Poll: What is the level of Crisis
Poll Options
View poll results: What is the level of Crisis
Recession
45 46%
Panic
38 39%
Depression
14 14%
Voters: 97.
Page 1 of 2
#1
hi i was just having a conversation with my mom about both the level of the world economic crisis and how to solve said crisis

so my question to you is are we in an
A. Recession
B. Panic
C. Depression

and how do we solve said problem. i believe that the key is for further regulation of the market place and instead of massive corporate tax cuts instead we implement lower class tax cuts and tax refunds. if the world economic crisis goes further down the drain then we implement massive public works projects to give unemployed people money which they can then spend to stimulate the economy.
I shot JR

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#3
Financial markets are all fucked. There is very limited liquidity in the banking system, so first of all we need to increase the liquidity so that financial insitutions don't go down the shitter.
That's just the first step though. More steps need to be taken to increase consumer spending and confidence.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#4
As I said in another thread:

What I am really afraid of is a third world war.

From what I learnt from my economy classes, the only way out of a world recession is a world war or some plan that would be ****ing awesome.

But , at this moment of the history, our economic crisises(?) have all been resolved by wars. Probably because one country failed, the other gets teh cash and uh... I forgot the steps.

1:War for *insert reason here*
2:Win war
3:Get your war profits (cash, conditions of winning, what the defeated country must do)
4:???/
5:Profit!

Unless we do something now, we will all be poor asses untill a world war is declared or something else.


EDIT: We are definitely going in a recession, really. We're fcked. Whe got all the symptoms of a recession coming, and when we have them, there's no doubt that we're in the shet.

Unless we find something fking briliant, we're f*cked guise.
Last edited by kevC4 at Oct 12, 2008,
#5
Well, there's no doubt about it now. We're moving into depression and it's definitely going to take a lot of cooperation from the rest of the world to get us back on track. (I dont know why the rest of america is so opposed to getting help from the outside) We can look forward to a lot of long years of fixing the damage made over the last 6 months
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#6
D. 9000+

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#7
Quote by kevC4
As I said in another thread:
I was too lazy to reexplain all that, so I found my old post and there.


Wrong. The exponential growth in economies during a war leads to a big recession. See: World War I. Also, world recessions have been gotten out of, such as the financial crisis caused by the collapse of Asian markets in 1997.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#8
Quote by BostonLP
Well, there's no doubt about it now. We're moving into depression and it's definitely going to take a lot of cooperation from the rest of the world to get us back on track. (I dont know why the rest of america is so opposed to getting help from the outside) We can look forward to a lot of long years of fixing the damage made over the last 6 months


you realize of course that we're already 1.6 quadrillion dollars in debt? no one WANTS to help us
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#9
Quote by dann_blood
Wrong. The exponential growth in economies during a war leads to a big recession. See: World War I. Also, world recessions have been gotten out of, such as the financial crisis caused by the collapse of Asian markets in 1997.


Big recession yes. But read again what I posted about profits.

Right after the second world war ended, and the first one also, everyone was liek happyness in teh actions (buying , compagnies we're recreating themselves, etc).

The asian market thing ... Once again, I said that in the post there.

We already have countries in war... but we get no profit. That's the problem.

We continue freaking spending and waiting and it just goes worst. That's why something big like a world war could happen, or else.
#10
Well a depression would mean that something extremely horrible has happened i.e. that the credit markets have frozen. That hasnt happened yet so id say its a recession, i.e. two straight quarters in decline. I'm pretty sure that it could become a depression. I dont know about canada, but in america i haven't seen anyone on the street flipping out hard core. Guys who work with stocks and bonds, and in banks are flippin out, but the regular guy just doesnt have that much money in stocks. Now the credit card companies are tightening credit, which sucks for homebuyers and purchasers of large goods, so those who cant outright afford those things are getting screwed alittle. I agree that there has to be some type of break for the little guy, and there has to be more regulation over companies. It is insane to think about deregulation in this day and age. Adam Smith's invisible hand has not been true for well over a hundred years, and any belief in a self-righting market is retarded. In the end the most important thing is honoring the side of the contract that any government creates with its citizens, that of upholding their safety, dignity, life, and whatever it takes to do those things. It may seem silly in our age of fast paced commerce and technology, and our opulent corpulence (to which i mean the fact that there is simply so much stuff to be had), to talk about something as simple as basic rights, but this is the dilemma that we have when governments allow economic freedom to trump the basic necessities of their people. I have nothing against some form of trade government, thats for sure, and I do feel that economic freedoms can help boost self-determination and realization, But when one believes that stubborn and bullheaded clinging to tradition and inflexibility to problems that demand new, innovative, or inventive solutions, they are asking for a problem
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#11
Quote by Drmckool
hi i was just having a conversation with my mom about both the level of the world economic crisis and how to solve said crisis

so my question to you is are we in an
A. Recession
B. Panic
C. Depression

and how do we solve said problem. i believe that the key is for further regulation of the market place and instead of massive corporate tax cuts instead we implement lower class tax cuts and tax refunds. if the world economic crisis goes further down the drain then we implement massive public works projects to give unemployed people money which they can then spend to stimulate the economy.



No offense man, but I don't think you quite understand the situation right now.

It is no longer a matter of market regulation or de-regulation anymore. It is too late for either of those methods to do any good, or even any damage.

The problem is that NO ONE really understands what is happening. It technically does not make any sense. Economists around the world are baffled by what is happening and noone knows whether any plan that is put forth by anyone will actually have an impact.

We got hit by a double whammy. A lot of the U.S.'s major banks got hit by bad debt in the terms of mortgages that could never get paid. As this began to happen, people started to lost confidence in their banks, in other words, other financial institutions began to refuse to loan other banks money, funds that were necessary for said banks to conduct their day to day business. In example, we can take a look at Lehman Bros. When they went up for sale a few major banks took a look at their financial records and dropped them like they were hot. No one would come near them. This fear and lack of trust began to spread through the financial system.

Now the inter-bank lending right is higher than it has ever been, possibly the highest it has ever been. Even governments injecting money into the markets doesn't seem to be doing what we need it to do.

Here is an article from Reuters with some up-to-date info on the current crisis.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49A36O20081011

The IMF recently came out and said that the world's financial system is on the brink of collapse.

Quote by Reuters
The United States appealed for patience, but the International Monetary Fund stressed that time was running short after leading industrialized nations failed to agree on concrete measures to end the crisis at a meeting on Friday.

"Intensifying solvency concerns about a number of the largest U.S.-based and European financial institutions have pushed the global financial system to the brink of systemic meltdown," IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn said.



Here is another interesting quote:

Quote by Reuters
U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said risks to the global economy were "the most serious and challenging in recent memory."


Basically, we are in a recession, quickly approaching a depression and within reasonable view of a panic if things keep going as badly as they are going right now.
There may be times when it is impossible to prevent injustice, but there should never be a time when we fail to protest it.


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Last edited by Seryaph at Oct 12, 2008,
#12
Quote by Seryaph
No offense man, but I don't think you quite understand the situation right now.

It is no longer a matter of market regulation or de-regulation anymore. It is to late for either of those methods to do any good, or even any damage.

The problem is that NO ONE quites understands what is happening. It technically does not make any sense. Economists around the world are baffled by what is happening and noone knows whether any plan that is put forth by anyone will actually have an impact.

Here is an article from Reuters with some up-to-date info on the current crisis.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49A36O20081011

The IMF recently came out and said that the world's financial system is on the brink of collapse.


Here is another interesting quote:


Basically, we are in a recession, quickly approaching a depression and within reasonable view of a panic if things keep going as badly as they are going right now.


I've been talking about this with my father and many people and I'm thinking...

Conspiration.

I don't know if I should make a thread about this, since we already have the economic thread and this. But I think something is going on , but I do not want to talk about this in here since it would make the subject of this thread too enlarged and etc.

OR it's simple : america fked up with all their debts and bank&house thingies.
#13
Quote by humperdunk
you realize of course that we're already 1.6 quadrillion dollars in debt? no one WANTS to help us


They might have to, though. Think about it, America consumes ALOT of stuff, when was the last time you saw something made in America? Chances are, you haven't. Everything is made in China. If we go broke, China loses it's biggest customer. If we go broke, they go broke. On top of that, if we go bankrupt, the oil producing countries would lose business with the country that consumes 25% of oil in the world. That would lead to a worldwide recession. I don't think they want that to happen.

But to answer the TS question, I think it's a panic. The economy's downfall is basically a self-fufilling prophecy. If people think that the economy is gonna fail, they take their money out and then BAM it fails. I think people need to calm the fuck down, because it's making a mess out of things.
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Last edited by black007hawk2 at Oct 12, 2008,
#14
They might have to, though. Think about it, America consumes ALOT of stuff, when was the last time you saw something made in America? Chances are, you haven't. Everything is made in China. If we go broke, China loses it's biggest customer. If we go broke, they go broke. On top of that, if we go bankrupt, the oil producing countries would lose business with the country that consumes 25% of oil in the world. That would lead to a worldwide recession. I don't think they want that to happen.

But to answer the TS question, I think it's a panic. The economy's downfall is basically a self-fufilling prophecy. If people think that the economy is gonna fail,
#15
They might have to, though. Think about it, America consumes ALOT of stuff, when was the last time you saw something made in America? Chances are, you haven't. Everything is made in China. If we go broke, China loses it's biggest customer. If we go broke, they go broke. On top of that, if we go bankrupt, the oil producing countries would lose business with the country that consumes 25% of oil in the world. That would lead to a worldwide recession. I don't think they want that to happen.

But to answer the TS question, I think it's a panic. The economy's downfall is basically a self-fufilling prophecy. If people think that the economy is gonna fail, they take their money out and then BAM it fails. I think people need to calm the fuuk down, because it's making a mess out of things.


First of all, I am pretty sure that our debt is nowhere near the quadrillions. We are still in the trillions.

Secondly, America imports some 30% of its produced goods from China. While the amount of things we produce has gone down dramatically (and that is a considerable problem) America still produces quite a bit of things, especially things that are important for an economy, such as energy, steel, concrete, etc.

Aside from that, I agree with your last point and the necessity of keeping the American economy going.
There may be times when it is impossible to prevent injustice, but there should never be a time when we fail to protest it.


Take a trip down the Scenic River


Call me Charlie.
#16
Quote by Seryaph
First of all, I am pretty sure that our debt is nowhere near the quadrillions. We are still in the trillions.

Secondly, America imports some 30% of its produced goods from China. While the amount of things we produce has gone down dramatically (and that is a considerable problem) America still produces quite a bit of things, especially things that are important for an economy, such as energy, steel, concrete, etc.

Aside from that, I agree with your last point and the necessity of keeping the American economy going.


America products alot of things yes.

But they buy things from china really really cheap.

Imagine if all of those things we're produced in america... Damn...

It would be so fkin expensive for manufacs.

Guise , we're fked. =/
#17
Quote by kevC4
Dis. I learnt that in economy classes too.

And you know what guise? Keep some money on you and wait for the recession, then buy some actions from some big compagny or raising ones.

You'll see.. you'll be rich as Bill Gates [errr kay maybe less] in 5-10 years.


It's nice to know that I'm not the only educated Pit-monkey around these parts.

Quote by Seryaph
First of all, I am pretty sure that our debt is nowhere near the quadrillions. We are still in the trillions.
ntry w
Secondly, America imports some 30% of its produced goods from China. While the amount of things we produce has gone down dramatically (and that is a considerable problem) America still produces quite a bit of things, especially things that are important for an economy, such as energy, steel, concrete, etc.

Aside from that, I agree with your last point and the necessity of keeping the American economy going.


True, true. I had consumer goods in mind when I said that, not steel and electricity.
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Last edited by black007hawk2 at Oct 12, 2008,
#18
Quote by Jazzcore23
Well a depression would mean that something extremely horrible has happened i.e. that the credit markets have frozen. That hasnt happened yet so id say its a recession, i.e. two straight quarters in decline. I'm pretty sure that it could become a depression. I dont know about canada, but in america i haven't seen anyone on the street flipping out hard core. Guys who work with stocks and bonds, and in banks are flippin out, but the regular guy just doesnt have that much money in stocks. Now the credit card companies are tightening credit, which sucks for homebuyers and purchasers of large goods, so those who cant outright afford those things are getting screwed alittle. I agree that there has to be some type of break for the little guy, and there has to be more regulation over companies. It is insane to think about deregulation in this day and age. Adam Smith's invisible hand has not been true for well over a hundred years, and any belief in a self-righting market is retarded. In the end the most important thing is honoring the side of the contract that any government creates with its citizens, that of upholding their safety, dignity, life, and whatever it takes to do those things. It may seem silly in our age of fast paced commerce and technology, and our opulent corpulence (to which i mean the fact that there is simply so much stuff to be had), to talk about something as simple as basic rights, but this is the dilemma that we have when governments allow economic freedom to trump the basic necessities of their people. I have nothing against some form of trade government, thats for sure, and I do feel that economic freedoms can help boost self-determination and realization, But when one believes that stubborn and bullheaded clinging to tradition and inflexibility to problems that demand new, innovative, or inventive solutions, they are asking for a problem


This guy knows what hes talking about.
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#19
I'd say recession... Depression would be worse.

But honestly, part of me actually hopes for depression, so everyone who has been SAYING it will happen for the past few years will be satisfied with their theory and finally STFU about it. Although I'd hope we could get un-depressed quickly Yeah, I HATE talking about the economy so don't judge me by this post please
#20
Quote by Seryaph
No offense man, but I don't think you quite understand the situation right now.

It is no longer a matter of market regulation or de-regulation anymore. It is too late for either of those methods to do any good, or even any damage.

The problem is that NO ONE really understands what is happening. It technically does not make any sense. Economists around the world are baffled by what is happening and noone knows whether any plan that is put forth by anyone will actually have an impact.

We got hit by a double whammy. A lot of the U.S.'s major banks got hit by bad debt in the terms of mortgages that could never get paid. As this began to happen, people started to lost confidence in their banks, in other words, other financial institutions began to refuse to loan other banks money, funds that were necessary for said banks to conduct their day to day business. In example, we can take a look at Lehman Bros. When they went up for sale a few major banks took a look at their financial records and dropped them like they were hot. No one would come near them. This fear and lack of trust began to spread through the financial system.

Now the inter-bank lending right is higher than it has ever been, possibly the highest it has ever been. Even governments injecting money into the markets doesn't seem to be doing what we need it to do.

Here is an article from Reuters with some up-to-date info on the current crisis.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49A36O20081011

The IMF recently came out and said that the world's financial system is on the brink of collapse.
.


i'm just speaking form the Canadian perspective because currently our banks are still in fairly good shape and we are just in a slight recession at the moment, we are a few steps behind America on the way to collapse so we can still salvage our economy if we just regulate a little bit further. however, i agree with you that in america it is ridiculous that no body knows what has gone wrong, what is really going wrong or how to fix the situation
I shot JR

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#21
Quote by Drmckool
i'm just speaking form the Canadian perspective because currently our banks are still in fairly good shape and we are just in a slight recession at the moment, we are a few steps behind America on the way to collapse so we can still salvage our economy if we just regulate a little bit further. however, i agree with you that in america it is ridiculous that no body knows what has gone wrong, what is really going wrong or how to fix the situation



I see your point. But this is quickly spreading. The Euro zone has already had to nationalize several banks and are quickly drafting up a bailout plan of their own. Britain has already put one into work, unless I am mistaken.

Stock markets around the globe are falling. The Han Seng index in China lost 12% of its value in one day. In a matter of a week and a half global stock markets have hit their lowest point in 5 years.

The problem with the frozen credit markets is that, in our global economy, every bank took and gave loans to banks from all over the world. Banks are beginning to fail everywhere. Icebank, in Iceland, failed a few days ago. Halifax was nationalzed in Britain. As I said earlier, several banks in Europe have had to be bought up by their governments.

Things are getting pretty crazy.
There may be times when it is impossible to prevent injustice, but there should never be a time when we fail to protest it.


Take a trip down the Scenic River


Call me Charlie.
#22
Quote by Drmckool
i'm just speaking form the Canadian perspective because currently our banks are still in fairly good shape and we are just in a slight recession at the moment, we are a few steps behind America on the way to collapse so we can still salvage our economy if we just regulate a little bit further. however, i agree with you that in america it is ridiculous that no body knows what has gone wrong, what is really going wrong or how to fix the situation


Yea our banks are teh shet man.

It's cause we only have a few and they are controlled by the government.

In america, if you have the cash, you can build up your own bank. In here , you can't or you should but very very very freaking hardly and the gov. has to approve it and they wouldn't kinda since they want to have a restricted amount of banks.

So less banks we have, it's better since they have their own business, they don't have too much competition or they don't even have any sometimes, so they stay stable.

But yea , Canada's kinda fine. We have little problems but it's still good. But we will get into it probably.
#23
Me and my friend were having this conversation yesterday.

We're both pretty ignorant on the topic, so it didn't go too far.
#24
Quote by kevC4
Big recession yes. But read again what I posted about profits.

Right after the second world war ended, and the first one also, everyone was liek happyness in teh actions (buying , compagnies we're recreating themselves, etc).

The asian market thing ... Once again, I said that in the post there.

We already have countries in war... but we get no profit. That's the problem.

We continue freaking spending and waiting and it just goes worst. That's why something big like a world war could happen, or else.


After the World Wars there was increased spending. However, after the second World War, America had become the biggest superpower due to WWII occurring. When America entered the war, they had to expand their industries due to the huge demands of the war. Continuous wars until the early 70's helped them avoid recession, and by that time they were still producing alot of goods and services. Now, they've completely either stopped or outsourced most of that to China and other rapidly industrialising countries.
The Asian Market Crisis wasn't fixed by war.
The reason there is no profit for America from the war is because they are buying alot of the things theyre using from other countries.
A World War won't happen. That's just fear-mongering, and is completely unfounded.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#25
Quote by dann_blood
After the World Wars there was increased spending. However, after the second World War, America had become the biggest superpower due to WWII occurring. When America entered the war, they had to expand their industries due to the huge demands of the war. Continuous wars until the early 70's helped them avoid recession, and by that time they were still producing alot of goods and services. Now, they've completely either stopped or outsourced most of that to China and other rapidly industrialising countries.
The Asian Market Crisis wasn't fixed by war.
The reason there is no profit for America from the war is because they are buying alot of the things theyre using from other countries.
A World War won't happen. That's just fear-mongering, and is completely unfounded.



America has begun to produce a lot more services then we used to back in the 1970s. That is what the economy here is primarily geared around.

And I kind of agree with you about the World War thing . . . but I think it mainly depends on the scarcity of resources much more than on a lack of credit. If oil production keeps going the way it is going and the world economies remain set on oil for energy and propulsion, well . . . we may yet live to see a World War III
There may be times when it is impossible to prevent injustice, but there should never be a time when we fail to protest it.


Take a trip down the Scenic River


Call me Charlie.
#26
I think the problem is that virtually nobody understands the financial crisis, myself included.
#27
Quote by dann_blood
After the World Wars there was increased spending. However, after the second World War, America had become the biggest superpower due to WWII occurring. When America entered the war, they had to expand their industries due to the huge demands of the war. Continuous wars until the early 70's helped them avoid recession, and by that time they were still producing alot of goods and services. Now, they've completely either stopped or outsourced most of that to China and other rapidly industrialising countries.
The Asian Market Crisis wasn't fixed by war.
The reason there is no profit for America from the war is because they are buying alot of the things theyre using from other countries.
A World War won't happen. That's just fear-mongering, and is completely unfounded.


Well I kinda know that a world war wouldn't happen since we aren't going really deep into recession. But if it turns into a big depression, then we'll be fcked if nothing happens.

And once again... I alerady talked about the asian market thing. And it wasn't big enough for a war still.

But all the economic problems we have right now won't be fixed as fast as we can , really. Unless a plan is done right now, we'll have problems since everything will go down slowly. And then, it will just crash.

That's why I was talking about a war. You know, the economy of today is really big, a lot changed since 1929 [the big depression] and since the economy is more unstable and unpredictable, I have something in my head that says that it might go more wrong than it did before since the economy is more "hard" than before.

But eh, we still have hope in smart people. Not only the economy changed, but people too. There will be some plans in the future to prevent this.

Also, I'm afraid of "plans". Some of them might work but uhhh... it's like an hemoragia? (can't remember the english word, in french it's hemoragie). If we add more blood to your body, it will still go out from your cut or w/e.

What I mean is that we will probably just slow down the recession, not prevent it [reference to the plan Bush proposed to save banks, it would have probably acted like this].

And if it all goes down slowly and waste all our money on "plans" , we might fall into depression...

I am studying economy right now so anyway... I am discussing all those theories right now with mates and teachers. We even have a conspiracy theory but like I said in a post in this thread, the subject might just go too vague.

And my teacher really did say that there could be a war[big war, world war maybe] unless, and I'm freaking repeating myself, some big plan succeeds to make the economic balance come back to normal. We even talked about changing our economic system [like to comunist or something?] but anyway.
#29
Quote by kevC4
Well I kinda know that a world war wouldn't happen since we aren't going really deep into recession. But if it turns into a big depression, then we'll be fcked if nothing happens.

It will be a really deep recession. Really deep recessions are precursors to depressions, which are insanely deep recessions.

And once again... I alerady talked about the asian market thing. And it wasn't big enough for a war still.


But you didn't talk about the asian markets. The asian market crisis was solved by an injection of about $40 billion and good fiscal policy by the governments.

But all the economic problems we have right now won't be fixed as fast as we can , really. Unless a plan is done right now, we'll have problems since everything will go down slowly. And then, it will just crash.


Hence, the bailout. Everything is crashing right now. Financial markets all over the world have lost around 30% of their total value in a fortnight.

That's why I was talking about a war. You know, the economy of today is really big, a lot changed since 1929 [the big depression] and since the economy is more unstable and unpredictable, I have something in my head that says that it might go more wrong than it did before since the economy is more "hard" than before.


War isn't the only solution to a recession. There have been plenty of small recessions, and big recessions, that have been fixed without war. The Great Depression had ended before WWII started.
Things can go wrong, because since the 70's and 80's the markets have been deregulated to the extent where they are essentially free markets. Previous to that, the Government had alot of control over the markets.

But eh, we still have hope in smart people. Not only the economy changed, but people too. There will be some plans in the future to prevent this.


There is no prevention of recession. It's a part of the economic cycle.

Also, I'm afraid of "plans". Some of them might work but uhhh... it's like an hemoragia? (can't remember the english word, in french it's hemoragie). If we add more blood to your body, it will still go out from your cut or w/e.

What I mean is that we will probably just slow down the recession, not prevent it [reference to the plan Bush proposed to save banks, it would have probably acted like this].


We can't prevent recession. The only thing you can do is make it as soft as possible on the rest of the economy, and make it go by as quick as possible.

And if it all goes down slowly and waste all our money on "plans" , we might fall into depression...


Depends on how heavily governments regulate the funds they give out.

I am studying economy right now so anyway... I am discussing all those theories right now with mates and teachers. We even have a conspiracy theory but like I said in a post in this thread, the subject might just go too vague.


A conspiracy theory makes no sense. The government would have no god damn need to do this apart from trying to get a greater control on the market, which they could do anyway through passing bills.

And my teacher really did say that there could be a war[big war, world war maybe] unless, and I'm freaking repeating myself, some big plan succeeds to make the economic balance come back to normal. We even talked about changing our economic system [like to comunist or something?] but anyway.


There could be a war. With China most likely, considering that the US owes around half a trillion in debt. But the instant you declare war on a country, that debt is wiped clean, so it is highly unlikely.
Your teacher was probably talking about a more socialist approach, like the Chinese have in place at the moment.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#30
Quote by Doppelgänger
Me and my friend were having this conversation yesterday.

We're both pretty ignorant on the topic, so it didn't go too far.

dunno why buy your comment made me lol!!!
You're my hero for today!!
#31
Quote by dann_blood
But you didn't talk about the asian markets. The asian market crisis was solved by an injection of about $40 billion and good fiscal policy by the governments.


Dis right. But America=/=China, that's what I was thinking. Each's system is very very different. Well like you probably know, economy is unpredictable so I shall use this:


Hence, the bailout. Everything is crashing right now. Financial markets all over the world have lost around 30% of their total value in a fortnight.


Well ya,we in da shet =/


War isn't the only solution to a recession. There have been plenty of small recessions, and big recessions, that have been fixed without war. The Great Depression had ended before WWII started.


Not really, it ended yea but WWII was really starting, almost like "planned". It was going up because of all the things going in Germany I believe, I'm not 100% sure but it was related to the war.

Things can go wrong, because since the 70's and 80's the markets have been deregulated to the extent where they are essentially free markets. Previous to that, the Government had alot of control over the markets.


That's why I am afraid of a big depression. The system's not the same thing than before. It can or go really worst, or somehow it could save itself.

There is no prevention of recession. It's a part of the economic cycle.

We can't prevent recession. The only thing you can do is make it as soft as possible on the rest of the economy, and make it go by as quick as possible.


That's right and that's where I'm kinda freaking. All those plans that they are doing, if it just doesn't work, we will just spend and spend and it would still crash but because that we spent alot, we would be in more sh*t... :S


A conspiracy theory makes no sense. The government would have no god damn need to do this apart from trying to get a greater control on the market, which they could do anyway through passing bills.


That's what you think.

Let's say there's a conspiracion going on. There could be too much reasons that's why I didn't want to talk about this.

I'll explain one: we were , some months ago or last year or before, in a state were economy was going good. What are the problems that comes: less people working, too much business, too much competition of markets, less actual considerance/caring about businesses, social lifes separating of business(working less, buying less or buying by the "black market" way, what I mean is like buy things to your friends mtrading and etc)(this is already going on in canada) and many other reasons like that. Let's just say "we're too good". Big compagnies and the government can conspirate big things like that just to make all the markets/actions/values/products go down to zero again or something like that. Maybe just a "restart".

It is somehow inhuman yes, but it is possible. Just THAT theory over there and the "why they would do such an incoherent/inhuman thing" is kinda really complex to explain. Seriously I do not want to talk about it .

You may be thinking "this is just illogical, impossible" or something like that, but trust me it really is possible.


There could be a war. With China most likely, considering that the US owes around half a trillion in debt. But the instant you declare war on a country, that debt is wiped clean, so it is highly unlikely.
Your teacher was probably talking about a more socialist approach, like the Chinese have in place at the moment.


I agree with the war thing, but about my teacher... mmm.. I have a doubt still. Because yea, war is still really possible, but it would be only if we erally get in deep sh*t.

edit: Is it ok if I go to sleep, it's 4 am here (Canada)
Last edited by kevC4 at Oct 12, 2008,
#32
Quote by kevC4
Dis right. But America=/=China, that's what I was thinking. Each's system is very very different. Well like you probably know, economy is unpredictable so I shall use this:


China didn't have the same financial crisis. It was affected by it. Taiwan, Japan, countries around that area were more affected.

Not really, it ended yea but WWII was really starting, almost like "planned". It was going up because of all the things going in Germany I believe, I'm not 100% sure but it was related to the war.


Germany had huge productions, the rest of the world didn't. WWII started because Germany started invading other countries, and they started invading other countries to keep their economic growth going.

That's right and that's where I'm kinda freaking. All those plans that they are doing, if it just doesn't work, we will just spend and spend and it would still crash but because that we spent alot, we would be in more sh*t... :S


Not really. With the money theyve spent so far, it can't go wrong unless nobody regulates the way the money is spent.

That's what you think.

Let's say there's a conspiracion going on. There could be too much reasons that's why I didn't want to talk about this.

I'll explain one: we were , some months ago or last year or before, in a state were economy was going good. What are the problems that comes: less people working, too much business, too much competition of markets, less actual considerance/caring about businesses, social lifes separating of business(working less, buying less or buying by the "black market" way, what I mean is like buy things to your friends mtrading and etc)(this is already going on in canada) and many other reasons like that. Let's just say "we're too good". Big compagnies and the government can conspirate big things like that just to make all the markets/actions/values/products go down to zero again or something like that. Maybe just a "restart".

It is somehow inhuman yes, but it is possible. Just THAT theory over there and the "why they would do such an incoherent/inhuman thing" is kinda really complex to explain. Seriously I do not want to talk about it .


Wut?
The "conspiracy" you've explained is pretty much ordinary things that happen in the economy. All these things are caused by businesses, the Government has almost no say in any of that except the regulations in place.
It is not a conspiracy. First of all, the US government has been deregulating the market to the extent that they have very little control over the businesses. Second of all, there is no reason for them to do it. Third of all, any business wanting to do this would not be around. One of the main points of business is to make profit, not go bankrupt.

You may be thinking "this is just illogical, impossible" or something like that, but trust me it really is possible.


No, it isn't possible. You're kidding yourself by saying it's a conspiracy, because the government is not solely responsible for this.

I agree with the war thing, but about my teacher... mmm.. I have a doubt still. Because yea, war is still really possible, but it would be only if we erally get in deep sh*t.


Again, wars don't start because of economic troubles. Any country who invades another to get themselves out of recession will blow out all the funds they do have and get destroyed.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#33
What the ****? A country that spends trillions of dollars more than it has having financial difficulties? How does this happen!
#34
Best case scenario is a deep recession, worst case is a worldwide depression. To those who say that nobody understands what is happening you are wrong. Several economists such as Peter Schiff saw this coming years ago, everything they predicted would happen has happened. I think it's pretty obvious that no one in a position of power has any clue what to do and it has resulted in a "rescue" happening every Sunday before the Asian markets open to stop any panic. If you think it's bad now, wait until after the elections. A big crash is coming and soon, gold will rocketshot and the dollar will tank.
#35
the market is diving, because people arent investing.
if everyone invested now, the situation would lift, but they arent so governments are-
its a vicous circle, and it needs everyone to invest now, before we hit the actual floor of the market...
'If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.' Albert Einstein
#37
it would be easier if we were amish, then we'd be laughing
Quote by Zero-Hartman
I saw one of those at Adelaide zoo on Saturday, unfortunatly I did not see his penis.
#38
Quote by Drmckool


and how do we solve said problem. i believe that the key is for further regulation of the market place and instead of massive corporate tax cuts instead we implement lower class tax cuts and tax refunds. if the world economic crisis goes further down the drain then we implement massive public works projects to give unemployed people money which they can then spend to stimulate the economy.


But, if it does go down the drain, where will we find the money to help kicktsart work again?

I'm really not sure what to think about this, I know true capitalists are hoping for a completely unregulated economy, let it all go and whatever comes out the other side will be stronger.

Anyway, I hope HSBC doesn't go down, I've got three pence in there with some serious interest on it.
Quote by DrewsGotTheLife
yea man, who ever doesnt like pantera or think they suck doesnt like metal, end of discussion, they changed the freakin world n made history, so don't be sayin they suck, have respect, same goes for machine head n lamb of god cuz their good too
#39
you would have thought from the 80s that people would realise stock prices don't really mean all that much. market rules, everything equates to its real worth eventually. i say we don't need to do shit, we're going into reccession because they told us we were. so we can all be broke asses for a while and then when it gets better people will value money more. reduced inflation and everybody's happy for another 20 years til we forget what money is worth and spend spend spend til we need another reccession so that a sausage doesn't cost a barrel full of money
#40
Buy a house/laptop/wife/anal probe and don't pay for it for 5 years!

I blame that.
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