#1
i was looking at a stranscribed solo of charlie parkers on the song "scrapple from the apple" and i noticed that he moves way out side the changes. On an A minor 7 chord he plays the notes

Eb - D - Db - F - Ab - C

i played that and it sounds way funky, but apon listening on the record it all sounds good. what the **** has he done? what scale approach? some kind of extension that i have forgotten? this lick is confusing the crap out of me.
#2
Eb - D - Db - F - Ab - C

Well, Im assuming if your listening to Jazz, you know basic music theory stuff.

So as far as chord tones, we have.

A-7: b5 4 b4/3 b6 7/b8 b3

The first three notes Im assuming can be seen as a chromatic run.

The first is obviously assuming a Dorian#4, or Half-Diminished Quality over the chord.

The 4th is diatonic, the b4 could be Super-Locrian, or just a nat 3rd passing tone, or (kinda) changing the chord quality into a 7#9 chord.

F is Diatonic, im assuming the Ab is a passing tone, may not be hung onto, if it is, Implying Min/Maj7

Of course the C is diatonic.

I really havent helped at all, I would like to know too.
Last edited by Galvanise69 at Oct 9, 2008,
#3
haha you haven't helped too much so far. i dont actually knwo what half those scales are, i am so far only a prep student for uni but it does acutally make sense what you are saying...sort of

but dont only those crazy extensions work over dominant chords real well? correct me if i am wrong
#4
Dominant chords, are a completley alterable structure, all you really need to form a Dominant chord is the Tri-Tone between 3 - b7

The rest of the tones can be altered and or omitted.

So, just about any tension, apart from Nat 7th (possibly the most "out" note to play on a Dominant chord, and I dont mean out in a good way)

A common choice over a Altered Dominant, is super locrian, which contains every altered note possible.

Super Locrian: 1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7

I dont know if he's really sticking to a scale, or just playing around chord tones.

Thats why you can have altered dominants such as 7#9b5 and have them sound really great.

The most common application of Dominant 7 chords, is to resolve to the I the tri-tone is already present in the Dominant chord, the V - I is like Tension - Release
#5
Mostly, it just goes to show you can't really take the chord and/or notes out of
context and also with how it's phrased.

All I can really tell from that is that it ends on C which would be about the strongest
IN note you can play on an A-7. Generally it's important, if you go "out", to wind
things up on an "in" so that it sounds like you know what you're doing. Or,
the in-out-in principle.
#6
what part of the song is this (time) ... I can't find it in my recording, and there isn't much of an Am7 presence in the song. (Real book has it once a chorus, definitely not the spot, and I don't hear the pianist subbing it into the B section)

also the note choice suggests Bbm7, so it could just be a sidestep (playing an "in" lick a half step aside for easy, strong, intentional sounding dissonance).
#7
Quote by maximus69er
i was looking at a stranscribed solo of charlie parkers on the song "scrapple from the apple" and i noticed that he moves way out side the changes. On an A minor 7 chord he plays the notes

Eb - D - Db - F - Ab - C

i played that and it sounds way funky, but apon listening on the record it all sounds good. what the **** has he done? what scale approach? some kind of extension that i have forgotten? this lick is confusing the crap out of me.
You do realise that you can use just about any note on an unstressed beat? Only on stressed beats would you have to use consonant notes

Anyway, he just seems to be doing some chromatics, very parker-eque. The only weird note is Ab, but that might be explained as he was soloing over that a minor 7 as if it was a Cmaj (mostly the same notes) and he tried to go for a sort of spicy sort of dissonance with that Ab (Ab makes a minor sixth with C, something you see in phrygian modes). Its a little weird because the Ab clashes weirdly with the A of the chord.

It was parker, dude. He spent alot of his time of his face and jacked on heroin.
#8
Definatley with Nicks reply, I recon a full analysis of the tones, (however as edg said, not knowing the phasing)

Eb - D - Db: Just a chromatic like down to a rootless -7 a half-step away from the original chord, the playing half-step away (or a tri-tone) away is a good way to get outside.

That The Db - F - Ab is just the Bb-7 chord over the A-7 resolving that to the C, b3, being a consonant tone over the A-7.

Edg: Did you mean the strongest, or most stable tone over the A-7, being the C.

I also found this peice of information interesting, cheers demon.

"You do realise that you can use just about any note on an unstressed beat? Only on stressed beats would you have to use consonant notes"
Last edited by Galvanise69 at Oct 11, 2008,
#9
Quote by Galvanise69

"You do realise that you can use just about any note on an unstressed beat? Only on stressed beats would you have to use consonant notes"
I became really disillusioned with improvising when I realised this. You know whats its like finding the answer to something and its something really unimpressive? Yeah. I reckon thats what its going to be like when someone discovers the meaning of life.
#10
^ "eat well, exercise a bit, read a good book every now and again."

One of my pupils had this A-HA! moment yesterday when he realised how to create strong structures in solos. Then he promptly disliked strong structures because they were too easy.

Mostly, it just goes to show you can't really take the chord and/or notes out of
context and also with how it's phrased.

All I can really tell from that is that it ends on C which would be about the strongest
IN note you can play on an A-7. Generally it's important, if you go "out", to wind
things up on an "in" so that it sounds like you know what you're doing. Or,
the in-out-in principle.

EDG has already said everything I think on this subject.