#1
Brand new here. After playing a Strat and a 12 string Rickenbacker for 15 years I just brought home a new Epiphone Casino and I am discovering that I can get a jazzy sound out of my guitar.

Now I know the Casino is not exactly a jazz guitar, but compared to a 12 string Ric it is a Charlie Christian. I just want to know what jazz chords sound so delicious that I might want to try on my new Casino. I never played a jazz chord in my life (they would have sounded like hell on my guitars anyway), but I want to see what this new Casino can give me. Any suggestions for a jazz chord that would make my Casino, me, and others around me melt?
#2
you've been playing for 15 years and you dont know a SINGLE chord that sounds jazzy?
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#3
Quote by manmanster
you've been playing for 15 years and you dont know a SINGLE chord that sounds jazzy?

Hey, dude, there are things that "sound jazzy" (Winton Marsalis, Sting's ridiculous projects) and things that ARE jazz (Charlie Christian). There is a difference. Got that? I ain't looking for something that "sounds" jazzy.
#4
Add nines always get me.

edit : Since when is there a difference between what something sounds like and what it is (in this context)?
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#6
Quote by CasinoEpiphone
Hey, dude, there are things that "sound jazzy" (Winton Marsalis, Sting's ridiculous projects) and things that ARE jazz (Charlie Christian). There is a difference. Got that? I ain't looking for something that "sounds" jazzy.



Its interesting that someone who has never played a jazz chord in their life is instructing someone else as to what is and isn't jazz.
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Last edited by manmanster at Oct 9, 2008,
#7
Quote by CasinoEpiphone
Hey, dude, there are things that "sound jazzy" (Winton Marsalis, Sting's ridiculous projects) and things that ARE jazz (Charlie Christian). There is a difference. Got that? I ain't looking for something that "sounds" jazzy.


Winton Marsalis is possibly one of the most influential jazz artists of our time. Don't even think about brushing him off as "jazzy sounding".

As for chords. Maj9th chords, 13ths, min7 b5's all have a great fat jazz sound to them.
#8
Quote by manmanster
Its interesting that someone who has never played a jazz chord in their life is instructing someone else as to what is and isn't jazz.

Not instructing you at all as to what is and isn't jazz. I'm just trying to help you out in understanding the difference between jazz and what you call "sounds jazzy." Satchmo is jazz, Herbie Hancock "sounds jazzy." Clear now?
#9
There is no difference between what sounds jazz and what is jazz, since music is an art of sounds. What sounds like jazz is defined by what is jazz, they are one in the same.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#10
Quote by CasinoEpiphone
Not instructing you at all as to what is and isn't jazz. I'm just trying to help you out in understanding the difference between jazz and what you call "sounds jazzy." Satchmo is jazz, Herbie Hancock "sounds jazzy." Clear now?

not really, Herbie is most definitely jazz. On topic though, try a major 7th voicing such as this

e-2
b-3
g-4
d-5
a-
e-
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#11
Quote by The_Sophist
There is no difference between what sounds jazz and what is jazz, since music is an art of sounds. What sounds like jazz is defined by what is jazz, they are one in the same.

I can not disagree with you more. What "sounds jazzy" is not the same as what IS jazzy. What "sounds" like something IS NOT that something. The friggin' Monkees sounded like The Beatles...uhh, they weren't The Beatles. Hall and Oates "sounds" like soul music....uhhh, they ain't soul music. Poison "sounds" like metal...uhh, they ain't metal.

Think about it, if I play a jazz chord that "sounds jazzy," am I suddenly a jazz musician? What sounds like something doesn't necessarily make it that something.
#12
Quote by aetherspear
....try a major 7th voicing such as this

e-2
b-3
g-4
d-5
a-
e-

Thanks, man. I tried it out...and ended up playing "Beginnings" by Chicago!
#13
The fundamental jazz chord is the 7th chord in all its forms: major, minor, dominant, half-diminished(m7b5), to some extent diminished, and alterations of the above.
#14
Not to start much disagreement, but herbie played in miles' quintet and certainly paid his jazz dues, although I agree that a lot of his material strays a bit (some quite a bit). Similar with wynton: his attitudes and views irritate me but one thing you can't say about him is that he hasn't spent the time learning heavily from jazz tradition. I like branford better anyway.


anyway what you're really looking for here is voicings, yes? here are some of my favourites.

-|-3-|-0-|-5-7-5-|-6-|-8
-|-3-|-0-|-6-8-5-|-6-|-8
-|-5-|-5-|-5-7-4-|-5-|-7
-|-7-|-5-|-5-7-3-|-5-|-6
-|-x-|-0-|-5-7-3-|-4-
-|-6-|---|--------|-----

Bb∆; Am9 (drop the 7th down a semitone for Am6 and alternate; or move your fingers up a fret for A∆; Dm (I love this sequence / implies dorian which is tonic minor in most jazz anyway); Gm7b5 (in inversion); Bb13 (needs a bassist)

all but one (guess which?) are easily slide-able for your pleasure. enjoy etc.
#15
Quote by CasinoEpiphone
I can not disagree with you more. What "sounds jazzy" is not the same as what IS jazzy. What "sounds" like something IS NOT that something. The friggin' Monkees sounded like The Beatles...uhh, they weren't The Beatles. Hall and Oates "sounds" like soul music....uhhh, they ain't soul music. Poison "sounds" like metal...uhh, they ain't metal.


Ok, that was completely retarded.

If it "sounds jazzy" to use your words...yeah, it's jazz. It's not metal, it's not pop, it's not country, it's not hiphop, therefore it's jazz. (How am I going at using your style of arguing, is it succeeding?)

Ok, I'll be logical.
For something to "sound jazzy," it has to make use of characteristics and stylings which are unique to jazz. I'm sure you know what unique means. If it's using these unique characteristics, it MUST be jazz.

EDIT: Also, who chooses what "is jazz" and merely "sounds jazzy?"
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Last edited by yM.Samurai at Oct 10, 2008,
#16
If it "sounds jazzy" to use your words...yeah, it's jazz. It's not metal, it's not pop, it's not country, it's not hiphop, therefore it's jazz.


True of most genres, but not of jazz. There are many (myself included) who would argue that the defining feature of jazz is improvisation, and that something isn't jazz merely because it sounds "jazzy".
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#17
Quote by Archeo Avis
True of most genres, but not of jazz. There are many (myself included) who would argue that the defining feature of jazz is improvisation, and that something isn't jazz merely because it sounds "jazzy".

Truth.

On topic.

Try this

a ii-V-I in the key of Bb. So a Cm7-F7-Bb7.

Or play a I-IV-V in straight fours. So something like a G7-C9-D9.

Those sound like Jazz to me.
#18
Quote by Archeo Avis
True of most genres, but not of jazz. There are many (myself included) who would argue that the defining feature of jazz is improvisation, and that something isn't jazz merely because it sounds "jazzy".


I was parodying him there.

As for the improvisation: not all jazz is improvised. Although that's subjective of your definition of jazz. Does what you're saying mean that somebody who improvises in half their songs is only a jazz musician all the time? I'd call Eric Johnson a jazz guitarist, and while he does improvise, it's not an important part of his playing.
Quote by metal4all
Just, no. Locrian should be treated like that gay cousin. Just avoid him cuz he's weird, unstable, and is attracted to the wrong thing.


Quote by steven seagull
Big deal, I bought a hamster once and they put that in a box...doesn't make it a scale.
#19
The monkees sound like the beatles but their not lol.....thats not even relevant.The beatles isnt a style of music
Andy
#20
Quote by CasinoEpiphone
Hey, dude, there are things that "sound jazzy" (Winton Marsalis, Sting's ridiculous projects) and things that ARE jazz (Charlie Christian). There is a difference. Got that? I ain't looking for something that "sounds" jazzy.
Hey, dude, I'm sure you obviously know this but those things which sound "jazzy" are jazzy because of the context. It's the progression (an ii-V-I progression is a start, but its not completely "jazzy), the rhthym, the wild (seemingly atonal, but not) melodys, the cool tone, the drum beat and so many other aspects. I've seen jazz songs (which sound jazzy) that only use dominant chords. What chord you're using doesnt matter.
But seeing as you know whats jazz and what "sounds" like jazz, I'm sure you knew that.

Also, jazz doesnt exist
#21
Satchmo is jazz, Herbie Hancock "sounds jazzy." Clear now?



I'm not going to argue with you about that because the thread would stray off topic but stop using examples like that to define the sound of such a broad genre like jazz.


Also:


Dmin9: x5355x
G7#5: 3x344x
Cmaj7: x3545x


That's a II V I in C. Also, I don't agree with this "jazz chord" name. Chords are universal. The chords you play in jazz are not exclusive to jazz and you'll find some modern classical(even some older stuff) makes use of these chords. Just FYI.
#22
Much thanks for all the good suggestions on some precise chords to try. I will give those a go.

As far as "sounds jazzy" vs. jazz.....well if one feels simply sounding like something makes you that something, then you believe Madonna when she puts on her British accent is actually British. Look, I can "sound jazzy" -- give me a jazz chord, a Charlie Christian pickup, a Gibson ES 150 and let me strum away. But am I playing jazz? I'll tell you, "NO!"
#23
Again, that's an invalid argument. You ARE playing jazz. Sure, you're not necessarily a jazz musician, but you are playing jazz.
Quote by metal4all
Just, no. Locrian should be treated like that gay cousin. Just avoid him cuz he's weird, unstable, and is attracted to the wrong thing.


Quote by steven seagull
Big deal, I bought a hamster once and they put that in a box...doesn't make it a scale.
#24
The reason such complex chords are known as jazz chords is because they are often found in jazz, Confusius. They are found in other styles but they are found commonly in jazz, so why not call them jazz chords?
#25
^Agreed. It's like calling a tritone a "blue note" in the hexatonic blues scale.
Quote by metal4all
Just, no. Locrian should be treated like that gay cousin. Just avoid him cuz he's weird, unstable, and is attracted to the wrong thing.


Quote by steven seagull
Big deal, I bought a hamster once and they put that in a box...doesn't make it a scale.
#26
Because they're not exclusive to jazz. I'm not saying they don't appear frequently in jazz and I'm not going to argue with the nomenclature that's around, that's pointless, I was just commenting on it.
#27
Quote by yM.Samurai
Again, that's an invalid argument. You ARE playing jazz. Sure, you're not necessarily a jazz musician, but you are playing jazz.

Come on, you can't be serious. A thirteen year old kid picks up his Squire guitar that he got from Sears and strums a Ddim9 chord and you believe he is playing jazz???
Dude, jazz and punk and country and rock and reggae and all sorts of musical styles have more to do with HOW you play something - how you feel something - than just strumming a certain chord.
#28
Yeah, he is playing jazz. He's not necessarily good at it, but he is playing jazz. There's a difference between playing something and being good at it, or between playing jazz and being a jazz musician. Living in the outback or w/e is not a requirement for playing country. It's the same with jazz.
Quote by metal4all
Just, no. Locrian should be treated like that gay cousin. Just avoid him cuz he's weird, unstable, and is attracted to the wrong thing.


Quote by steven seagull
Big deal, I bought a hamster once and they put that in a box...doesn't make it a scale.
#29
Quote by yM.Samurai
Yeah, he is playing jazz. He's not necessarily good at it, but he is playing jazz. There's a difference between playing something and being good at it, or between playing jazz and being a jazz musician. Living in the outback or w/e is not a requirement for playing country. It's the same with jazz.


Again, many people would argue that playing a pre-memorized composition verbatim is not jazz.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#30
Did you read my other post, Archeo? I think that you could classify guitarists like Eric Johnson as jazz...to a point.
Quote by metal4all
Just, no. Locrian should be treated like that gay cousin. Just avoid him cuz he's weird, unstable, and is attracted to the wrong thing.


Quote by steven seagull
Big deal, I bought a hamster once and they put that in a box...doesn't make it a scale.
#31
Quote by yM.Samurai
Did you read my other post, Archeo? I think that you could classify guitarists like Eric Johnson as jazz...to a point.


I did, and it doesn't change the fact that the cornerstone of jazz music is improvisation. Eric Johnson is very obviously influenced by the genre, but most of his composition are far closer to country or classic rock than jazz, though he does improvise quite a bit live.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#32
efforts to define jazz are futile; no one can agree and its pointless anyway (because good music is good music regardless of which labels you apply)

metheny says that jazz is not a noun but a verb (historical note: the word jazz was at one point regional jargon for "improvise") and I partially agree: but I know jazz when I hear it, and that's as far as I'm willing to define.

There is certainly some arranged material that is definitely jazz but without improvisation; similarly there is music that doesn't swing, doesn't need to, and is still jazz.

I don't believe in exclusivity in music, in any genre. The kid is playing music, he's playing jazz if he wants to, he's playing jazz music, why argue? Music itself is not sacred, and jazz is brothel music.