is it wrong to steal? It is an easy meal that you don't have to work as hard. Is that not natural for an animal to take an easy meal?
#31
Quote by freedoms_stain
Try harder.

Rubbish.

1) This doesn't have to have anything to do with sex. And if questions are asked they give the same answer they give to a heterosexual question: That's for big boys and girls.

2) They know that mummies and daddies live together and sleep in the same room, all they have to know is it's ok for two men or two women to do the same.

i'm going to have to go ahead and say what you're saying is rubbish as well. You think kids never try and find things out for themselves about sex? Everyone i know heard the word sex before their parents told them, and now with the internet, kids look up words they don't know on google. Don't tell me they don't, i have friends with younger siblings who have asked them questions about uncomfortable subjects, having said they looked them up on google and gotten confusing results. You can prattle on about tolerance and how the schools won't be exposing these kids to mature subjects, but the truth is that they're exposing the kids to things that they will be bound to be curious about, and that will lead them to exploration.

Now exploration is absolutely fine when it's simply about subjects that the school was trying to bring up, but when a kid searches for something regarding homosexuality, the thing they're most likely to find will entail sexual activity - there you go, a five year old is learning about sex and alternative sexual preferences. A five year old. Sex education classes start in the ninth grade. That's when experts have decided kids are mature enough to get the details about sex. Not at five years of age. We're already seeing the results of a society where kids are becoming sexually inquisitive at younger and younger ages; there have been multiple news articles about kids having sex in their classrooms like animals. What is the cause of this? No one was doing this ten years ago, so why has it started now? Kids are simply being exposed to sexual content at younger ages, and it's having bad results. Now I don't care if it's homosexual content or heterosexual content, kids should not be exposed to these topics at five years of age.

(my god, i sound like a forty year old PTA member)
#32
Quote by ViperScale
You think pedophila is harmful. In all honesty it is not harmful in any way. Explain to me how it is harmful? People have sexual relations all over the world every day so how is it harmful? The only reason that it has any negative affect is because people say it is bad. If people said it was a good thing then noone would have any disorder from it.

Because children don't have the mental capacity to really know whether it's a good or a bad thing that they're getting fucked up the ass. I mean, if You really don't think pedophilia is inherently bad?
Quote by Twist of fate
Aliens can invade us. Apparently you've never heard of pearl harbor


#33
Quote by ViperScale
You think pedophila is harmful. In all honesty it is not harmful in any way. Explain to me how it is harmful? People have sexual relations all over the world every day so how is it harmful? The only reason that it has any negative affect is because people say it is bad. If people said it was a good thing then noone would have any disorder from it.
It creates victims.

Are you fucking stupid or something?

Pedophilia = sexual abuse of a child.

Let me emphasise one of the words there Abuse

And in the event that we are to dense to comprehend: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=abuse&x=0&y=0
#34
Quote by ViperScale
You think pedophila is harmful. In all honesty it is not harmful in any way. Explain to me how it is harmful? People have sexual relations all over the world every day so how is it harmful? The only reason that it has any negative affect is because people say it is bad. If people said it was a good thing then noone would have any disorder from it.


And thus Beakwithteeth leaves this argument because he was arguing the same negative point you were. He now realizes that if he continues in this, no matter how hard he tries, he will be associated with you, and thus, associated with idiocy.

Good luck with this argument...
#35
Quote by ViperScale
You think pedophila is harmful. In all honesty it is not harmful in any way. Explain to me how it is harmful? People have sexual relations all over the world every day so how is it harmful? The only reason that it has any negative affect is because people say it is bad. If people said it was a good thing then noone would have any disorder from it.



Quote by ViperScale
natural law is the dumbest thing I ever heard of. It is some fairy tale set of laws that just "exist", are you kidding me that is dumber then believing in god.

Also why is it wrong to steal? It is an easy meal that you don't have to work as hard. Is that not natural for an animal to take an easy meal?



....Are you a troll?

Whatever, have fun in low IQ land. Keep in mind I'm usually willing to argue with some pretty fringe people, I just can't take plain dumb.
#36
Quote by ViperScale
natural law is the dumbest thing I ever heard of. It is some fairy tale set of laws that just "exist", are you kidding me that is dumber then believing in god.

Also why is it wrong to steal? It is an easy meal that you don't have to work as hard. Is that not natural for an animal to take an easy meal?
Evolutionary Stable State.

Seriously, give it a quick google.

And if natural law is so dumb why do flocking birds arrange themselves so they have a 360 degree view of their surroundings and emit a scatter cry when they view a predator?
#37
Quote by garden of grey
....Are you a troll?

Unfortunately not. Perfect example of Poe's Law though.
Quote by Twist of fate
Aliens can invade us. Apparently you've never heard of pearl harbor


#38
Quote by freedoms_stain
It creates victims.

Are you fucking stupid or something?

Pedophilia = sexual abuse of a child.

Let me emphasise one of the words there Abuse

And in the event that we are to dense to comprehend: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=abuse&x=0&y=0


It is only abuse because it is considered wrong. If it was not a law against it and was considered something we naturally did then it would not.

What if they past a law saying it was abuse to kiss your kids. They started teaching in school it was really bad to be kissed by a parent. You know what happens is the few kids who are being kissed gets picked on, feel confused, and get disorders for the abuse done to them.
#40
Quote by freedoms_stain
Evolutionary Stable State.

Seriously, give it a quick google.

And if natural law is so dumb why do flocking birds arrange themselves so they have a 360 degree view of their surroundings and emit a scatter cry when they view a predator?


Makes perfect sense now the magic fairy of morals one day came to man once they evolved to a certain point and said now it is wrong to kill. ROFLMAO


I guess i am the only one to have evolved to a further point then you because i woke up and thought it was ok to be a pedophile now. I guess one day once everyone evolves to my point they will understand it is ok too.
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