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#1
I might have to write a paper about this in Sociology class at some point this semester so I'd like to see what UG has to say.

I refuse to see Alchoholism as a disease, CANCER is a real disease. Alchoholism is a disease according to the sissies who run this country who are slowly and surely taking away our ability to think for ourselves.

By calling it a disease they imply this notion unto alchoholics that they are impotent and incapable of fighting their urges and overcoming their problem. The more you grind this into their minds; the more and more their minds start to BELIEVE it and before you know it, these people have completely lost the will and strenght to fight it and have resigned themselves to religious doctrine or prescribed drugs. Perpetually drifting in an unstable state of self-pity and weakness.

If we, on the other hand, strongly enforce the philosophy that the power, the responsibility and the choice is in the hands of the drinker; Similarly to the mantra of the little engine that thought he could; should the drinker ''Think he can'' ( provided he really wants to) stop then his subconcious mind will begin to feed on this positive reinforcement and bestow the discipline to moderate their drinking.

By and large, I'm saying that people who go around labelling things like this as epidemics are taking away the strenght of the individual to get over it him or herself.

Retort/Agree/Discuss.
#2
Alcohol is a disease according to the American Medical Association. Read up on the Disease Theory of Alcoholism. It's not by the "sissies who run this country." It is current scientific AND medical views that it is a disease. You should really read up why it is considered a disease before you condemn it.
#3
A lot of diseases have their own treatments and there are ways to overcome them as well.

Alcoholism is a serious issue. You seem to be taking it far too lightly.
#4
Well, alcoholism is a chronic disease consisting of genetic, psychosocial, and environmental elements. But I do agree with:

Quote by Rising
The more you grind this into their minds; the more and more their minds start to BELIEVE it and before you know it, these people have completely lost the will and strenght to fight it and have resigned themselves to religious doctrine or prescribed drugs. Perpetually drifting in an unstable state of self-pity and weakness.


Some people refuse to fight it because they think "oh, it's out of my control, it's an incurable disease" but changin the name of it won't help.
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#5
My dad is an alcoholic.

Its a physical addiction not a disease in the traditional sense. Addiction is a psychological dependency and hence a disease of the mind.

I hate my dad not because he is an alcoholic, but because of the abuse my family and I have suffered at his hands. I havent in my 22 years seen that man sober. Maybe a few times but he was hungover and moody, and he would start the boozing again.

Living with an alcoholic is one of many reasons why I am so messed up as well. The problem with alcoholics is that they are so caught up in themselves that they dont see the damage that they are causing. I have no sympathy for my dad. If he were to die tomorrow I would not shed a tear.

I would be happy because my mum, sister and brother would be happier.

Unfortunately, my dad is beyond help.
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
Last edited by Guitardude19 at Oct 11, 2008,
#6
its a mental condition, if you were going to be an alcoholic, it would have been "embedded" as you will, in your mental patterns and behavior
#7
My father used to be an alcoholic and went to a type of rehab for it. Even though he hasn't had a drink for like 4 years, he says alcohol has never left his mind. It's incurable.
Quote by breakdown123
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#8
I don't know much about alcoholism's intricate ways, but I will tell you this, I dont like that people call it a disease either, just because the word disease, I dont feel is right to use, but it definetely can't be ignored as it is serious issue. Alcoholism in its own right can cause cancer, but that's another discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_and_cancer

go here if you want to read on that.
#9
Alcoholism is not a disease. It is an addiction acquired by conscious behavior.
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#10
i think theres a very small difference between disease and a disorder. personally, i believe that anything which contains a psychological affliction with a substance wouldnt necessarily qualify an ailment as a disease, though naturally there are bound to be cases which blur the boundary.
=MAY THE HAND OF GOD STRIKE THEM DOWN=

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#11
From the NIAAA:

"alcoholism is a disease. The craving that an alcoholic feels for alcohol can be as strong as the need for food or water. An alcoholic will continue to drink despite serious family, health, or legal problems. Like many other diseases, alcoholism is chronic, meaning that it lasts a person's lifetime; it usually follows a predictable course; and it has symptoms. The risk for developing alcoholism is influenced both by a person's genes and by his or her lifestyle."

Excessive amounts of alcohol does damage and impairs function, and can lead to the formation of an impairment involving control through damage to the brain. It's similar to diabetes- causing damage to the Islets of Langerhans leads to the disease. The medical definition of a disease is "an abnormal condition leading to damage and impairment of the body and it's functions." Neurological damage due to alcohol abuse fits in with that definition. The terms alcohol abuse, alcohol addiction and alcoholism are wrongly used interchangably. Alcohol abuse is the lead up to the initial damage, alcohol addiction is psychological, whilst alcoholism is a disease.
#13
Quote by Rising
If we, on the other hand, strongly enforce the philosophy that the power, the responsibility and the choice is in the hands of the drinker; Similarly to the mantra of the little engine that thought he could; should the drinker ''Think he can'' ( provided he really wants to) stop then his subconcious mind will begin to feed on this positive reinforcement and bestow the discipline to moderate their drinking.


My mom was an alcoholic, it was the cause of my parents' divorce. It's not as simple as this. Many people, including my mom, are in COMPLETE denial that alcohol is their problem, and are convinced that the problem lies in the people around them.

You can't fully understand this until you've seen it first-hand. We had two interventions in a month for my mom, inviting close friends and family over to say their part, and she eventually broke down and admitted alcohol was the problem. A week later, she was drinking again.

Alcoholism is a disease. There's no "I think I can" mentality, that's not how it works. At least, not for the majority of cases. Alcoholics don't blame their alcoholism on the fact that people claim it's a disease; they don't blame it at all. They blame everything else.
#14
Quote by Deliriumbassist
From the NIAAA:

"alcoholism is a disease. The craving that an alcoholic feels for alcohol can be as strong as the need for food or water. An alcoholic will continue to drink despite serious family, health, or legal problems. Like many other diseases, alcoholism is chronic, meaning that it lasts a person's lifetime; it usually follows a predictable course; and it has symptoms. The risk for developing alcoholism is influenced both by a person's genes and by his or her lifestyle."


Crap. That doesnt bode well for me. My grandfather was an alcoholic, my dad is and my uncles are, most of the men in my family in the past 80 years have been alcoholics!

I drink a lot but only a couple of times a week.... Im so screwed.
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
#15
Quote by Mad Marius
Alcoholism is not a disease. It is an addiction acquired by conscious behavior.


I wouldn't think about it like that either, in most cases yes, but just like a drug addiction can somewhat be inherited if the mother is doing them while she's pregnant, there's been studies shown that you have a greater tendency to have alcohol problems if your parents were or are alcoholics

http://web4health.info/gr/add-alcohol-inherited.htm
Last edited by Eric 666 at Oct 11, 2008,
#16
Quote by Rising
I might have to write a paper about this in Sociology class at some point this semester so I'd like to see what UG has to say.

I refuse to see Alchoholism as a disease, CANCER is a real disease. Alchoholism is a disease according to the sissies who run this country who are slowly and surely taking away our ability to think for ourselves.

By calling it a disease they imply this notion unto alchoholics that they are impotent and incapable of fighting their urges and overcoming their problem. The more you grind this into their minds; the more and more their minds start to BELIEVE it and before you know it, these people have completely lost the will and strenght to fight it and have resigned themselves to religious doctrine or prescribed drugs. Perpetually drifting in an unstable state of self-pity and weakness.

If we, on the other hand, strongly enforce the philosophy that the power, the responsibility and the choice is in the hands of the drinker; Similarly to the mantra of the little engine that thought he could; should the drinker ''Think he can'' ( provided he really wants to) stop then his subconcious mind will begin to feed on this positive reinforcement and bestow the discipline to moderate their drinking.

By and large, I'm saying that people who go around labelling things like this as epidemics are taking away the strenght of the individual to get over it him or herself.

Retort/Agree/Discuss.



My grandmother is an alcoholic she drinks every night, and even when she is wasted she STILL can spell better than yourself.
#17
I've known alcoholics, and it's not a disease, it's an addiction.

If you're going to call alcoholism a disease, you have to call coke addiction and meth addiction and heroin addiction and pill addictions diseases too.
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.


-Jimi Hendrix-

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#20
Quote by Eric 666
I wouldn't think about it like that either, in most cases yes, but just like a drug addiction can somewhat be inherited if the mother is doing them while she's pregnant, there's been studies shown that you have a greater tendency to have alcohol problems if your parents were alcoholics at the time when your mother was pregnant, its all explained here.

http://web4health.info/gr/add-alcohol-inherited.htm


The fact that the tendency toward a certain behavior can be inherited from parents isn't enough to call it a disease.

Quote by Deliriumbassist

Excessive amounts of alcohol does damage and impairs function, and can lead to the formation of an addiction through damage to the brain. It's similar to diabetes- causing damage to the Islets of Langerhans leads to the disease. The medical definition of a disease is "an abnormal condition leading to damage and impairment of the body and it's functions." Neurological damage due to alcohol abuse fits in with that definition. The terms alcohol abuse, alcohol addiction and alcoholism are wrongly used interchangably. Alcohol abuse is the lead up to the initial damage, alcohol addiction is psychological, whilst alcoholism is a disease.


Hitting your head on your desk repeatedly may also cause neurological damage and impair function, that doesn't mean it's a disease.

It's nothing like diabetes. Diabetes doesn't involve a perfectly healthy person damaging themselves by behaving a certain way.

It is behavior. Voluntary action. Which, of course, leads to all sorts of problems. But, to put it simply, "they did it to themselves", it wasn't a virus, or a pathogen, or anything beyond their control.

The idea that alcoholism is a disease is put forward so that sufferers from alcohol addiction don't have to feel responsible for the results of their own actions. All of a sudden, they're not chronic drunks, they're "victims".
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
Last edited by Mad Marius at Oct 11, 2008,
#21
Quote by Rising
I refuse to see Alchoholism as a disease,
* Alcoholism.

Stay in the dark and totally ignore all the chemical, physiological, and psychological effects of alcohol and the nature of addiction itself. Really, it's okay. I personally don't give a shit whether you grow or not.

The dynamics and root causes of cancer and alcoholism are vastly different. But that doesn't preclude classifying alcoholism as a disease.

Quote by Rising
people who go around labelling things like this as epidemics are taking away the strenght of the individual to get over it him or herself.
*Labeling.
*Strength.

No. Even with self-motivation, an alcoholic is rarely able to manage the addiction by him/herself. To suggest that would likely to happen is preposterous. And your premise that the labeling lessens the strength of the afflicted is naive.

Let me put this in simpler terms:

No.


...
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#22
ITT: People who have never been/known an alcoholic.

I can't be bothered getting involved, but there is a whole lot of shit talking going on here.
#23
Quote by Mad Marius
The fact that the tendency toward a certain behavior can be inherited from parents isn't enough to call it a disease.


Then again as I said before, I dont like to use the word disease when describing alcoholism, it just doesn't feel right to me, so I didn't call it a disease.
#24
Quote by Vermintide
ITT: People who have never been/known an alcoholic.

I can't be bothered getting involved, but there is a whole lot of shit talking going on here.
Wanna bet?
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#26
Quote by Vermintide
ITT: People who have never been/known an alcoholic.

I can't be bothered getting involved, but there is a whole lot of shit talking going on here.


Does one have to know an alcoholic to find the definiton for alcoholism?
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#27
Quote by Kensai
Does one have to know an alcoholic to find the definiton for alcoholism?

No, but experiencing it first hand gives you much better perspective.
#28
Quote by dudetheman
I've known alcoholics, and it's not a disease, it's an addiction.

If you're going to call alcoholism a disease, you have to call coke addiction and meth addiction and heroin addiction and pill addictions diseases too.

Exactly.

Then we're arresting people for having a ''Disease''. I could see those people starting a union and several protests on the premise that Multiple Sclerosis patients are'nt while they (innocent disease victims in this case) are arrested!

Political correctness is madness!
#29
Quote by Vermintide
No, but experiencing it first hand gives you much better perspective.


It might give the person a better "perspective" but its a terrible position to be in. I wouldnt wish it on anyone to have to live with and look after an alcoholic.
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
#30
Quote by Rising
Exactly.

Then we're arresting people for having a ''Disease''. I could see those people starting a union and several protests on the premise that Multiple Sclerosis patients are'nt while they (innocent disease victims in this case) are arrested!

Political correctness is madness!


But...no. As I stated in my previous post, alcohol addiction and alcoholism are two separate things with two separate causes, even if the cause of an addiction has not been agreed upon.
#31
Quote by Kensai
Well, alcoholism is a chronic disease consisting of genetic, psychosocial, and environmental elements. But I do agree with:


Some people refuse to fight it because they think "oh, it's out of my control, it's an incurable disease" but changin the name of it won't help.



*dununun dununun*

PSYCHOSOCIAL!

PSYCHOSOCIAL!

PSYCHOSOCIAL!

PSYCHOSOCIAL!

I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.
Quote by duncang
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he's got the fire and the fury,
at his command
well you don't have to worry,
if you hold onto jesus' hand
#32
The word diesease implies that it is not their fault.
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
so what you're saying is that, after getting out of the water naked with 5+ guys, you thought that once the girls were around you had better get some clothes on?

.......
#33
Quote by TheHobbit
The word diesease implies that it is not their fault.

How? You can get dieases like the common cold by going outside in the cold, wet. That's arguably self inflicted.

My best friend is actually a recovering alcoholic. She works full time, she studies for A Levels in her own time. She is self dependent.

And you'd never know.
#34
It's just an addiction really...
Quote by Craigo
How? You can get dieases like the common cold by going outside in the cold, wet. That's arguably self inflicted.
No it's not. That's like saying it's your fault if you leave your bike in your garden without a lock and someone steals it.

I know a lot about alcoholics, after all, my dad is one, and both of my granddads were also alcoholics.
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You'll Never Walk Alone
Last edited by kidsilcon at Oct 11, 2008,
#35
Quote by Mad Marius

It's nothing like diabetes. Diabetes doesn't involve a perfectly healthy person damaging themselves by behaving a certain way.


Type 2 diabetes mellitus is positively correlated with obesity, where someone's choice in diet has increased their body weight and their resistance to insulin. Healthy person, starts a horrendous diet... DISEASE!

Or I could use silicosis as an example. People choose to work in mines, they inhale the dust, and develop silicosis. Perfectly healthy person, contracting a disease through their choice.

A healthy person starts smoking, develops bronchitis, a disease of the lungs. I could keep going on like this.

A disease does NOT have to be started by a virus or pathogen. It can be caused by anything that allows the body to have impaired function or allow it to cause damage to itself- an injury due to banging ones head on a table does not constitute a disease. Banging ones head on the table leading to a haemorrhage and then impairment of, let's say, the pituitary gland. That impairment is a disease. Alcohol abuse damages a part of the brain that governs control of alcohol consumption (e.g. cravings) is a disease by definition.
#36
Quote by Vermintide
Which was it then?
Known. My two best friends (they're brothers) and my ex's mother and brother. I've had waaaaaay more direct contact with alcoholics than I would wish on anyone


Quote by Rising
Exactly.

Then we're arresting people for having a ''Disease''. I could see those people starting a union and several protests on the premise that Multiple Sclerosis patients are'nt while they (innocent disease victims in this case) are arrested!

Political correctness is madness!
Nice try.

No. We arrest people for their actions. No alcoholic has been arrested for having the disease. Tons have been arrested for the shit they do while drunk. Anyone suffering from MS would also be arrested for the same actions.

No.


Care to stick your foot in your mouth one more time? Go for a tri-fecta?
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#37
Quote by Deliriumbassist

A healthy person starts smoking, develops bronchitis, a disease of the lungs. I could keep going on like this.

Yes, but in hindsight it's the same principle as someone being addicted to smoking as someone being addicted to alcohol. But then that's like saying smokers have a disease in the same respect that alcoholics do... but we all know that is bullshit.
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You'll Never Walk Alone
#38
Quote by Vermintide
No, but experiencing it first hand gives you much better perspective.


Or worse. Still, having alcoholism doesnt make you a master of definitions, very much like having a house doesn't make you a master of housebuilding.

Quote by CTFOD
*dununun dununun*

PSYCHOSOCIAL!

PSYCHOSOCIAL!

PSYCHOSOCIAL!

PSYCHOSOCIAL!

I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.


I have no idea what just happened here

Quote by TheHobbit
The word diesease implies that it is not their fault.


Which it may very well be; the addiction being inherited and all.
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#39
Quote by kidsilcon
Yes, but in hindsight it's the same principle as someone being addicted to smoking as someone being addicted to alcohol. But then that's like saying smokers have a disease in the same respect that alcoholics do... but we all know that is bullshit.


However, alcoholism and bronchitis don't have to stem from alcohol abuse or smoking- there are other causes. Neurological damage from birth or from trauma can lead to alcoholism, and anything that inflammates the lungs can lead to bronchitis. It's not letting either alcohol abusers or smokers off- both dieases have pathological causes. I'm not saying addicition is pathological, but alcoholism is not an addicition. I firmly believe that an addiction is psychological as opposed to physiological, and that alcoholism is physiological.
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