#1
my friend is looking to buy a tube head for metal at around £500 ($900-1000).

It needs to be able to achieve dark(ish) metal tones...

We've considered : Laney Vh100r, Laney tt50h, randall rh50t, fireball if he can push his budget higher, and peavey 6505.

Are there any other amps we arent thinking of that he should consider?
#2
why does he need a head?

answer: he doesnt.

If he will drop his image-consciousness and get a combo he can get a used 5150 combo that will sound Killer.
#3
Quote by ClementWave
why does he need a head?

answer: he doesnt.

If he will drop his image-consciousness and get a combo he can get a used 5150 combo that will sound Killer.


This is true, unless he already has a cab...

Out of the options given LANEY VH100R!!!

EDIT: Also, I picked up my Laney (with cab) for less than a 5150 combo.
Gear:
Ibanez S470 (EMG 81/S/85)
Sigma DMC-15E
Laney VH100R
Laney 4x12 Cab
Ibanez Weeping Demon
M-Audio ProKeys 88
Mbox 3 Pro
KRK RP6 G2's
Plum Team FTW!

X
Last edited by BobMarleysGhost at Oct 12, 2008,
#4
Quote by ClementWave
why does he need a head?

answer: he doesnt.

If he will drop his image-consciousness and get a combo he can get a used 5150 combo that will sound Killer.

What the hell is with the UG vendetta against heads and cabs?

For sheer versatility and practicality, they beat combos in most aspects.
#5
Quote by ClementWave
why does he need a head?

answer: he doesnt.

If he will drop his image-consciousness and get a combo he can get a used 5150 combo that will sound Killer.


Well, he just does lol
#6
What kind of metal? Uber modern stuff, or thrashy or doomy or stoner...y stuff?
#8
Quote by imgooley
What kind of metal? Uber modern stuff, or thrashy or doomy or stoner...y stuff?


Well not uber high gain, id say more in the area of killswitch type stuff...
#9
Quote by imgooley
What the hell is with the UG vendetta against heads and cabs?

For sheer versatility and practicality, they beat combos in most aspects.

Im sorry, WHAT!?

Head and cab more practical than a combo?
#10
i actuly find my half stack more practical than a combo, i can push it around, instead of break my back lifting it everywhere...
#11
Only 1% of people on this forum, no, not even 1%, more like 0.05% of people play gigs where they need a half-stack.

Combos are cheaper and do just the same thing, the only reason people want them on here is so they can look br00tal
#12
whats wrong with that, its their money. Thats like saying 'a table cloth does the same thing as a shirt, why dont you wear that, its cheaper!'
#14
Quote by ClementWave
Only 1% of people on this forum, no, not even 1%, more like 0.05% of people play gigs where they need a half-stack.

Combos are cheaper and do just the same thing, the only reason people want them on here is so they can look br00tal


As I said earlier, I got my half-stack for less than a used Peavey 5150 combo.
And do combos actually do EXACTLY the same thing (I don't know, this is a genuine question), I have heard that having say, a 4 speaker cab, gives an improved sound, as opposed to the 1 or 2 speakers found in most combos?

I apologise for any noobish remarks I may have just made.
Gear:
Ibanez S470 (EMG 81/S/85)
Sigma DMC-15E
Laney VH100R
Laney 4x12 Cab
Ibanez Weeping Demon
M-Audio ProKeys 88
Mbox 3 Pro
KRK RP6 G2's
Plum Team FTW!

X
#15
Quote by BobMarleysGhost
As I said earlier, I got my half-stack for less than a used Peavey 5150 combo.
And do combos actually do EXACTLY the same thing (I don't know, this is a genuine question), I have heard that having say, a 4 speaker cab, gives an improved sound, as opposed to the 1 or 2 speakers found in most combos?

I apologise for any noobish remarks I may have just made.

It pushes more air, but your never going to be able to get it loud enough to use it to its full potential.

EDIT: What I think is wrong with it, is people wanting a halfstack primarily for it being a halfstack and not giving two shites about why its different to a combo, its always like:

"HI IVE GOT 500 DOlloRS CAN YoUS REcomend Me a shaflstack plz, no CoboS because i NEED a ahaflstack!"
#16
Quote by ClementWave
It pushes more air, but your never going to be able to get it loud enough to use it to its full potential.


Is that a challenge?


*returns with damaged ears*

EDIT: Saw your edit. Yeah, I agreed that that is a little silly. But if people get as lucky as I did, and find a quality amp at a good price, I see nothing wrong in getting a halfstack.
Gear:
Ibanez S470 (EMG 81/S/85)
Sigma DMC-15E
Laney VH100R
Laney 4x12 Cab
Ibanez Weeping Demon
M-Audio ProKeys 88
Mbox 3 Pro
KRK RP6 G2's
Plum Team FTW!

X
#17
well i prefer the sound of a 4x12, it just sounds, well... bigger. But having a head/cab set up will be good for him as he can buy a new head and keep the cab for different sounds, or run 2 heads in stereo...


EDIT - Well this inst a thread like that, hes considering actual good amps, its not the line6 spider halstack story here. You cant be telling me that those laney's or ENGL will sound bad compared to a similar priced combo?
Last edited by vitchb at Oct 12, 2008,
#18
Quote by ClementWave
Im sorry, WHAT!?

Head and cab more practical than a combo?

I personally would rather carry a 20 pound head and a 50 pound 2x12 cabinet than a 70 pound 2x12 combo for fear of 1. dropping it and 2. breaking my back.

It's easier to fit separate parts in a small car (say... a 1989 Firebird) than it is to fit a 2x12 combo in the same vehicle.

Plus, I have waaaaaaay more options. I can play any head with any cab as long as wattage and impedance are acceptable.


Quote by ClementWave
Only 1% of people on this forum, no, not even 1%, more like 0.05% of people play gigs where they need a half-stack.

Combos are cheaper and do just the same thing, the only reason people want them on here is so they can look br00tal



Combos are great. Heads and cabs are great. The latter allows more flexibility with tone and speakers.
#19
Quote by ClementWave
Only 1% of people on this forum, no, not even 1%, more like 0.05% of people play gigs where they need a half-stack.

Combos are cheaper and do just the same thing, the only reason people want them on here is so they can look br00tal


most combos are open-backed. closed-back is better for metal. i'd say, at a rough guess, at least 50% of those asking for amp advice play metal.

...

Quote by ClementWave
(a) It pushes more air, but your never going to be able to get it loud enough to use it to its full potential.

(b) EDIT: What I think is wrong with it, is people wanting a halfstack primarily for it being a halfstack and not giving two shites about why its different to a combo, its always like:

(c) "HI IVE GOT 500 DOlloRS CAN YoUS REcomend Me a shaflstack plz, no CoboS because i NEED a ahaflstack!"


(a) sure it is, most of the quality high gain tube combos sound pretty good at even moderate volumes. And it's not like you can easily crank a 50 watt combo either.

(b) that's not the case at all. admittedly they look cool, but there's a reason for them too. not least that a lot of the best high-gainers only come in head form.

(c) reductio ad absurdum, in this instance the threadstarter's friend has enough for a good tube head, he's clearly not looking at MGs, which I'd agree are a waste of time, money and space.

going back to the original question, those would be the main ones i'd be looking at at his price range (which is not to say that I haven't forgotten some either ). However, how flexible is his budget? both the fireball and 6505/5150 will be quite a bit over budget unless he's willing to go used, and if he's willing to stretch that far (new) there may be some other options which would be worth consideration.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
Quote by imgooley
I personally would rather carry a 20 pound head and a 50 pound 2x12 cabinet than a 70 pound 2x12 combo for fear of 1. dropping it and 2. breaking my back.

It's easier to fit separate parts in a small car (say... a 1989 Firebird) than it is to fit a 2x12 combo in the same vehicle.

Plus, I have waaaaaaay more options. I can play any head with any cab as long as wattage and impedance are acceptable.




Combos are great. Heads and cabs are great. The latter allows more flexibility with tone and speakers.


+1

some heads are pretty heavy too, but i haven't seen any as heavy as a 2x12 combo, which can be over 30 kilos (not to mention a lot bigger, bulkier and generally less amenable to carrying).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
well the options of the ENGL and 6505 would be if he decides he can push his budget...
He's considering the bugeras, could this be a good option?
#22
If you can convince him to get the ENGL, it would be a damn-sight better than a Bugera, thing is, it wont sound very good at low volumes, so if he wants to jam at home he might have to sacrifice some of the tone.
#23
^ engls generally sound great at low volumes. don't get me wrong, they sound better up loud, but (for metal) i'd FAR rather have an engl which i could only use at low volumes, than either an inferior amp which is slightly easier to crank (say, the bugera), or something which isn't aimed at metal which is easier to crank (e.g. laney vc30). No question. A heck of a lot (note, i did not say "all") of the metal tone is in the preamp...

EDIT: if you don't mind my asking, what music do you mostly play, clement?
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#24
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ engls generally sound great at low volumes. don't get me wrong, they sound better up loud, but (for metal) i'd FAR rather have an engl which i could only use at low volumes, than either an inferior amp which is slightly easier to crank (say, the bugera), or something which isn't aimed at metal which is easier to crank (e.g. laney vc30). No question. A heck of a lot (note, i did not say "all") of the metal tone is in the preamp...

EDIT: if you don't mind my asking, what music do you mostly play, clement?

I play sort of experimental rock/shoegaze, I just have a really bias dislike for metal music and a love for winding up youths.
#25
Quote by Dave_Mc


EDIT: if you don't mind my asking, what music do you mostly play, clement?

It looks like he has Ben Gibbard from DCFC as his avatar, so I'm guessing Indie.
#26
Quote by imgooley
It looks like he has Ben Gibbard from DCFC as his avatar, so I'm guessing Indie.

You can like a band and not immediately be pidgeon-holed into playing their style.
#27
Quote by ClementWave
I play sort of experimental rock/shoegaze, I just have a really bias dislike for metal music and a love for winding up youths.


On UG, this is a very potent combination.
Gear:
Ibanez S470 (EMG 81/S/85)
Sigma DMC-15E
Laney VH100R
Laney 4x12 Cab
Ibanez Weeping Demon
M-Audio ProKeys 88
Mbox 3 Pro
KRK RP6 G2's
Plum Team FTW!

X
#28
You'll get more joy winding up older people who think they know more than youths...
#29
Quote by ClementWave
You can like a band and not immediately be pidgeon-holed into playing their style.

I didn't mean to sound offensive.

In fact, I own all of DCFC's discography save 2 LPs and an EP. And all I play is blues and jazz.
#30
Quote by imgooley
I didn't mean to sound offensive.

In fact, I own all of DCFC's discography save 2 LPs and an EP. And all I play is blues and jazz.

came across a bit offensively (especially considering calling someone "indie" or playing "indie music" can usually be considered an insult coming from someone who doesn't really know what Indie is), but i totally get where your coming from
#31
Quote by ClementWave
I play sort of experimental rock/shoegaze, I just have a really bias dislike for metal music and a love for winding up youths.


right, that figures... the threadstarter is asking for help about amps which are aimed exclusively at metal. maybe you should gtfo of such threads in future if you can't step into a metalhead's shoes, and instead prefer to give out bad (yes i went there) advice. those amps the threadstarter's friend was looking at were nigh-on perfect for the music he's looking to play (at his budget), what would you prefer he get, a classic 30 as it's "easier to crank"?
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Oct 12, 2008,
#32
Quote by vitchb
You'll get more joy winding up older people who think they know more than youths...


i agree.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?