#1
New to UG chat...I am getting bored of playing just within the pentatonic scales while soloing. What is the proper usage of exotic scales such as dorian, mixolydian, phragyn, etc. Can these be used in conventional rock solos or best kept for jazz?
#2
natural Minor's always a good start for a more melodic rock sound.
Quote by deli_creep

*PEAR*


if i get banned....it was worth it.
#3
I had the same problem a bout a year back and i bought a book with all kinds of scale patterns that run the whole neck and just learned those and moved on to learning realy theory about scale building and soloing.

That being said I suggest you go buy a book with scales in it and study that for a while.
Quote by Thepoison92
Go as a tampon
White shirt, white hat, white trousers (cheap ones) and cover the bottom half in fake blood, also have to write 'Tampax' on the shirt, so people know what you are and can then be disgusted.
#4
Quote by McG5-0
New to UG chat...I am getting bored of playing just within the pentatonic scales while soloing. What is the proper usage of exotic scales such as dorian, mixolydian, phragyn, etc. Can these be used in conventional rock solos or best kept for jazz?

*snicker* Phragyn. Phragyna!
I think it's funny, screw you all.
#5
If the scale fits in the chord progression you can use it. Pentatonic is a popular way to solo because it has that rock feel to it. If you're bored of that then move on to Diatonic scales. In my opinion, diatonic scales (especially harmonic minor and dominant phrygian) tend to be much more melodic than pentatonics.
#6
There are over 9000 scales you can use in general.

You just have to know how they fit over chords.

You know like
Maj7 you can use a Major scale or a Lydian scale
7 chords you can use almost anything al long a you make the seven dominant.
m7 Dorian, Natural Minor, Phrygian, Blues
1/2 dim, Harmonic minor, Locrian and some other I forget
dim, Diminished scale, Locrian, and a few others

Just figure out what notes fit in the chord.
And when you have a lick figure out what chords it works with.
#7
studying guitar solos of angus young jimi hendrix and slash ect
will help wrap your head around the solo techniques
#8
Quote by McG5-0
New to UG chat...I am getting bored of playing just within the pentatonic scales while soloing. What is the proper usage of exotic scales such as dorian, mixolydian, phragyn, etc. Can these be used in conventional rock solos or best kept for jazz?

Just so you know, those aren't scales, those are modes. It's different.
Look at it like this...
A minor: A B C D E F G A
C major: C D E F G A B C
G Mixolydian: G A B C D E F G

See something there? A minor is built on the 6th degree of the C Major scale. All the same notes, but it's all in how you use it, and what chords/bass notes you use it over.

And yes, they can be used in rock. Santana loves Phrygian and Dorian. Clapton uses Dorian a lot, too. Joe perry of Aerosmith uses Mixolydian and Phrygian quite a bit.
Last edited by forsaknazrael at Oct 2, 2008,
#9
To be honest you should stay away from modes until you are familiar with some theory (more precisely construction of the major scale and diatonic harmony).

As ultimo101 posted, try mixing things up with some notes of the natural minor. Also don't neglect the major pentatonic, people tend to play minor pent and forget the major (not saying you do this, but I did )
#10
Quote by NoOne0507
There are over 9000 scales you can use in general.

You just have to know how they fit over chords.

You know like
Maj7 you can use a Major scale or a Lydian scale
7 chords you can use almost anything al long a you make the seven dominant.
m7 Dorian, Natural Minor, Phrygian, Blues
1/2 dim, Harmonic minor, Locrian and some other I forget
dim, Diminished scale, Locrian, and a few others

Just figure out what notes fit in the chord.
And when you have a lick figure out what chords it works with.


Depends how you count. We did it previously--conservative counts have 2408 scales, less conservative counts have MANY more....If you'd like, I could explain what each count represents. The 2408 was every different combination of notes you can have with the same root.

Also, Half diminished wouldn't typically use harmonic minor--it has a perfect fifth and a major 7th.
#11
Quote by epiphone_drone
studying guitar solos of angus young jimi hendrix and slash ect
will help wrap your head around the solo techniques


For someone wanting to branch away from standard Minor Pentatonic ideas those guys are useless; all three of those guys basically stick to the minor pentatonic and that's about it.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#12
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
For someone wanting to branch away from standard Minor Pentatonic ideas those guys are useless; all three of those guys basically stick to the minor pentatonic and that's about it.


This

If you want a different kind of soloing listen to Yngwie Malmsteen.
#13
The modes of the major scale are not exclusive to jazz, you can switch between the ionian/aeolian to any of them at any time during a song (provided the backing chords are appropriate).
hue
#14
Quote by pwrmax
This

If you want a different kind of soloing listen to Yngwie Malmsteen.



He just plays mostly Phrygian and harmonic minors...repeat repeat repeat

I would focus on Joe Satriani who incorporates lydian and G ionian (usually) and occasional aeolian

He uses the pitch axis theory


Mode Chord(s)
Ionian mode Maj6, Maj7
Dorian mode Min6, Min7
Phrygian mode Min7, Min7b9
Phrygian Dominant mode 7, 7b9
Lydian mode Maj7, Maj7#11
Mixolydian mode Dom7, Dom9, Dom11
Aeolian mode Min7, Min9, Min11
Locrian mode Dim7, Dim7b9


Hope that helps
#15
Just had a thought: Look at some Paul Gilbert licks; most of his licks are pentatonic and natural minor based but for the most part don't sound so cliched so look at the way he builds his licks and try to apply the logic to whatever you can think of. He's a very good example of how some interesting phrasing can make just about any set of notes sound different.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#16
Quote by Jimi-is-god
He just plays mostly Phrygian and harmonic minors...repeat repeat repeat


And a LOT of arpeggios. Now that I think about it, you're right, his solos all sound similar.
#17
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Just had a thought: Look at some Paul Gilbert licks; most of his licks are pentatonic and natural minor based but for the most part don't sound so cliched so look at the way he builds his licks and try to apply the logic to whatever you can think of. He's a very good example of how some interesting phrasing can make just about any set of notes sound different.



That's a good idea, actually.

What I'm doing with a current pupil is teaching him to connect the major scale with the minor pentatonic, and also adding in the "PG shred blues" scale shape with extra notes.

So, if you have the minor pentatonic, you can play a major scale shape 3 frets up from that and vastly increase your vocabulary. That said, moved to MT.
#21
The modes of the major scale are not exclusive to jazz, you can switch between the ionian/aeolian to any of them at any time during a song (provided the backing chords are appropriate).


Not really, no. Each of those are used over progressions specifically designed for them.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#22
Go ahead and learn the full major and minor scale, thats the next step after penatonic.

I encourage you to work for more length on penatonic scales.

I spent a long time on penatonic scales, got to where I could sound original for long periods of time using the only scale i knew. I got to where I was making alot of music with the penatonic scale before i moved onto the major.
#23
Quote by Peaceful Rocker
Go ahead and learn the full major and minor scale, thats the next step after penatonic.

I encourage you to work for more length on penatonic scales.

I spent a long time on penatonic scales, got to where I could sound original for long periods of time using the only scale i knew. I got to where I was making alot of music with the penatonic scale before i moved onto the major.


yeah this is well said, a lot of people play the pentatonic scales to a point where they sound just like everyone else and then move on. I took a tip from Eric Johnson, he plays pentatonic for most of his runs but he uses a few other notes added in that he likes the sound of, and most of the time he doesn't end his run on the obvious root, sometimes he'll end on the octave of a root or maybe even a 3rd or 5th (think i heard this from his dvd). It makes it sound like hes not using the pentatonic scales, pretty cool imo.