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#1
I just got done being educated on the healthcare in the united states and it's an absolute mess for a variety of reasons. The information that I have learned about this nations' healthcare is just ******* disguisting. I say yes, or some genius needs to totally 100% reform the one we have now and come up with a better plan.
#4
why not
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#5
Quote by Vagabond21
I'd rather have it this way



Then you're a ******* moron. Either that, or you're very uninformed.
#6
Quote by Southside_RS
Then you're a ******* moron. Either that, or you're very uninformed.

It's nice to see that you just made this thread to have other people blow smoke up your ass and you flame anyone with a differing opinion.
#7
Quote by RU Experienced?
It's nice to see that you just made this thread to have other people blow smoke up your ass and you flame anyone with a differing opinion.


No. He's a moron if he thinks our healthcare is fine. Doctors across the nation acknowledge that it's a mess. I'm open for educated opinions. Not dumbasses who thinks they can discuss important issues.
#9
First of all: What a stupid title. I think you mean to say should the Unites States have free healthcare.

My thoughts: No, if you want healthcare, go out and buy it. This is how Capitalism works: If you have the means of getting something, get it. If you don't, then work hard, save, then get it. If it's too much for you to do and you want to complain about it, go to a different country with a different method of approaching life.

/rant
#10
Universal healthcare = two-three hour waits in clinics, three-four hours in the ER if you have a minor issue.

I'm all for it still. My mom on the other hand likes the fact that they opened a Private Clinic here in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.

I think the U.S. system is a little stupid as circumcision is covered by medicare in most states whereas there are actual important surgeries that aren't.


To the above user; when I'm retired if I need heart surgery how the hell am I going to pay for it?
And I have eczema and asthma. The topical creams for eczema can hit $200 for a tube (my mom pays some small amount like 20 dollars) and my inhaler costs $100 for a months supply at the rate I use it. I'm glad I live in Canada.
Last edited by CaptainRon at Oct 4, 2008,
#11
What I meant was I don't want that socialist bullshit in this country.

I'm sure it's not perfect. Probably far from it.

Our healthcare system will dip to new lows if we follow obama policies.

Other than that, I have no problem with Obama
#12
Quote by Southside_RS
No. He's a moron if he thinks our healthcare is fine. Doctors across the nation acknowledge that it's a mess. I'm open for educated opinions. Not dumbasses who thinks they can discuss important issues.

Wow, you just proved the point of the guy you quoted.
#13
Yes. Nothing benefits lower, lower-middle, middle, and middle-high classes.

If someone needs a surgery in order to live, but can't afford it, is bullshit.
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#15
Quote by Muzikh
First of all: What a stupid title. I think you mean to say should the Unites States have free healthcare.

My thoughts: No, if you want healthcare, go out and buy it. This is how Capitalism works: If you have the means of getting something, get it. If you don't, then work hard, save, then get it. If it's too much for you to do and you want to complain about it, go to a different country with a different method of approaching life.

/rant


No. The correct name is 'universal healthcare'. And don't you know anything? Let's say somebody can pay for the 7,000 dollar healthcare insuranec. Still today people get turned down by bizaare reasons, simply to save money. Infact in that industry you actually get a bonus by the most people you turn down. They also have people who scan your file like a murder case, looking for the smallest mistake just to turn you down. Also, certain health insurance companies make you go to certain hospitals - people die because of this. I mean I could go on and on, on how much of a mess it is. Oh and btw, let's go with your logic..Why not make all schools private, along with the fire and the police dpt? Honestly, get out of here.
#16
Private clinics mean competing doctors and in the medicinal field that can only lead to further advances. What motivation is there if the government is picking up the tab. That only makes one more thing that the government will have to fund.

And can I ask what you mean by being "educated" because in a lot of learning facilities being "educated" means getting one side of the story being presented as cold hard fact without any other real side.
"They say rock n' roll is dead well not while I'm alive it ain't" - Liam Gallagher

"It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors." - Oscar Wilde

#17
The best health insurance I ever had was working a job for 10 bucks an hour. I've worked full time since I was out of high school, even through college, and Ive never been without heath insurance.

The people wanting government provided health insurance dont realize that it would completely undermine the quality of health care. If the government controlled it, theyd control what doctor you went to, and once that happens, your automatically going to the cheapest doctor. The US has good doctors because the doctors here get paid to be good. Its capitalism at its finest, the best costs more, and the cheap shit blows. I dont want to be told what doctor to go to, cause ive been to shitty doctors before and its the worst. Plus the gov would be able to say what doctor works where, what the doctor gets paid etc etc. It would basically become like our public school system, complete shit.

Please dont give the weak ass argument of socialistic health care working in European countries. We arent Europe. One of our states has a good chance of being bigger than a whole European country. blah.
#18
Quote by CaptainRon
I think the U.S. system is a little stupid as circumcision is covered by medicare in most states whereas there are actual important surgeries that aren't.

Well, circumcision takes, like, 2 seconds if you've got a really good pediatrician doing it.
#19
Quote by Southside_RS
No. The correct name is 'universal healthcare'. And don't you know anything? Let's say somebody can pay for the 7,000 dollar healthcare insuranec. Still today people get turned down by bizaare reasons, simply to save money. Infact in that industry you actually get a bonus by the most people you turn down. They also have people who scan your file like a murder case, looking for the smallest mistake just to turn you down. Also, certain health insurance companies make you go to certain hospitals - people die because of this. I mean I could go on and on, on how much of a mess it is. Oh and btw, let's go with your logic..Why not make all schools private, along with the fire and the police dpt? Honestly, get out of here.


Well you could argue the performance of private school students is higher than that done in the public school system, and that private security companies are making a hefty sum of money that could lead to better forensic science techniques and the equipment for police depts that I can gurantee the governments just can't pay for.
"They say rock n' roll is dead well not while I'm alive it ain't" - Liam Gallagher

"It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors." - Oscar Wilde

#20
Its a matter of how big and powerful we let the government get. If we let the gov start controlling our health care, it makes us much too dependent on them for survival. I trust any governent (especially my own) about as far as i can throw them.

Some folks use this as their primary reason for not wanting government intervention.
#22
Quote by STPilots17
Private clinics mean competing doctors and in the medicinal field that can only lead to further advances. What motivation is there if the government is picking up the tab. That only makes one more thing that the government will have to fund.

And can I ask what you mean by being "educated" because in a lot of learning facilities being "educated" means getting one side of the story being presented as cold hard fact without any other real side.


You're a moron. In france, doctors get paid bonuses if more people become healthy. And again, I could use your some logic to schooling and what not, but notice how everything else is public? We wouldn't juse let the health care industry run wild. Places like England and France are fine, we'd learn from them and correct on their mistakes.

I don't mean to get political here...But btw John McCain is offering more of the same bull**** that has been occuring.
#23
oh and btw. With the uni healthcare, you'll also get cheap as hell drugs too. Everything is just unarguably better with universal healthcare. This is one of the many reasons why Obama is leading in the polls.
#24
Quote by tonedeafidiot
Well, circumcision takes, like, 2 seconds if you've got a really good pediatrician doing it.


And costs 200 dollars.

2 million boys born in the U.S. every year. 60% are circumcised.

1200000*200 dollars is a lot of money that could have been spent on something important.

Canadian doctors aren't all that bad. We do have a shortage though because they all move to the states for more money.

I like being able to walk in to a clinic, write my name on the list, come back two hours later or whatever the wait time is, then go in, get looked at, walk out without paying.
Last edited by CaptainRon at Oct 4, 2008,
#25
Quote by Southside_RS
I just got done being educated on the healthcare in the united states and it's an absolute mess for a variety of reasons. The information that I have learned about this nations' healthcare is just ******* disguisting. I say yes, or some genius needs to totally 100% reform the one we have now and come up with a better plan.

If Universal Health Care/Socialized Medicine is initiated, you will no longer receive excellent treatment. In fact, in most cases you will receive, if any, sub-standard treatment given by those who work a second job at the 7/11 to repay their student loans, and, if it were not 1 AM, I would detail them for you.

It really boils down to a single issue: health care cannot be put in a box and numbered like any other type of business, because due to the extraordinary complexity of the human body, patients must be treated on a case-by-case basis.

If you really want to know what it would be like, ask someone who works as a doctor for the Veteran's Affairs hospitals.
#26
Quote by Southside_RS
BLAH BLAH BLAH

THERE YOU GO AGAIN! ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED? You can't prove a point by doing basically nothing but calling people names like an eight year old.
#27
Also let's talk about the heroes who helped out at 9/11:

The government initially refused to pay for the health care of 9/11 volunteers, because they were not on the government payroll. It remains difficult for the volunteers to access the $50 million fund that has been appropriated for their care.
#28
Quote by Southside_RS
You're a moron. In france, doctors get paid bonuses if more people become healthy. And again, I could use your some logic to schooling and what not, but notice how everything else is public? We wouldn't juse let the health care industry run wild. Places like England and France are fine, we'd learn from them and correct on their mistakes.

I don't mean to get political here...But btw John McCain is offering more of the same bull**** that has been occuring.



Lets not mention that the US is much much larger than both France and England put together, and that France's own government has admitted that their health care system is bankrupting them. So if it wont work for an itty bitty country, what makes you think it would work for our hefty ass?

In addition, why do you think the government owes you something? why dont you go out and TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF? Stop looking for someone else to do it and be a man.
#29
Quote by Southside_RS
oh and btw. With the uni healthcare, you'll also get cheap as hell drugs too. Everything is just unarguably better with universal healthcare. This is one of the many reasons why Obama is leading in the polls.


Remove the tinfoil hat, then remove your arse, which you are also using as a hat...

You're promoting a more socialized government which is something that a very very large portion of Americans don't want. If you can't see the flaws in letting our government (who can hardly keep this country running) control healthcare, then I'm even further inclined to label you as "retarded".
#30
Quote by sixfinger'd
The best health insurance I ever had was working a job for 10 bucks an hour. I've worked full time since I was out of high school, even through college, and Ive never been without heath insurance.

The people wanting government provided health insurance dont realize that it would completely undermine the quality of health care. If the government controlled it, theyd control what doctor you went to, and once that happens, your automatically going to the cheapest doctor. The US has good doctors because the doctors here get paid to be good. Its capitalism at its finest, the best costs more, and the cheap shit blows. I dont want to be told what doctor to go to, cause ive been to shitty doctors before and its the worst. Plus the gov would be able to say what doctor works where, what the doctor gets paid etc etc. It would basically become like our public school system, complete shit.

Please dont give the weak ass argument of socialistic health care working in European countries. We arent Europe. One of our states has a good chance of being bigger than a whole European country. blah.



LOL wrong. Cuba alone is one of the most generous countries in providing doctors to the third world.
#31
Quote by Southside_RS
No. The correct name is 'universal healthcare'. And don't you know anything? Let's say somebody can pay for the 7,000 dollar healthcare insuranec. Still today people get turned down by bizaare reasons, simply to save money. Infact in that industry you actually get a bonus by the most people you turn down. They also have people who scan your file like a murder case, looking for the smallest mistake just to turn you down. Also, certain health insurance companies make you go to certain hospitals - people die because of this. I mean I could go on and on, on how much of a mess it is. Oh and btw, let's go with your logic..Why not make all schools private, along with the fire and the police dpt? Honestly, get out of here.

I have no problem with that actually.
I work in the "business" as you call it.
I work in a pharmacy, I work with people's health insurances, and rest assured, the world is not as bad as you're making it out to be. You're just a victim to sensationalism and also cannot accept the fact that everybody will die at one point in time or another. You're just a bleeding heart, nothing more nothing less.

Also, be open to other ideas and opinions, from the sounds of it, you're rushing in here demanding we conform to what you believe is right, and of course there can't be any other way because you feel so strongly about it.. how on earth did everybody else miss out on this, etc..

Listen kid. Grow up. Get used to a tough life, because not everybody can be pleased at once. We call that a utopia, and as you read in your fantasy fiction novels.. those don't exist in reality. Deal with it. Work with the system or wage war. If the cause you are raving about is not worth dying for, then it's not worth mentioning at all.

/rant 2
#32
Quote by Southside_RS
You're a moron. In france, doctors get paid bonuses if more people become healthy. And again, I could use your some logic to schooling and what not, but notice how everything else is public? We wouldn't juse let the health care industry run wild. Places like England and France are fine, we'd learn from them and correct on their mistakes.

I don't mean to get political here...But btw John McCain is offering more of the same bull**** that has been occuring.


Lol I'm a moron, nice intellectual argument on that one. Have you ever heard of court appointed defense counsel. It's basically garbage (but necessary for our justice system), and could only show a glimpse of what could happen in a government ran health sector, some fresh out of med school doctor too fatheaded to take the time to do what is necessary and needed but basically becoming a revolving door of patients where one goes in and another comes out. Doctors in the private sector have a lot to fear if they mess up when it comes to law suits. Under the governments hands it becomes, oh well you didn't pay for it anyway so don't complain.
"They say rock n' roll is dead well not while I'm alive it ain't" - Liam Gallagher

"It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors." - Oscar Wilde

#33
Hey let's be gentle folks, probably some college professor just got him a little excited.
#34
yes and no. universal health care just would not work in the us. my parents pay their dues for healthcare so we get what we deserve. however, if someone is in dire need of a surgery and can't get it cause they can't afford it that's bullshit. that person needs to be a legal us citizen. not someone who came into this country illegally.
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#35
Quote by Southside_RS
LOL wrong. Cuba alone is one of the most generous countries in providing doctors to the third world.

They're also notorious for lying about their statistics in order to make themselves look good.
#36
HERE is something the countries that have universal health care don't tell you. Nor do their residents, because it is something that people bite the bullet with so to speak.

In Canada, a women smoker of age 55 with stage 4 lung cancer will not be treated. She will be turned away from all public health institutions. She will be forced to go to the states to get whatever treatment she needs.

And by no treatment I mean NO treatment pertaining to her lung cancer. None, no chemo, no radiation treatment, no pills. Nothing.

Male non-smoker in need of a pacemaker at age of 50, will be put on a waiting list approximately 6-12 months. Those in need of pacemakers generally need them immediately.

My ideal situation for the USA would be to have public healthcare for simple things like a broken bone, cracked skull (its actually quite common) stitches, non-cosmetic dental work, and other non crazy advanced medical problems.

And when and if you need heart surgery, or a lung transplant, well then you need to be on health care, and be able to pay for it. That or the gov should help you pay for it somehow.

Remember. The government is our employees, we have the absolute right to tell them what we want them to do for us.

Remember that!
#37
Quote by imicius
If Universal Health Care/Socialized Medicine is initiated, you will no longer receive excellent treatment. In fact, in most cases you will receive, if any, sub-standard treatment given by those who work a second job at the 7/11 to repay their student loans, and, if it were not 1 AM, I would detail them for you.

It really boils down to a single issue: health care cannot be put in a box and numbered like any other type of business, because due to the extraordinary complexity of the human body, patients must be treated on a case-by-case basis.

If you really want to know what it would be like, ask someone who works as a doctor for the Veteran's Affairs hospitals.



....Did you just say that our healthcare is fine? Are disagreeing with the doctors across the nation? Haven't you looked at any of the points I brought up earlier in this thread, or researched on how much of a pile of **** it is? Hell, people who are against Universal Healthcare acknowledge it's a mess.

Oh and btw, where are your facts? Show me your facts that doctors in Canda, France, England, etc. etc. etc. perform horribly.

And again you stupid dumbass, I can say that firefighters, police dpt, teachers, etc. perform horribly too, right? Just stop talking.
#38
Universal healthcare works fine in other countries. Why not the US?
Also, some of you stupid fucks overlook the fact that you can still buy your private health insurance with the universal healthcare system in place. What universal healthcare does is ensure that everyone can get treatment, where-as without it you pay out your ass for everything. Which many, many people cannot. That brings in the poverty argument, which all you spoilt rich kids think that anybody can go get a job and earn $50k a year.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#39
Quote by Sloofus
Hey let's be gentle folks, probably some college professor just got him a little excited.

most definitely..
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