#1
ok im reading the crusades and im on the diatonic 7th chord part.

my question is, besides the root note, do the other notes have to be in order?

because without mixing up the order of the other 3 notes i can't find a good a major 7th shape...
#2
No they don't... ?

If I understand your question correctly. The notes are hardly ever in order on guitars.
#3
If you mean can the chord be inverted...yes? Like Regression said, if you look at almost any chord on a guitar, it's inverted. Some 7th chords are a bitch to play on guitar though.

You can have the notes in any order you want as long as you have the root, 3rd, 5th and 7th in the chord. You can actually even do without the 5th. But if you make the 7th the bass note, it's probably going to sound weird.
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#4
Quote by Regression
No they don't... ?

If I understand your question correctly. The notes are hardly ever in order on guitars.

for example if i have an a major triad, the notes are a c# and e

so for that i chose 5 fret on the low e string, 4th fret on the a string, and 2nd fret on the d-string.

if i want to make it a 7th i needa add and e, but i can't find anywhere that i can reasonably stretch to-to make this happen...

so you're saying as long as the a is the lowest note the other 3 can be jumbled? or does even the a have to be lowest??
#5
What kind of 7th are you attempting to make? Dominant? Secondary Dominant?
And why not play the A chord with the D G and B string 2nd fret.
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#6
Quote by Artemis Entreri
What kind of 7th are you attempting to make? Dominant? Secondary Dominant?
And why not play the A chord with the D G and B string 2nd fret.

i dno im on the crusade lessons i think its just a major a 7th...

k so if the notes can be jumbled, would this me a major a 7th chord??

low e string-5th fret
a string-7th fret
d string-6th fret
g string-6th fret

???
#7
Quote by -themask-
i dno im on the crusade lessons i think its just a major a 7th...

k so if the notes can be jumbled, would this me a major a 7th chord??

low e string-5th fret
a string-7th fret
d string-6th fret
g string-6th fret

???

Yeah, that would be a major major (Major) 7th chord. A Major triad with a major 3rd stacked on top of it.
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#8
Quote by Artemis Entreri
Yeah, that would be a major major (Major) 7th chord. A Major triad with a major 3rd stacked on top of it.

sweet thanks bro,

are there any hand positions you can just memorise for them, or do you needa make them up for every major 7th chord?

also, for the b major 7th chord would the notes be, b-d-f#-a??

thanks a ton!
#9
I don't know really about positions. I hate using 7ths on guitar. I only really use them on piano.

and B D# F# A. For a Major 7th, take a major triad and stack a major 3rd on top. C is easy.

(C E G)
(C major chord) [7th note in C scale]

Edit: I mean B D# F# A.
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Last edited by Artemis Entreri at Oct 18, 2008,
#10
Quote by Artemis Entreri
I don't know really about positions. I hate using 7ths on guitar. I only really use them on piano.

and B D# F# A#. For a Major 7th, take a major triad and stack a major 3rd on top. C is easy.

C E G B

Thanks bro, and so would this following chord be a B major 7th?

a string-2nd fret
d string-4th fret
g string-2nd fret
b string-3rd fret

(last time I'll ask, I just want to make sure I'm getting the hang of this you know?)
#11
Quote by -themask-
Thanks bro, and so would this following chord be a B major 7th?

a string-2nd fret B
d string-4th fret F#
g string-2nd fret A
b string-3rd fret D <- you need a D#, so make that 4th fret.

(last time I'll ask, I just want to make sure I'm getting the hang of this you know?)



Up^
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#12
Ahh, one way to remember it, is take chords you know, find the octaves, and just play it flat. So:

4
6
5
6
4
-

There you have a C#M7, notice how it's just a C#M chord with the octave flattened?

I will add it also works with major chords with the root on the E.

5
5
6
6
7
5

AMaj7. And it sounds quite nice.
Last edited by Regression at Oct 18, 2008,
#13
Quote by Artemis Entreri
Up^

hmm i thought the note was d? cuz theres no d# in the a major scale right?
#14
It's only relative to the chord, you don't use the scale you are writing with.

If you want to make a Bmaj7 chord, take the Bmaj scale.

The 1, 3, 5 and 7th of that scale form a Bmaj7. A B7 would contain a minor 7, although the standard 1, 3 & 5, and a Bm7 would have 1, b3, 5 & a b7.
#15
Oh and there is a D# in the A major scale.

Edit: Cross that. No there is not.

Although, if you are using the lydian or locrian modes. Hmm.
Last edited by Regression at Oct 18, 2008,
#16
Yeah, Regression's got it...except for the D# in the A major (ionian) scale
It's cool though. Listen to him for the chord shapes too.
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#17
Quote by Artemis Entreri
Yeah, Regression's got it...except for the D# in the A major (ionian) scale
It's cool though. Listen to him for the chord shapes too.

o ok because the way im learning (brand new to theory) is with the crusade thing, and so far we're just on triad chords, and now building a 4th note for the 7th.

im trying to take it slow and master each step before moving on so i don't really want to do any other 7th paterns besides this type... (4 note etc)
#18
Quote by Artemis Entreri
Yeah, Regression's got it...except for the D# in the A major (ionian) scale
It's cool though. Listen to him for the chord shapes too.


Hey I edited.. ...
#19
Quote by -themask-
o ok because the way im learning (brand new to theory) is with the crusade thing, and so far we're just on triad chords, and now building a 4th note for the 7th.

im trying to take it slow and master each step before moving on so i don't really want to do any other 7th paterns besides this type... (4 note etc)


Okay, I assume you know your major scale?

Just to be easy, C Major.

C D E F G A B

A major 7 chord consists of the 1, 3, 5 and 7, therefore, C E G & B.

A 7th chord consists of 1, 3, 5 and b7, therefore, C E G & Bb.

A minor 7 chord (minors have a b3) consists of 1, b3, 5, b7 (minor 7) therefore it's C Eb G & Bb.

Unless it's like a 9 or 11 chord or something then it will only consist of 4 notes. You might play more on the guitar, but these will simply be the same notes in different places.
Last edited by Regression at Oct 19, 2008,
#21
Lol, it's really irritating. Key signatures are the work of the devil.

Especially on piano, or when trying to read music in general, gahhh. C#/bmaj and A#/bmin... =\
#22
Quote by Regression
Okay, I assume you know your major scale?

Just to be easy, C Major.

C D E F G A B

A major 7 chord consists of the 1, 3, 5 and 7, therefore, C E G & B.

A 7th chord consists of 1, 3, 5 and b7, therefore, C E G & Bb.

A minor 7 chord (minors have a b3) consists of 1, b3, 5, b7 (minor 7) therefore it's C Eb G & Bb.

Unless it's like a 9 or 11 chord or something then it will only consist of 4 notes. You might play more on the guitar, but these will simply be the same notes in different places.


k well the way hes teaching us is like, the first chord of any major scale is major, second is minor, third is minor,4th is major,5th is major, 6th is minor, 7th is half diminished.

so like if we have an a major scale, the first chord wud be a major, the second would be b minor, the third c# minor etc... and same applies for 7th chords
#23
Yes, that is correct. I'm not sure if it's easiest to form the chords using the scale you are looking at but if looking at forming the chord in general I use the maj scale of whatever the root is. So the 5th in the A Maj is E. It would be an E maj, and say we wanted to make it a 7th chord, it would be Emaj7, so 4#'s (F#, C#, G# & D#).

Therefore the chord will be E G# B D#. (Emaj7)

Edit:
D# not F# sorry. Ignore this edit, I've fixed the original post.
Last edited by Regression at Oct 19, 2008,
#24
Quote by Regression
Okay, I assume you know your major scale?

Just to be easy, C Major.

C D E F G A B

A major 7 chord consists of the 1, 3, 5 and 7, therefore, C E G & B.

A 7th chord consists of 1, 3, 5 and b7, therefore, C E G & Bb.

A minor 7 chord (minors have a b3) consists of 1, b3, 5, b7 (minor 7) therefore it's C Eb G & Bb.

Unless it's like a 9 or 11 chord or something then it will only consist of 4 notes. You might play more on the guitar, but these will simply be the same notes in different places.


k well the way hes teaching us is like, the first chord of any major scale is major, second is minor, third is minor,4th is major,5th is major, 6th is minor, 7th is half diminished.

so like if we have an a major scale, the first chord wud be a major, the second would be b minor, the third c# minor etc... and same applies for 7th chords
#25
Quote by Regression
Okay, I assume you know your major scale?

Just to be easy, C Major.

C D E F G A B

A major 7 chord consists of the 1, 3, 5 and 7, therefore, C E G & B.

A 7th chord consists of 1, 3, 5 and b7, therefore, C E G & Bb.

A minor 7 chord (minors have a b3) consists of 1, b3, 5, b7 (minor 7) therefore it's C Eb G & Bb.

Unless it's like a 9 or 11 chord or something then it will only consist of 4 notes. You might play more on the guitar, but these will simply be the same notes in different places.


k well the way hes teaching us is like, the first chord of any major scale is major, second is minor, third is minor,4th is major,5th is major, 6th is minor, 7th is half diminished.

so like if we have an a major scale, the first chord wud be a major, the second would be b minor, the third c# minor etc... and same applies for 7th chords
#28
Okay, well that's how I go about forming chords, and it's useful if you aren't sure of the paticular scale you are working in.
#29
Quote by Regression
Lol, it's really irritating. Key signatures are the work of the devil.

Especially on piano, or when trying to read music in general, gahhh. C#/bmaj and A#/bmin... =\



C#/bmaj ? that doesnt make any sense to me.. wouldnt it just be C maj...???
#30
Quote by slayerfrk
C#/bmaj ? that doesnt make any sense to me.. wouldnt it just be C maj...???


Lol, sorry I typed it in a very misleading way.

C# maj and Cbmaj.

Same applies to the A#/bmin.