#1
I just got a 6 string bass thats tuned an octave lower then a guitar. can you guys recommend me some sweet bass riffs to learn? i mainly got it for playing Cure but i wanna learn some bass too. I have guitar experience
#3
You can't really play bass on a baritone guitar.

You can hit the same notes, but it plays nothing like a bass, nor does it sound like one.
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#5
Quote by Doodleface
You can't really play bass on a baritone guitar.

You can hit the same notes, but it plays nothing like a bass, nor does it sound like one.


its a hellcat vi with 30in scale. should be alright i think?
#6
Quote by Multiplayerjon
one band... slipknot
I'm pretty sure he wanted sweet bass riffs...
Referring to Victor Wooten
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#8
alright the reviews ive read say that it works great as a bass, guess i will see in a couple days.
#11
Quote by nickmpower
bump

what do you want?
unles you give a little more insight or want to ask something a bit different I doubt you'll get any different responses.
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#12
If this helps guys, think of it as a Bass VI. 30" scale is "medium" scale for bass, like some Gibsons. TS, I think John Entwistle used a Bass VI for some songs...maybe try out some Who?
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#13
CHeck out the "I need bass songs to learn" Thread sticky, if you want to learn some bass lines.
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#15
I have always wanted to try out a Hellcat VI. I have a Danelectro 6 string BASS and I make 30" scale 8 string instruments tuned e-a-d-g-c-f-a-d. I don't call my instruments basses because by popular definition basses have an extremely limited use and range. My instruments can be played like a bass or a guitar. I like to thing of the Hellcat and my Dano as extended range basses because they tune from the low bass notes up. Not from the guitar notes down like a baritone. Don't let people get you down on these forums because you are doing something different. Play the crap out of that 6 string and love every minute of it. Not only are they great BASSES but they can be used as super low tuned guitars too. Great for metal riffing!!! I think that Billy Sheehan should have gone this route instead of the 4 string.
Last edited by customtom at Nov 26, 2008,
#17
Quote by Mutant Corn
If this helps guys, think of it as a Bass VI. 30" scale is "medium" scale for bass, like some Gibsons. TS, I think John Entwistle used a Bass VI for some songs...maybe try out some Who?
So did Jack Bruce (Cream).
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#18
I just got a 6 string bass thats tuned an octave lower then a guitar. can you guys recommend me some sweet bass riffs to learn? i mainly got it for playing Cure but i wanna learn some bass too. I have guitar experience[/QUOTE


What a waste of money, get a real bass if you want to play bass.
#19
Quote by Sly Taco
Quote by nickmpower
I just got a 6 string bass thats tuned an octave lower then a guitar. can you guys recommend me some sweet bass riffs to learn? i mainly got it for playing Cure but i wanna learn some bass too. I have guitar experience


What a waste of money, get a real bass if you want to play bass.


That's a real snobby attitude man.


Anyways, check this Wikipedia link for some idea of E-E baritone guitar players and the tracks they used them on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_VI
#20
play chords. it's a guitar.

and a bass vi is a baritone guitar, you silly people. and sadly, Jack Bruce and John Entwistle had awful tone back then.

and try some Free, his basslines are all muddy short scale stuff anyway. Mr. Big would be worth a try, that main riff is cool.
Quote by FatalGear41
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Quote by Jason Jillard
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#22
Quote by the humanity
play chords. it's a guitar.

and a bass vi is a baritone guitar, you silly people. and sadly, Jack Bruce and John Entwistle had awful tone back then.

and try some Free, his basslines are all muddy short scale stuff anyway. Mr. Big would be worth a try, that main riff is cool.
If they were recording today they would have decent amplification, if you had listened to 'The Ox' in his final years you would have noticed how superb his tone was. sadly for you your limited knowledge is exposed.
The Fender Bass VI is and was a genuine Bass, what you don't seem to appreciate is that back when the Bass VI first appeared 12" speakers were around 15-25 watts, 15" were up to 35 watts, the most powerful speaker in the UK was a Goodmans 18" with a power handling rating of 50 watts there were also very few dedicated Bass amps including those that claimed to be Bass amps.
I had and still have a Burns Six string guitar scale Bass going back to 1963. It is and sounds like a Bass; I encountered the same sceptisism in the 60s although I didn't call the doubters "silly people".

Go to your room!
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#23
Quote by John Swift
If they were recording today they would have decent amplification, if you had listened to 'The Ox' in his final years you would have noticed how superb his tone was. sadly for you your limited knowledge is exposed.
The Fender Bass VI is and was a genuine Bass, what you don't seem to appreciate is that back when the Bass VI first appeared 12" speakers were around 15-25 watts, 15" were up to 35 watts, the most powerful speaker in the UK was a Goodmans 18" with a power handling rating of 50 watts there were also very few dedicated Bass amps including those that claimed to be Bass amps.
I had and still have a Burns Six string guitar scale Bass going back to 1963. It is and sounds like a Bass; I encountered the same sceptisism in the 60s although I didn't call the doubters "silly people".

Go to your room!


Ahhhh! Grumpy old man syndrome

or is it just the wise man vs. the modern think-they-know-it-all generation? (which I am sad to say I am a part of)
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#24
Quote by Rywad
Ahhhh! Grumpy old man syndrome

or is it just the wise man vs. the modern think-they-know-it-all generation? (which I am sad to say I am a part of)
Just trying to put you straight with some free advice given from years of experience.
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#25
Quote by John Swift
If they were recording today they would have decent amplification, if you had listened to 'The Ox' in his final years you would have noticed how superb his tone was. sadly for you your limited knowledge is exposed.
The Fender Bass VI is and was a genuine Bass, what you don't seem to appreciate is that back when the Bass VI first appeared 12" speakers were around 15-25 watts, 15" were up to 35 watts, the most powerful speaker in the UK was a Goodmans 18" with a power handling rating of 50 watts there were also very few dedicated Bass amps including those that claimed to be Bass amps.
I had and still have a Burns Six string guitar scale Bass going back to 1963. It is and sounds like a Bass; I encountered the same sceptisism in the 60s although I didn't call the doubters "silly people".

Go to your room!

1) I said back then. as in, 60's, 70's. I like how the Ox sounded in his final years, along with Jack Bruce.
2) I played one. it felt like a guitar, it didn't carry low end as well like a guitar, it tuned like a guitar. it even was shaped like a jazzmaster guitar. it was a baritone guitar.
3) most people back then, if given the tonal options available now, would sound much better. your rig now- do you seriously believe the full amp set up from the 50's compares to it? I doubt it.
4) I call everyone silly people. don't be offended. it's not like I wasn't being playful at all.

btw, I'm glad you find that your baritone guitar, which was disguised as a bass to appeal to bass players, sounds like a bass. the fact remains, there isn't a whole lot distinguishing a baritone guitar (BG) from a bass, and this is what makes it that: 2 strings, a high B and high E, and spacing. the Fender VI ad both.

he can still play basslines on it. I never said you couldn't. but it won't sound quite the same, or play quite the same.

Quote by Rywad
Ahhhh! Grumpy old man syndrome

or is it just the wise man vs. the modern think-they-know-it-all generation? (which I am sad to say I am a part of)

I do know it all though...
Quote by FatalGear41
I wouldn't call what we have here on the Bass Forum a mentality. It's more like the sharing part of an AA meeting.

Quote by Jason Jillard
HUMANITY WHATS WRONG WITH YOU.


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Last edited by the humanity at Nov 26, 2008,
#26
Quote by the humanity

2) I played one. it felt like a guitar, it didn't carry low end as well like a guitar, it tuned like a guitar. it even was shaped like a jazzmaster guitar. it was a baritone guitar.
3) most people back then, if given the tonal options available now, would sound much better. your rig now- do you seriously believe the full amp set up from the 50's compares to it? I doubt it.
btw, I'm glad you find that your baritone guitar, which was disguised as a bass to appeal to bass players, sounds like a bass. the fact remains, there isn't a whole lot distinguishing a baritone guitar (BG) from a bass, and this is what makes it that: 2 strings, a high B and high E, and spacing. the Fender VI ad both.

he can still play basslines on it. I never said you couldn't. but it won't sound quite the same, or play quite the same.
I didn't say that a 50s rig could compare to a modern rig.
You're quite wrong about the tuning: baritone guitars are not tuned E to E, the Fender Bass VI was along with my 1962 Burns Split Sound Six String Bass although I tune my Burns EADGCF.
I played my 62 Burns in 60s bands, Dance Orchestra, Traditional Jazz Band so I do think that after 46 years of regular gigging I should know as well as expect a proper Bass tone from a Bass not Baritone guitar.
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#27
Quote by John Swift
I didn't say that a 50s rig could compare to a modern rig.
You're quite wrong about the tuning: baritone guitars are not tuned E to E, the Fender Bass VI was along with my 1962 Burns Split Sound Six String Bass although I tune my Burns EADGCF.
I played my 62 Burns in 60s bands, Dance Orchestra, Traditional Jazz Band so I do think that after 46 years of regular gigging I should know as well as expect a proper Bass tone from a Bass not Baritone guitar.

Fender VI are tuned EADGBE.

maybe your Burns wasn't. but the VI was a Baritone.
Quote by Guitarcenter.com
the Fender Bass VI has built a loyal following among guitarists looking for a baritone guitar with a look and feel similar to the popular Jaguar.
Quote by FatalGear41
I wouldn't call what we have here on the Bass Forum a mentality. It's more like the sharing part of an AA meeting.

Quote by Jason Jillard
HUMANITY WHATS WRONG WITH YOU.


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#28
Quote by the humanity
Fender VI are tuned EADGBE.

maybe your Burns wasn't. but the VI was a Baritone.


Are you for real or what; just how long have you been playing bass for you to claim to be so knowledgable?
Baritone guitars are not tuned E To E some 6 string Basses are I tune my Burns EADGCF for convenience.
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#29
Quote by John Swift
Are you for real or what; just how long have you been playing bass for you to claim to be so knowledgable?
Baritone guitars are not tuned E To E some 6 string Basses are I tune my Burns EADGCF for convenience.

are you for real?
The next big proponent of baritones was Jack Bruce of Cream. His weapon of choice was the legendary Fender Bass VI. Bass players like John Entwhistle followed suit, picking up the Fender baritone as well as legendary guitarists such as George Harrison, John Lennon, Joe Perry and the Cure’s Robert Smith. Believe it or not, even Spinal Tap got into the act, using the Bass VI as Nigel’s “special” guitar in the infamous “don’t touch it” scene.

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2007/Dec/The_Lowdown_on_Baritone_Guitars.aspx

do I need to back up my point any further?

also, you are in part correct, not all baritones are tuned this way:
Another issue to be aware of is its tuning. Some instruments are designed to be tuned a forth or fifth lower than standard guitar tuning, others an octave below. Alternate tunings are encouraged, including open chord tunings for thick, round chords. The normal guitar considerations also need to be considered here: tremolo or stoptail, pickup configurations, neck radius, etc.

same website.
Quote by FatalGear41
I wouldn't call what we have here on the Bass Forum a mentality. It's more like the sharing part of an AA meeting.

Quote by Jason Jillard
HUMANITY WHATS WRONG WITH YOU.


Warwick Fortress>>Acoustic AB50

http://www.myspace.com/rustingbloom
#30
I think the dude from areosmith plays one in the 2nd wayne's world film - that's like, the only time i've ever seen a baritone guitar getting used.
#31
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#32
Quote by the humanity
are you for real?

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2007/Dec/The_Lowdown_on_Baritone_Guitars.aspx

do I need to back up my point any further?

also, you are in part correct, not all baritones are tuned this way:

same website.
This writer who contradicts himself by correctly calling it a Bass in one sentence and then wrongly refering to it as a Baritone in the next is just displaying his lack of actual knowledge regarding the fender Bass VI and also ignoring the fact that it was marketed as a Bass.
This is shot from a Mid 60s Fender catalogue, it seems that you have little or no actual knowledge of the history and just get you informatiom from books/magazines etc. I have played and still play these instruments, of course they feel and play different that is a pretty stupid comment, my 65 Jazz felt and played different to my Stingray 5 but that doesn't mean that it isn't a Bass.



The early hits from Graham (CSNY) Nash's original Band the 'Hollies' were recorded with Eric Haydock using a Fender VI string Bass.
I was around at that time you weren't I doubt that the author of the article who contradicts himself was either.
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#33
Maybe this can clear some things up...

The Fender VI was invented by the same guy that made the first electric bass as we know it, to serve almost the same role, but was intended to appeal to soloists...which is why it didn't catch on back then. Regardless, it was/is still intended to be a bass instrument.

Unlike the P and J basses which were supposed to provide an alternative to the upright bass, the Bass VI appears to have descended directly from the guitar. It is literally a bass guitar. I see it as technically a different instrument, but a bass all the same, and the same goes for John Swift's bass and TS's instrument if he chooses to play it like that.
Nope, no sig here.
Last edited by Mutant Corn at Nov 27, 2008,
#35
Quote by Mutant Corn
Maybe this can clear some things up...

The Fender VI was invented by the same guy that made the first electric bass as we know it, to serve almost the same role, but was intended to appeal to soloists...which is why it didn't catch on back then. Regardless, it was/is still intended to be a bass instrument.

the Bass VI appears to have descended directly from the guitar. It is literally a bass guitar. I see it as technically a different instrument, but a bass all the same, and the same goes for John Swift's bass and TS's instrument if he chooses to play it like that.

Very true we always refered to it as a 'Stretched Jaguar' and typical of Leo Fender desire to constatly break different ground. But as you quite correctly say a bass all the same.
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#36
Quote by John Swift
Very true we always refered to it as a 'Stretched Jaguar' and typical of Leo Fender desire to constatly break different ground. But as you quite correctly say a bass all the same.

let us agree to disagree.

and stick with agreeing that Mutant Corn is right.
Quote by FatalGear41
I wouldn't call what we have here on the Bass Forum a mentality. It's more like the sharing part of an AA meeting.

Quote by Jason Jillard
HUMANITY WHATS WRONG WITH YOU.


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#37
I really don't see why we can't consider it a bass - it's a bass for guitarists in the purest sense. Yeah, I've said Gibson basses aren't 'real basses', but that's because they suck, not because they don't classify as an instrument. The Bass VI has he same scale length as any EB-series Gibson, and the same string gauges, too. It's just made for guitar players to double guitar parts with a bass. With guitar string spacing and electronics, unfortunately.

I really think it's stupid to call an octave-lower instrument a baritone guitar, especially with the same string gauge and scale as a Gibson bass. But people do it anyway. Baritones are tuned B-B or A-A, really.

Fender made a contemporary Bass VI but with a 27" scale - still tuned E-E, but with a much smaller scale. That's closer to straddling the Baritone line. I'd really like to get my hands on one of those things and see what happens. They look cool and like they're a lot of fun.

EDIT: I really think the baritone argument is pretty pointless - the electric bass was barely 10 years old when the Bass VI came out. There was no real archetype that set in at the time - companies were making basses with all sorts of scales and pickups and designs, and this was just one of them. Hell, what about the Carvin doubleneck whose bass neck was the same scale length as the guitar neck? Was that not a bass either?
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Last edited by thefitz at Nov 27, 2008,
#38
The severe amount of misunderstand of what the terms "Bass" and "Baritone" mean in this thread is making my brain hurt.
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